Legion: How to Fix WW by Balance & Venruki

[Sickjen]

THE SAD STATE OF WINDWALKERS IN WOD
To keep this topic relevant on the blizzard forums if you find yourself agreeing up vote the official post.

Re-post from: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/18300188992
Balance & Venruki have weighed in on the issues plaguing our class. If you haven't seen this post on the official forums i suggest you check it out.

ToK = Touch of Karma /// BoP = Hand of Protection /// ToD = Touch of Death
SEF = Storm, Earth, and Fire /// RSK: Rising Sun Kick /// FoF = Fists of Fury

http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/30...lance-venruki/
I would highly recommend reading this post on arenajunkies because it has much better formatting which makes reading so much easier.

Let me start off this post by thanking Venruki, his dedication towards the monk class is very inspiring and this post wouldn't be here without him.

The main purpose of this post isn't to tell a dev what to do. It's here to tell you guys - the reader's - what to complain about because changes in WoW aren't made by single complaints, if they see an issue being brought up enough times they will be more likely to make that change.

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Now I know many of you have no intentions of reading all of this so I took the time to roughly explain this post in my stream and highlight it.

>>>>>>>>> http://www.twitch.tv/balancerexxar/v/10001120 <<<<<<<<<<<<<

Glyphs: 0-3:27

Touch of Karma: 3:27-7:05

Damage: 7:49-26:32

Mobility: 26:32-32:34

TLDW: Changes I want to see going into Legion - 32:50-37:52

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As for the textual post, since many of you are lazy like I am and don't want to watch, listen, or read - here are just a FEW of the many potential solutions that could be made to benefit our class so that it is designed properly.

Now, these changes will all make MUCH more sense if you actually read the post or watch the VoD explaining what is wrong so don't jump to any conclusions.

There are so many solutions to these problems you could go any direction and still accomplish the same goal. I'm not saying any of these solutions are the right ones, I'm simply giving a few of many possible solutions while explaining the major issue with these concepts.
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/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ SOLUTIONS /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
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Mobility: Windwalkers lost our glove bonus, Spinning Fire Blossom, and an easy way to cast our Fists of Fury, all have contributed to Windwalker's poor OFFENSIVE mobility, we can run away fairly easily but if someone is running from you - good luck catching them. Not to mention disable; the worst slow any melee has.

Solutions: Make a Glyph of Disable that removes the root but takes it off the GCD. Another option would to simply make it off the GCD without a glyph. Making Glyph of Freedom Roll baseline, or making it so when we roll through somebody it slows them similar to Flying Serpent Kick, or combining Disable into Jab. The solutions are endless, any would do.
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Glyphs: Our old set bonus in MoP along with our glove set bonus were turned into glyphs when we already had 3 irreplaceable glyphs, this had a severe impact on WW monks mobility and ability to easily use FoF.

Solutions: Make Glyph of Touch of Karma baseline, possibly Touch of Death, possibly Freedom Roll, and depending on the change to Fists of Fury, possibly make that a 5 yard range baseline as well. There are so many solutions to this problem you could go any direction and still accomplish the same goal.

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Touch of Karma: It can be removed lickity split by any paladin in arena by using Hand of Protection, a minor cooldown that completely negates our most valuable one. I don't believe this is intended or balanced in any way and it has been ignored for two expansions now.

Solutions: Don't make it physical, thereby making it so you cannot BoP it, or if you do BoP it, transfer the remaining absorption into a shield for the monk. Another solution could be making some glyph baseline and adding a glyph that makes it so ToK no longer does damage but instead is purely an absorb effect. There are countless solutions that could work, one just needs to be implemented.

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Chi Explosion: Weak damage > Forced to take it because of our 4 set > Forced to use 4 set because of lack of passive defensives for Windwalkers > Forced to use it because of range because we are sacrificing mobility because of Chi Torpedo.

Solutions: Now there are many ways to approach fixing this, you can A. Increase it's damage (assuming you follow the other solutions for the other problems) B. Buff the other talents to increase their stack generation (for example: whenever you use hurricane strikes you gain X stacks of Tigereye Brew).

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Chi Torpedo: Does too much damage and makes us sacrifice defensive and offensive mobility and is poorly designed.

Solution: Take the damage out of Chi Torpedo and put it into something else like Rising Sun Kick or Chi Explosion (or Blackout Kick)

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Fists of Fury: Is too hard to land and can easily be shut down resulting in massive damage loss.

Solutions: Give us a 5 yard CAST range, not the cone range that the glyph gives, allow us to be able to use it further away. Also reduce it's damage and increase damage in other abilities that won't get completely shut down because of a charge or a typhoon.

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Storm, Earth, and Fire: The problem is that it gives a false sense of damage and pressure. Monks who do respectable damage in PvE don't do respectable damage in PvP, just because monks may seem like they are in a good place in PvE doesn't come close to show how they are doing in PvP as we have seen from the start of the expansion (top of PvE, bottom of PvP)

Solution: Reduce the damage the clones do and increase damage in spells like Chi Explosion, Blackout Kick, and Rising Sun Kick.

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Multistrike: It is poo poo garbage for PvP and monks have been designed around it. (Battle Trance and Tiger Strikes)

Solution: Relocate these damage increasing passives and buffs into something that profits PvP as much as it does PvE. Or make it that multistrike works the same in PvP as PvE specifically for the WW class.
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/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ PROBLEMS /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

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[li]Now, if you are curious about any of these changes or need an explanation, I would highly recommend watching the stream highlight for a vocal and visual explanation, if not here is the text brought to you by Venruki with assistance from myself.[/li]

There's been many posts about WW Monks and some of the problems they face. I'd like to represent the class from a very unbiased standpoint and bring to your attention why they're so bad, and hopefully some relatively EASY ways to fix them. This is going to be a long post but I'd really appreciate your input and feedback.

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Glyphs

The problem: Two absolutely necessary glyphs needed to PvP - Glyph of Touch of Karma and Glyph of Touch of Death. Without these glyphs these abilities feel INCREDIBLY jenky to use in PvP combat. Without the Glyph of TOK we'd struggle to use our main defensive cooldown unless we were within melee range of our target. Without the Glyph of TOD it's near impossible to land a target to 10% and have 3 chi left over before they're quickly brought up in HP.

This has been a huge problem this expansion for WW Monks. WW monks had two key PvP set bonuses removed transitioning into this expansion. The first is "Freedom Roll", this was a crucial part of our mobility kit and we can no longer afford to take it. The second being Glyph of Flying Fists, increasing the range on Fists of Fury from melee range to 5 yards.

WW monks need glyph slots opened up and these glyphs need to be added into the abilities baseline. I feel a change like this would have almost no negative impact on PvE and could possibly save the class in PvP.

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Touch of Karma

The problem: Blessing of Protection removes my defensive ability, why? This was sort of a cool counter-play back in the day when holy paladins weren't running rampant. Unfortunately, now they are... and it's a little silly that a healer's minor defensive ability completely renders my main defensive 100% useless. Used to be a little scarier for a paladin to just BoP all of my Karmas because of 45 second forbearance, now it seems like it's worth it 9 times out of 10 and because of that my defensives on an already fragile class is at an all time low.

I'd like for mages and paladins to keep the ability to bubble/ice block ToK because the cost of using those abilities if high enough to justify removing my main defensive cooldown. However, BoP needs to not remove it anymore.

A Very common theme in arena is Holy Paladin/Mage, they can either bubble or iceblock it as well as being able to BoP it, so if I want the slightest chance of keeping my karma I can only use my defensive on one target with the minuscule chance my Karma won't be removed which it almost always does.

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Damage

Where to begin on this large list of problems... How about we start with our basic abilities?

In PvP we are almost exclusively using Chi Explosion because it provides us with ranged damage and the ability to increase stack generation through its 3+ bonus.

Why is it exclusive? What's wrong with Hurricane Strike or Serenity? Well you see, monks have been notoriously known for being "squishy", but with a change to our 4 set which allows a 6% damage reduction per stack consumed for 20 seconds helped with that issue, but it created another one in the process.

Without Chi Explosion, we are squishy, we are squishy because without Chi Explosion, our stack regeneration is drastically reduced, and without stacks, we do less healing, and take more damage. Simple as that.

So what's the issue? What's wrong with Chi Explosion? Well it does doodoo damage.

Our 4 stack Chi Explosion, get this - we spend 90 energy, almost a FULL energy bar to do a BIG Chi Explosion! It still does less than 1 Chi Torpedo.

This brings us to Chi Torpedo, our MOBILITY spell that we are FORCED to use as a damage spell.

Our hardest hitting ability is our roll. This seems unintended or if it was it is a major design flaw and significantly cripples Windwalkers in PvP for these reasons:

1. Sacrificing "rolls" aka Chi Torpedoes - requires us to jump and roll, so that we don't go flying off of our target, but what if our target isn't right next to us? Targets do not stand still in PvP, therefore by making us use Chi Torpedo for damage, we don't get to use it for it's intended purpose - mobility.

2. Mobility is key to PvP both defensively and offensively, being able to reach our target to do damage is crucial for obvious reasons, and defensively for being able to roll to safer positions or to kite.

Now that I've explained a little bit about our damage and how it relates to mobility, let's talk about Fists of Fury.

In MoP, FoF did not require a target to use, in combination with our 2 set (increased range by 5 yards) this gave us the ability to use fists of fury at a longer range.

For example, this is what Fists of Fury looked like in Mists of Pandaria. Let each underscore represent 1 yard.

Me _ _ Target _ _ _

(this allowed my target to be in any of the 5 yards available to my Fists)

In Warlords this is what it looks like:

Me Target _ _ _ _ _

(assuming you have the glyph on which you don't 90% of the time so in reality it looks like this)

Me Target _

Now (even with the glyph) you MUST be in melee range, even if you have the glyph, it is still difficult to land - a lot of the time I find myself pressing W for a second, pressing fists of fury to test if I'm in range only to find out that I'm not even though I can use all my other melee abilities. And every time I test if I can finally get it off, I lose a little bit of distance standing still.

Now that I've address the underlying problem with Fists of Fury, I'll address it's concept. It's a CHANNELED spell. Transitioning from MoP to WoD, the percentage of damage we do in small windows was drastically transferred into our FoF, instead of FoF being a minor damage boost, it is crucial to get as much damage out of it as you can in PvP.

So why is this a problem? It's hard to land and it's channeled.

Even with the amount of CC that was removed in WoD, there is still plenty to disrupt this damage, some favorites that seem to push my buttons are typhoon, explosive trap, the Warrior's charge talent (Warbringer), all of these cancel our fists of fury effectively shutting us down.

And we're not done yet, we still need to talk about our favorite crutch - Storm, Earth, and Fire.

This ability was made for PvE and has no place in PvP whatsoever. If you try to use this ability in PvP (which you are kind of forced to do sometimes) you will find that it is extremely clunky and obviously not meant to be used in a PvP environment. But why not? Here's why:

Mobility: They don't have any, they just walk, any class you put it on can easily kite it, don't even bother using it unless your specced chi explosion because chances are it will be out of range when you use your RSK or Blackout Kick and it won't even copy it.

Damage: In PvP unless you are specifically trying to kill multiple people, it is bad to split targets. This only really makes it good for a comp like Windwalker Affliction warlock, but if you look at comps like WLS, MLS, RLS, all these comps involve the affliction lock doing the spread pressure with the assistance of the other DPS's single target damage to focus pressure on to one target. With WWLS, you end up with minor pressure on multiple targets leaving you vulnerable from a confident and offensive team laughing at your futile attempts to kill them.

So the solution? Hopefully in the next expansion this ability will be removed, but for now I think a simple change of reducing the damage of the clone to make the total damage increase of using SEF so that single target and AoE aren't so widely separated in how much damage they are doing because if you compare windwalker single target to windwalker AoE, the difference is ridiculous.

And finally, the simplest problem of all. Multistrike.

What a lot of people forget is that multistrike is HALVED in PvP. When you make a class revolve around something that is halved you can't expect similar success in both situations which are PvE and PvP. Battle Trance and Tiger Strike's are bad for PvP because multistrike is bad for PvP. The only solution to fix this would be to reduce or eliminate how much multistrike we get from Battle Trance and Tiger Strikes and relocate this damage into something else.

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Mobility/Snares

WW monks disable is the worst snare of any melee.

WW disable: On global cooldown (absolutely affects your damage rotation), 15 energy cost.

Rogue Crip Poison: Automatically applies on auto attacks. (doesn't affect your damage rotation)

Warrior Hamstring: Off global cooldown (doesn't affect your damage rotation), 10 rage

Feral Infected Wounds: Applies off your attacks (doesn't affect your damage rotation)

Ret Seal of Justice: Automatically applies on auto attacks. (doesn't affect your damage rotation)

Enhance Frost Shock and Frostbrand: 25 yard range on shock and frost brand auto applies on auto attacks. (doesn't affect your damage rotation)

DK Chillblains and Chains of Ice: Chains of Ice 30 yard range, costs a global and a rune. Chillblains is easy to keep up as it's a main part of your damage rotation to keep frost fever up. (doesn't affect your damage rotation)

WW's are the only class that have to use an extra global to apply a snare to a target. I'm sure that doesn't seem like a big deal but in an ever evolving world of freedoms, power shifting, root breaks, snare breaks and much much more. Having to use the extra global to apply your snare makes us much easier to kite than other classes.

WW's also took a huge hit losing spinning fire blossom, one of our only ways to catch a target running in a straight line away from us. Essentially our ranged snared was removed and it made it that much easier to get away from us. Major issue with this is our uptime on many targets is limited to only stuns.

These issues in combination with freedom roll being taken away from creates a huge issue where WW's uptime is far lower than many other melee.

I just want to conclude this post by saying I love the WW class. The design of the class is amazing they just took an ENORMOUS hit in mobility, snares and damage which ultimately lead to one of, if not the worst class of the expansion. Please send help, SoS.

I had Balance (Steven) help me come up with and write this post.

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And that, is the work of Venruki and I. Please feel free to comment on anything you agree or disagree with but keep in mind - these are not all the solutions we want, these are just possibly solutions because almost all of them are related to each other so whatever solution there is for one thing will change the solution for another.

This was a comment on this very same forum post. The more you read this post the more i think you'll find yourself agreeing.

I find current WOD WWers are trying to be so many different things. the design is all over the place.

we are cleave monsters, but our single target is average to bad. and we have to be an entirely different talent build to make either work. on a fight by fight basis in raiding that's fine, because you can change on the fly. but say im swapping from aoeing down mobs in tanaan doing dailies to being jumped by someone in world pvp my options are so limited. I can fight back to an extent, but ill basically be crushed.

if a rogue gets jumped: BOS spam, vanish, gouge+blind, and escape.
a feral gets jumped: lol powershift and away. also disgustingly high amount of passive self healing. and I do mean disgustingly high self passive healing.

a WWer has flying serpent kick, and that's about it. as the ONLY melee hybrid with no passive proc for an instant cast heal, and the fact paralysis only lasts 4 seconds in pvp ( and breaks on any dmg, hello chi-ex dot ), and the fact even with TEB surging mists heals for next to nothing, it becomes a compounded issue of not being able to keep ourselves up. ive had times in raid where passive aoe is going out, and due to having not enough throughput on our casted heal, I cant even keep myself up. the throughput on surging mists severely needs to be addressed for the energy cost, the cast time needs to go so we can cast it on the move ( but keep its current heal value ), the energy cost needs to go down, we need a reliable way to proc instant cast surging mists, healing orbs need to come back, or something else entirely needs to happen. any one of these situations needs to happen because my iLv 605 shammy passively outheals my iLv 704 WWer. as does my feral. hell even my hunter passively outheals my monk.

chi-torpedo needs to be addressed. what does blizzard want it to be? are we supposed to continue * jump shooting * chi-torpedo as a way of doing some actual dmg instantly in pvp? because its my heaviest hitting move for a button press. does blizzard want to buff and make amendments to RJW and xuen to actually balance them. for a 3 min CD, xuen is extremely lacklustre and unless its a single target fight I always feel in the back of my mind id be better off taking chi-torpedo for damage. where does that leave it as our mobility though? I can go celerity-torpedo and jump shoot 3 torps into something for free cleave damage. our clones don't copy torpedo which is disappointing so cant copy it. I have FSK but on high mobility its impact is restricted. RJW needs serious love. it was by far my favourite of the 3 back in MOP, but we plan just do not have the energy regen to keep it up like we did in the past, it isn't affected by our SCK perk. it doesn't do any more damage than SCK, its just plain useless. in pvp I like that chi-torp is a big heavy hitter on burst when I need it, but what if you have been kited for an hour by a mage/hunter, or you are feared to the other side of the map? then what, you get to your target and start tickling them with your 3k jabs, 12k RSKs and 1k tiger palms? I want times to lay the smack down, but the duel problem of chi-torp being our mobility move and our heaviest hitting move don't go hand in hand. I want to use it for mobility, I also want to use it to nuke people because the rest of our damage kit is so lacklustre. I feel like im in a lose lose situation with chi-torpedo. imagine if charge or burst of speed was warrior and rogues hardest hitting attacks, that's what it feels like.

theres still button bloat for WWers. blizz pruned things they shouldn't have and kept things they shouldn't have. blizz can roll disable into tiger palm or jab and delete disable. take it off of the GCD and take combo-breaker: tiger palm and change it into combo-breaker: rising sun kick. sparring needs to make a return. it was a great passive way to keep WWers in a fight. against casters we can use our kit to get around, but against the other melee we get crushed. hunters are a massive problem, but they are a massive problem for everybody. hunters have wayyyyyyyyy to many tools at there disposal to keep you away and to get them away from you. that's a whole other discussion. tiger power needs to get gone and be rolled in baseline. paladins lost inquisition, but WWers for some reason kept tiger power. the ability graphic for tiger palm is cool, and its got a cool sound effect, that's why I think they should just morph disable into tiger palm and call it a day.

WWers thematically are supposed to be a brawler. they are the martial artist bar fighter who shrugs off hits and stays in the fight being elusive and nimble. think Jackie chan in the legend of drunkenmaster. im fine with having weaker healing if passively we can stay in a bar fight longer. the problem is we need to run away so much because we cant go toe to toe with anyone. add to the fact our healing when we get away is so weak, and we have to use 75% of our mobility toolkit for dps, what does that leave us with? hell we cant even use our primary defensive without casting it on another player. I like the identity and the idea of touch of karma, but the fact it is 100% mandatory with the glyph for it to have any real function in ANY content means WWers are immediately at a 33% disadvantage when compared to other classes. healing orbs allowed us to stay mobile and on target and pop out heals when we needed them. it kept us zippy and on the move and kept us in the fight. having to stop, plant, and heal with pathetic heals just takes us out of the spec. paladins, ferals, enhance they all get instant ways to keep healthy in a fight. we just don't get that.

I can get into the nitty gritty like the fact we have near no group synergy for organised pvp and bring almost nothing to the table other than passive short ranged run speed. I can get into the fact fists of fury is one of the most singularly frustrating abilities to land in the entire game for near no pay off when you do manage to land it. if you landed it with the right set up in MOP it was devastating, that's why people used to save there defensives for it to get away, there was that threat to WWers people had to keep an eye out for. that doesn't exist in WOD WWers toolkit anymore. our mastery is so godawful and it being designed around RNG just makes it even worse.

its frustrating you know blizzard? the spec was so insanely fun in MOP, and such an ineventful pain to play in WOD. the monk stylistically and visually is so great to play, just mechanically there is so much at play that just makes it feel like such a mess. dmg delivery is tedious and a lot of our damage is in the wrong areas. we are balanced around SE+F and the rest of the spec suffers for it. our healing is bad. we have to use our mobility moves for burst. our defensives are tied to offensives and require glyphs to actually function properly. we have annoying to maintain abilities still in the game when other classes had theres pruned. half of our talents are just awful and completely useless. the list goes on.

heres hoping to a total revamp and a resurrection of MOP level gameplay and fun for the spec in Legion.

Stop treating windwalkers as your side chick blizz!

[rolledx]

"just because monks may seem like they are in a good place in PvE"

If only we were good at atleast one

[Shibito]

"just because monks may seem like they are in a good place in PvE"

If only we were good at atleast one

Good place in pve? Gimme a break....

[Kaharon]

"just because monks may seem like they are in a good place in PvE"

If only we were good at atleast one

You being bad does not mean monks are bad right now. WW monks are pretty strong in PvE right now, maybe even the strongest spec overall in HFC.

[Shibito]

You being bad does not mean monks are bad right now. WW monks are pretty strong in PvE right now, maybe even the strongest spec overall in HFC.

Yea yea we are bad you are good jerk.

[Krazzorx]

I could see them making a PVP talent that makes FoF a truly ranged attack. Maybe, have it shoot out chi bursts at them. Sort of like Barrage.

[Fraky]

WW monks need glyph slots opened up and these glyphs need to be added into the abilities baseline. I feel a change like this would have almost no negative impact on PvE and could possibly save the class in PvP.

I would like to step into that statement. The Glyph of Touch of Death built-in would be a huge dps loss in the current style of bosses with many targets to touch in a fight, especially with Soul Capacitator and the legendary ring procc. Other than that I agree with the post.

I hope the monk will get some much needed love in pvp so that we can enjoy the overhauled pvp system and talents

[Deleted]

Yea yea we are bad you are good jerk.

We are far from bad: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#dataset=100
And if you actually exclude first 5 bosses that are pretty much padfests now, We are the best spec DPSwise with some "okayish" utility (solo soaks, 5 sec stun, transcendance).

[Deleted]

chi torpedo truly bad design, and the ability looks like shit.

do many classes have defensive pvp setbonuses?

[Deleted]

It seems like all of this pve talents vs. pvp talents issues won't exist in the expansion, since they decided to completly diferenciate pve and pvp costumization on your class, so it will probably be fixed, no worries needed.

[Deleted]

Storm, Earth, and Fire: The problem is that it gives a false sense of damage and pressure. Monks who do respectable damage in PvE don't do respectable damage in PvP, just because monks may seem like they are in a good place in PvE doesn't come close to show how they are doing in PvP as we have seen from the start of the expansion (top of PvE, bottom of PvP)

Solution: Reduce the damage the clones do and increase damage in spells like Chi Explosion, Blackout Kick, and Rising Sun Kick.

What the actual F*CK?!

Monks are in a decent place in PVE. Ofcourse this comes down to skill and how to utilize your munks full potential. But to actually remove SEF is out of the question. It's one of the things that's special about us and are great when you master it. I agree that SEF could be enhanced but not removed...

All in all, this post focuses to much around PVP than PvE. Which Legion is going to try and fix anyways...

[Sickjen]

What the actual F*CK?!

Monks are in a decent place in PVE. Ofcourse this comes down to skill and how to utilize your munks full potential. But to actually remove SEF is out of the question. It's one of the things that's special about us and are great when you master it. I agree that SEF could be enhanced but not removed...

All in all, this post focuses to much around PVP than PvE. Which Legion is going to try and fix anyways...

Well here is the issue we are having. SEF is taken into account when doing damage in PVE making them balance around it for PVP. Most of the balancing issues we've been having this expansion was because of balancing around SEF.

Monks PVP rotation from MOP to WOD is drastically different. It was almost unheard of to use SEF in a pvp match in 5.4 in 6.2 our entire rotation is based off of it which doesn't support good gameplay because of the medicore damage it does.

Legion is going to focus on PVP changes however the monk community doesn't need to be shafted in pvp for yet another expansion, Some people already feel as the demon hunter is going to take our spots because of how clunky we are at the moment.

chi torpedo truly bad design, and the ability looks like shit.

do many classes have defensive pvp setbonuses?

*Cough* 100% Karma set bonus is a joke. They nerfed karma in 6.0 then gave us it back in a set bonus... Blizzard logic right there.
Chi Torpedo is by far the worst for windwalkers... putting mobility into our #1 hardest hitting spell is so idiotic.

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to step into that statement. The Glyph of Touch of Death built-in would be a huge dps loss in the current style of bosses with many targets to touch in a fight, especially with Soul Capacitator and the legendary ring procc. Other than that I agree with the post.

I hope the monk will get some much needed love in pvp so that we can enjoy the overhauled pvp system and talents

I agree with this however i think what he may have been leaning towards is removing the 3 chi requirement and leaving the cool down as it is with 3 chi requirement. If you think about it touch of death should really cost energy not resource, it is an execute after all & setting up 3 resources for a ToD in PVP is fairly stupid. ToD is one of the hardest executes to use in pvp period.

I could see them making a PVP talent that makes FoF a truly ranged attack. Maybe, have it shoot out chi bursts at them. Sort of like Barrage.

That would be very interesting actually, Even baking it into flying fist.. we lose the stun but gain a ranged attack.

[Helander]

Good place in pve? Gimme a break....

We are in a good place in pve in 6.2, as long as you have your 4 set and class trinket, and a good weapon. T.T

[Azelias]

Two words: PVP Talents

/end topic...

But in all seriousness, there are some areas in both PvE and PvP that WW could really get some assistance with in legion, but at this point I'm personally planning on jumping ship to Demon Hunter. They'll have to do an amazing job with WW if they want to keep me playing it in Legion.