Difficulty curve question

[Brianmage]

So, wondering what I can expect from heroic Xhul/Trant/Mannorath.

On Thursday, we spent (2hours on socr, which I find unfortunate because this was a very easy boss, however we did have 2 tanks who never did the fight before). Then 40 minutes on Zakuun.

Any chance on clearing 12/13 HC on Monday? I think Xhul will be tough. Tyrant will be 3-4 pulls, and Mannorath will be a 1shot.

[MaronKun]

Tyrant will cause more problems than Xhul and Mannoroth due to the test for your dps and healers.

[Deleted]

Xhul and mannoroth are eazy, velhari its a bit more difficult. Its a lot about having proper tactics tho.

[Brianmage]

Xhul and mannoroth are eazy, velhari its a bit more difficult. Its a lot about having proper tactics tho.

Any specific tips on Tyrant that you can recommend? We usually spread p1, stack p2, and send debuffs to a different stack point.

[Crewsix]

Any specific one you can recommend? We usually spread p1, stack p2, and send rebuffs to a different stack point.

Tryant isn't that hard tactic wise...Every vid/guide will tell you to do the same thing. It is really all about how fast your DPS can push out of phase 2 (70%-40%). The quicker you can do that the easier the fight will be. Make sure to only interrupt that add in p2 and tell everyone to burn boss, pop lust, 2nd pots cds etc. to get out of that phase.

P3 isn't that hard and you will start to get a stacking damage buff anyway

[Brianmage]

Tryant isn't that hard tactic wise...Every vid/guide will tell you to do the same thing. It is really all about how fast your DPS can push out of phase 2 (70%-40%). The quicker you can do that the easier the fight will be. Make sure to only interrupt that add in p2 and tell everyone to burn boss, pop lust, 2nd pots cds etc. to get out of that phase.

P3 isn't that hard and you will start to get a stacking damage buff anyway

Thanks! Will do

[ThePants999]

Mannoroth is not hard, but took us more pulls than we would have liked cos it's so easy to fuck up. Too many deaths to a variety of silly things, even though we had the tactics right after a pull or two. I wouldn't count on a one-shot.

[Vaerys]

My raid group is weird.
We're 10/13 heroic, but have killed Tyrant and Mannoroth. (we used a pug's skip for Manno).
1st Tyrant kill we downed in 9 attempts.
2nd Tyrant kill we downed in 2 attempts.
1st Mannoroth kill we downed in 6 attempts.
We have yet to put attempts in on Fel Lord or Xhul, but will be devoting Sunday's progression to them.
The other guilds on our server at the same progression have all killed Fel Lord and Xhul.

[madmonarch]

Didn't want to create new topic so I'll ask here.

Who's tougher and who's simpler - normal Archi, heroic Zakuun or heroic Velhari?

[Deleted]

Didn't want to create new topic so I'll ask here.

Who's tougher and who's simpler - normal Archi, heroic Zakuun or heroic Velhari?

With a bigger raid group archi is easy. Zakuun and archi are on the same level with groups under 14 people. Velhari is just a dps check. If you get to phase 2 pre min 2, you have the dps for the boss and should be easy going. mechanic wise the easiest boss.

[Fleckens]

Didn't want to create new topic so I'll ask here.

Who's tougher and who's simpler - normal Archi, heroic Zakuun or heroic Velhari?

Heroic velhari might require a bit higher numbers than normal archi, but other than that i'd say it's easier. Heroic fel lord is a short fight with only a few mechanics, so pretty easy to learn, but a single person can cause a wipe if they don't do things right.

[Nitros14]

I don't understand why people stack for Velhari heroic phase 2. It's just tons of needless cleave on the raid from the corrupted blasts. Seems like it's just a lot more healing for no reason. Maybe that's why everyone seems to find it harder than Mannoroth?

We've always spread out 5 yards close to the boss, collapse for edicts, have the fonts go to a stack point and move out when their font ends.

Now on mythic where the movement aura still exists I get it entirely.

Who's tougher and who's simpler - normal Archi, heroic Zakuun or heroic Velhari?

Heroic Zakuun is an idiot check and the easiest of the three if people understand what to do with seeds and latent energy.

Normal Archimonde is mechanically and strategy wise more challenging than Heroic Velhari, but Velhari probably has a higher DPS check. We took longer on Archimonde.

Re: OP Mannoroth heroic is tougher than you might think just due to the raid damage in the final phase if your DPS isn't on point.

[nephzor]

I don't understand why people stack for Velhari heroic phase 2. It's just tons of needless cleave on the raid from the corrupted blasts. Seems like it's just a lot more healing for no reason. Maybe that's why everyone seems to find it harder than Mannoroth?

We've always spread out 5 yards close to the boss, collapse for edicts, have the fonts go to a stack point and move out when their font ends.

Now on mythic where the movement aura still exists I get it entirely.



Heroic Zakuun is an idiot check and the easiest of the three if people understand what to do with seeds and latent energy.

Normal Archimonde is mechanically and strategy wise more challenging than Heroic Velhari, but Velhari probably has a higher DPS check. We took longer on Archimonde.

Re: OP Mannoroth heroic is tougher than you might think just due to the raid damage in the final phase if your DPS isn't on point.

You only take corrupted blast damage if people with font or your tanks are stacked up with the group, you usually have 1 stack point for the raid and 1 stack point for font since people with font are immune to corrupted blast. The raid only take damage from edict which stacking up helps alot to make sure everyone soak it, also easier for aoe heal.

Mannoroth isnt that hard tbh, all it comes down to, is people soaking gaze, killing imps/infernals, not getting pushed/feared off the platform, and moving for hellstorm/fel seeker. Also last phase dps check isnt that hard, lust + cd's + ring if you have it and the boss will just melt.

[Vaerys]

Didn't want to create new topic so I'll ask here.

Who's tougher and who's simpler - normal Archi, heroic Zakuun or heroic Velhari?

My raid's pull count for first kills:


Normal Archimonde: 3 pulls, wipes at 81% and 26%, granted we didn't even work on him until we were overgeared with heroic loot

Heroic Tyrant Velhari, 9 pulls, wipes at 67%, 49%, 44%, 61%, 73%, 72%, 22%, 39%
Heroic Fel Lord Zakuun, 6 pulls, wipes at 58%, 56%, 55%, 7%, 2%, got the kill with a single iceblocked mage left alive with water elemental dealing the kill shot
Heroic Xhul'horac, 4 pulls, wipes at 15%, 30%, 8%
Heroic Archimonde, 2 pulls, no kills, 75% and 73%, still progressing

[Nitros14]

You only take corrupted blast damage if people with font or your tanks are stacked up with the group, you usually have 1 stack point for the raid and 1 stack point for font since people with font are immune to corrupted blast. The raid only take damage from edict which stacking up helps alot to make sure everyone soak it, also easier for aoe heal.

Someone is misunderstanding the mechanic here and I'm not sure it's me.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=180533/tainted-shadows Crushes a player with dark magic, inflicting 92500 to 102000 Shadow damage and triggering a Corrupted Blast.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=180534/corrupted-blast Players struck by Tainted Shadows additionally inflict 83505 to 92296 Shadow damage to players within 5 yds.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=180526/font-of-corruption Curse random players with dark power, causing subsequent casts of Tainted Shadows to additionally strike the Font of Corruption targets. Provides immunity to Corrupted Blast.

Yes, font of corruption players generate a corrupted blast but only because they're additionally struck by tainted shadows.

The initial tainted shadows target (1 player) also generates a corrupted blast. Now you could either have it hit that single player by spreading out 5 yards or stack up and have it hit every single person in the raid not font'd, including melee who'd normally never get hit. You're turning spot healing one person for 90,000 damage into aoe healing half the raid for 90,000 damage.

Unless I've got it all wrong?

[nephzor]

Someone is misunderstanding the mechanic here and I'm not sure it's me.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=180533/tainted-shadows Crushes a player with dark magic, inflicting 92500 to 102000 Shadow damage and triggering a Corrupted Blast.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=180534/corrupted-blast Players struck by Tainted Shadows additionally inflict 83505 to 92296 Shadow damage to players within 5 yds.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=180526/font-of-corruption Curse random players with dark power, causing subsequent casts of Tainted Shadows to additionally strike the Font of Corruption targets. Provides immunity to Corrupted Blast.

Yes, font of corruption players generate a corrupted blast but only because they're additionally struck by tainted shadows.

The initial tainted shadows target (1 player) also generates a corrupted blast. Now you could either have it hit that single player by spreading out 5 yards or stack up and have it hit every single person in the raid not font'd, including melee who'd normally never get hit. You're turning spot healing one person for 90,000 damage into aoe healing the half the raid for 90,000 damage.

Unless I've got it all wrong?

The tank is getting the initial hit, so unless your tank is stacked up no damage from that. Tyrant casts tainted shadow on the tank and also to every player with font, so if your group is stacked up and wiping to corrupted blast it's either the tank or someone with font killing your raid

[Nitros14]

The tank is getting the initial hit, so unless your tank is stacked up no damage from that

That makes sense, thanks!

The dungeon journal didn't say anything about it targeting her current target, so I assumed random player.

[madmonarch]

Many thanks. Killed Zakuun yesterday with 21 pulls. Yes, we have plenty of idiots