You DON'T want to ever see mages be healers and I'll tell you why.

[Polarthief]

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Divine_magic

I wasn't saying it ISN'T divine magic, I just wouldn't call it that. Seems weird to me to be like "ooh look, I'm using the power of nature or water to heal you, but it's actually divine as fuck".

Regardless, I don't see why Time would have to be "divine". We already have Alter Time and we had Temporal Shield, both of which involved rewinding the player back in time to before they had wounds inflicted on them. It would just take that concept and put it in the form of a target. Here's a tidbit of lore you could throw in there:

"Trying to reverse the effects of the great Theramore Disaster, Mages had discovered that using their power over time had rejuvenated the land around them. Flowers and grass started to sprout back up to its former state. Although they were unsuccessful in bringing back Theramore to its former glory, they had experimented with the effects of Time Magic for medicinal and healing purposes and had discovered they could rewind wounds that were inflicted on their allies."

Boom. This lore writes itself. Now I just need to mention "Orcs" a thousand more times and Metzen might hire me.

[Brianjosel]

That would be good and all if the hybrid tax didn't exist. Druids have been the best in role several times across all expansions. Like in WOTLK when almost all specs were incredibly strong throughout, except maybe cat but I don't remember that well.

Cat was top tier dps in Wotlk. Boomkin was meh, but everyone brought one for the critical magic buff.

[Polarthief]

Cat was top tier dps in Wotlk. Boomkin was meh, but everyone brought one for the critical magic buff.

And Boomkins were pretty OP in BRF. So much for Hybrid Tax still existing :X

PS: If we're talking raw single-target, standstill, DPS, Arcane Mage is an obvious outlier to the rest of the classes/specs because that the one thing it does amazing at.

[Brianjosel]

That's just wrong. There have been several times druid specs had been in nerfed states.

Every class has been in a nerfed state at some time. Feral was extremely strong in Wrath, easily up there with the pures, especially on any fight that didn't involve target switching.

By the end of Wrath fire was one of the highest damage specs in the game. However, Shadowmourne fury warriors were notably above them in damage output, and they are a hybrid last i checked. Even when the hybrid tax was being theoretically enforced, it didn't always work out that way.

[Wilderness]

Who are all these supposed people demanding that mages be given a healer spec that you felt the need to start this thread?

[Polarthief]

Who are all these supposed people demanding that mages be given a healer spec that you felt the need to start this thread?

I wasn't ever "demanding", but I would like a healing Mage spec, though more in the form of a 4th spec. However, with Hunters now getting a Melee spec (in the form of Survival), other specs might change.

[Obelisk Kai]

I wasn't ever "demanding", but I would like a healing Mage spec, though more in the form of a 4th spec. However, with Hunters now getting a Melee spec (in the form of Survival), other specs might change.

I am certainly holding out hope even if it is likely a forlorn one.

When i made a Mage nearly ten years ago I thought not having another role was cool.

And I LOVE my Mage, don't get me wrong, but what I have learned is that having three ranged specs isn't fun.

We each have our preferences among those specs, but we have been compelled by the vagaries of Blizzard's whims again and again to spec not the one we love but the one that deals the most damage.

For the four pures this has been complicated by the fact that we were truly homogenized, all ranged specs or all melee.

Hunters are FINALLY getting the monotony broken somewhat with survival becoming melee. Now hunters can decide to be melee or ranged. Yes, if they are ranged they'll still have to choose between MM and BM for top damage but if they want to melee and not be ranged they have an option.

So why not us?

Why not Mages?

Arcane works right now but let's be blunt, it has never been anyone's favorite spec. How many iterations has it gone through over the years until they finally got it working in Mists of Pandaria.

And each time Arcane became top what was the reaction of Mages? A groan. We endured Arcane.

Now we loved fire, fire was fun. Fire was fun because of the flaws which have doomed it, it's insane scaling every expansion that tended to leave virtually everyone else in the dust and the incessant swings of the nerf bat needed to control it. But fire isn't perfect either. It is archaic. And combustion is the worst of our three major cooldowns, you need an addon to get the best out of it.

Ironically I think our best designed spec is Frost. Frost flows so well, has a nice meaty rotation and some cool visuals. It is a JOY to play, although our class trinket in HFC actually threatens to clunkafy the rotation if I can coin a word.

Stripped away, all our specs are filler, proc and cooldown.

And for the longest time Blizzard has tried to pretty them up.

But if they are TRULY serious about this de-homogenization...if they are looking at a critical eye at all specs then MAYBE, just MAYBE they will do something radical with Mages.

Maybe they will accept that the three variations of the same basic rotation on the same character, and all in competition with each other is not good for that class, not anymore.

Maybe they will take the decision that ONE of those specs should be something new. Something different.

Until they inevitably crush my hopes that they will do something new however, I can dream.

[Wilderness]

I wasn't ever "demanding", but I would like a healing Mage spec, though more in the form of a 4th spec. However, with Hunters now getting a Melee spec (in the form of Survival), other specs might change.

If they add 4th specs, then mages would need to have a tank or healer spec. 4 dps specs would be a nightmare. Healer makes the most sense in that case. But that's a rather specific scenario, the whole topic here just seems really unnecessary.

[Polarthief]

I just want to see fire be the go to spec for an entire expansion. Let arcane be an afterthought and have frost shine in PvP like always.

I don't want a "go to" spec. I like having options of at LEAST two. I never want to be forced to play Arcane again, so I also never want others to feel that way about Fire and Frost.

PS: I love Frost as a PvE spec. Let's not hope it just becomes the PvP spec, as we don't have enough classes/specs that actually deal Frost Damage (Frost DK is the only other one. I don't count Shadow Priest since it's just Mind Spike that deals half-Frost).

If they add 4th specs, then mages would need to have a tank or healer spec. 4 dps specs would be a nightmare. Healer makes the most sense in that case. But that's a rather specific scenario, the whole topic here just seems really unnecessary.

I must have said it 100 times now, but if 4th specs ever become a thing, pures will cease to exist, I 100% guarantee you this.

[Obelisk Kai]

I just want to see fire be the go to spec for an entire expansion. Let arcane be an afterthought and have frost shine in PvP like always.

The fact we can think like that just shows what a failure our three variants on the same basic idea specs are.

[LocNess]

Who are all these supposed people demanding that mages be given a healer spec that you felt the need to start this thread?

I do see the idea of "time magic" to heal allies crop up every now and then. I personally oppose it, but those pebbles are in the quarry here and there.

[Polarthief]

The fact we can think like that just shows what a failure our three variants on the same basic idea specs are.

It proves how archaic and bland Mage spec variance is right now. It really is just different colors and a niche bonus.

[Obelisk Kai]

It proves how archaic and bland Mage spec variance is right now. It really is just different colors and a niche bonus.

If Blizzard IS doing a drastic class overhaul then I think a single spec from each of the pures should be sacrificed to become something meaningful and different.

Hunters have already had this happen. They are still pure dps, but melee dps vs ranged is some much needed flavour.

Rogues should have a ranged spec and I think some are already agitating for it on their forums.

And there are already rumors about Demonology for Warlocks...MAYBE it'll become the tanking spec they've always longed for?

As for us...I say turn Arcane into a time healing spec, make frost our single target spec and then build fire into our cleave dps spec. That way we remove the most annoying of our three dps specs and make our two remaining dps specs have viable, meaty roles.

Edit: I know there are Arcane Mage lovers out there but it's the clearly the least loved of our dps specs. Managing a mana bar is not fun and neither fire or frost lend themselves to a conversion.

However we all know this is likely pie in the sky stuff. Blizzard would never be so brave.

[Imnick]

I don't think it shows that at all, it just shows that one person has a favourite spec and doesn't trust Blizzard's ability to allow it to compete.

"I want [my spec of choice] to be top so people won't look down on me" is something people will say regardless of how different the specs are.

Mage specs are in a healthy place in terms of homogenisation. each feels distinct from the others which is not at all true of hunters. We don't need and won't be getting a hunter-style spec revamp, we are likely to only see some new talents, a new spell, a couple of tweaks for frost and arcane and hopefully a few slightly deeper changes to fire.
No spec is going to change its role or identity significantly, they don't need to.


And no, there are no "rumours" about demo (or if they are then they have already been debunked). Blizzard said explicitly in the same interview announcing Melee survival that demo warlocks are going to become summon focused, stepping further Away from any dream of metamorphosis tanking (which you may notice has now become its own class).

[Obelisk Kai]

I don't think it shows that at all, it just shows that one person has a favourite spec and doesn't trust Blizzard's ability to allow it to compete.

"I want [my spec of choice] to be top so people won't look down on me" is something people will say regardless of how different the specs are.

Mage specs are in a healthy place in terms of homogenisation. each feels distinct from the others which is not at all true of hunters. We don't need and won't be getting a hunter-style spec revamp, we are likely to only see some new talents, a new spell, a couple of tweaks for frost and arcane and hopefully a few slightly deeper changes to fire.
No spec is going to change its role or identity significantly, they don't need to.

Yet that is subjective.

Do we truly NEED three ranged dps specs, all built around a filler nuke, proc and a cooldown?

It's a design that wouldn't survive today.

However be in no doubt. I believe you are correct and that what you suggest we will get, is in fact what we will get.

But for a brief period of time we can hope right?

[Imnick]

It's a design that would survive today because it is the design of every currently existing ranged caster, including the most recently designed revamped warlock specs.

The three specs cannot simply be boiled down to the same rotation in different colours unless you want to sacrifice all depth and create a straw spec that doesn't exist, hunters could, there is no subjectivity there.

[Polarthief]

It's a design that would survive today because it is the design of every currently existing ranged caster, including the most recently designed revamped warlock specs.

Malefic Grasp as a filler says hi. Not saying it's not on every other caster spec, but it's still not there for Affliction, and Boomkins technically have two filler nukes.

Regardless, all 3 Mage specs still feel too same-y.
- Filler Nuke (ABl, FB, FrB)
- Procs (AM, Pyro, IL/FFB)
- Occasional extra button (ABarr, IB, Water Jet)
- One cooldown, usually used to line up everything else (AP, Comb, IV)

I mean, just look at the pattern there. Do all 3 specs really need their entire rotation essentially being the same?

"Okay then, Polarthief, what is so different about other classes?" A LOT, ACTUALLY! Have you ever played a Rogue or Ret Paladin? They use a point system that has you building up to a bigger attack rather than hoping by pure RNG that you get some procs. Sure, RNG may influence it (such as getting an extra Combo Point as a Rogue, or getting Divine Purpose procs as a Ret Paladin), but they still have a system that has you changing, on top of having procs, extra buttons, and usually more than one cooldown.

"And yet both Ret and Rogue are the same in that it has combo points" Alright, so let's look at Enhancement Shaman. It uses a priority system of a few things: Stacking up proc for Maelstrom to cast a free/instant spell, multiple smaller cooldowns (Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Shocks, and any new shit they got since I played one), and they have quite a bit going on there, as well as multiple cooldowns. Looking at ranged specifically, how about Elemental? They have a DoT to keep up, a filler nuke, a proc that, if it doesn't proc, you can still cast the spell (e.g., Pyroblast that's still worth casting even if it doesn't proc), an extra, ramping up, ability (Earth Shock with Fulmination), and a totem. Or how about Boomkin? Two dots, two fillers (moon/sunfire), two extra buttons (star/sunfall), cooldowns, and a proc that's like Shaman in that you want to cast it on cooldown or when it procs (which is a much better system than "proc only").

Just for some examples.

[Imnick]

So if they made Fireball into a channelled spell that would solve your identity problems? The mind boggles.
It's a filler you cast while the other things you need to hit come back on, it's no different to our fillers.

[Polarthief]

So if they made Fireball into a channelled spell that would solve your identity problems? The mind boggles.

I was referring to "filler nuke", because I wouldn't consider MG as a "nuke", but nvm. Stupid jokes aside, they could definitely make Mages feel less same-y because right now, they feel incredibly same-y. Maybe give one of them a less proc, more priority system like Shamans (both Ele/Enh), and give another a point system like Rogues and Ret Paladins. There simply needs to be something different because the ENTIRE class right now is Filler, Proc, Extra, Cooldown.

[Imnick]

It really isn't that way Polarthief, I don't know what level you are playing them at but the rotations for Frost and Arcane aren't at all similar... can't talk for Fire because I haven't used it for a couple patches but I imagine it can't be that close either.

If you use your procs on cooldown as a Arcane you are doing it wrong, your filler is arguably your most important spell (but not sustainable alone) and your main "extra" CD spell absolutely shouldn't be cast on cooldown because it will rest your charges. Talent choice diversifies it further by changing up the number of procs and doughs of your burn phase.

Frost is all about rapidly firing off procs on cooldown, and it has a wealth of procs. Arcane isn't really about procs at all, it is a priority list and it's very much more about cycles and shifting gears on the fly than hitting buttons as they light up. Frost has a lot of tinier knobs to turn and jumps more frequently between spells (with the constant blasting of icicles adding to the rapid feel), Arcane is about maintaining an equilibrium while pushing it as far as you can dare.
Last time I played Fire it was much more ponderous than the other specs and similarly there was more to it than just hitting procs the second they appeared (you never get the full potential of Ignite that way) but recent changes and set bonuses could have changed that.