5 man Dungeons to Easy?

[Deleted]

Do you guys remember the Patch 4.1 Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub 5man dungeons?

They were considered HARD dungeons trash packs that if you didn’t kill the scout in time you would get a wave of powerful guards to challenge you.
Bosses were hard on the healers, dps had to move from abilities or they would die or be close to death.

Yes, it could be frustrating at times on last boss in Zul’Gurub,
if you had a clueless player getting targeted by the shattering jump to break the chains and this player didn’t move to the chain.
But this is what made those players beter and I must say I really enjoyed the content,

Its engaging content. You have to Defeat the boss rather then do your dummy rotation to get loot.
and it inspired teamplay with friends more. If you wanted to avoid the random newbs you queued with your friend.
I think blizzard needs to go back to the harder 5m content and set that as the standard for dungeons.

[Pull My Finger]

I think that most players massively overestimate the significance of difficulty, and think and talk about it way too much. It's way more important that content is genuinely fun and interesting and intelligently tied in the bigger picture of the game.

[Sansnom]

Its engaging content. You have to Defeat the boss rather then do your dummy rotation to get loot.
and it inspired teamplay with friends more. If you wanted to avoid the random newbs you queued with your friend.
I think blizzard needs to go back to the harder 5m content and set that as the standard for dungeons.

I think you just solved your problem. If you want to avoid random "newbs", as you put it, queue with your friends. As you said, you want inspired teamplay with FRIENDS.

In a random dungeon group, you take your chances. Harder content eventually will become easy and many players does not tolerate failures in a dungeon that they have ran 20+ times. It will be new to some but not to them. For them, they have raised their minimum standard and expect others to have done the same.

[Deleted]

I think you just solved your problem. If you want to avoid random "newbs", as you put it, queue with your friends. .

i think you missed the whole point ..... i dont want to avoid the random newbs. i want content/ encounters to be less pasive and making them harder wil make every1 sit up straight and actualy interact with the ecounter and PLAY. rather then yolo nuke til health = 0

on all the fights with current dungeons you can chainpull a whole wing with the boss and aoe them down without missing any boss mechanics. its not that u get to a boss setup and go for the kill.

[oldgeezer]

i think you missed the whole point ..... i dont want to avoid the random newbs. i want content/ encounters to be less pasive and making them harder wil make every1 sit up straight and actualy interact with the ecounter and PLAY. rather then yolo nuke til health = 0

The solution is blindingly simple.

Keep dungeons as they are, but unequip your gear when you run them with your friends. You can make it as hard as you like then.

[randomnamegenerator16]

Difficulty from 4.0 dungeons needs to be back. It WASN'T high, apart from maybe 2 or 3 encounters. It was adequate. You could not just faceroll dungeons, but if you had at least half of brain you could complete them without wipes.

[Moxal]

Nope. IMO, the only thing wrong with WoD's dungeons is the small number of them and their lack of relevance after we start to raid.

Timewalking helps a little bit with the first part and Mythics help with the second. Still not ideal though.

[Noxina]

The problem with dungeons is that they get irrelevant the second we start to get raid gear, and thus outgear it. And then we just rush through it like its no deal.

[Pull My Finger]

Yeah. WoD dungeons were good. There's just not enough of them and they lack any form of lasting relevance.

[Fynzie]

The solution is blindingly simple.

Keep dungeons as they are, but unequip your gear when you run them with your friends. You can make it as hard as you like then.

Yeah, why do we have 4 raiding difficulties then ? every guild could progress through LFR with 300ilvl for it to be challenging

[Deleted]

I prefer 5-mans over raiding because of the smaller scale, there aren't 70000 spelleffects all over the place etc. but I don't nessecarily think making them more difficult solves what's wrong with them.

The issue is that they're basically just a stepping stone to get into raiding, and also the fact that they're over in like 5 minutes, and part of that is difficulty, yes, and making the dungeons harder would help, but the other part is layout, dungeons are so streamlined, if you compare Blackrocks Depths with Grimrail Depot you'd immediately see the difference. BRD is perhaps a bit too confusing and time consuming but it's more interesting than for instance Everbloom in my opinion.

The rewards they give are another reason why they're abandoned because there's no incentive to go back to them when you've outgeared them, unless you really like that one machinegun fight in Grimrail Depot or what have you.

[Sonnillon]

All content gets easier with gear. Even the dreaded Zul's were easy if your group had the gear.

But in all honesty I wouldn't say that WoD's dungeons are easy. When you end up in a group with low output overall, then you will struggle as much - take the bosses in Burial grounds as an example. WoD's dungeons are perfect for the initial gear-level they are meant to be run with.

Well as you probably have noticed Blizz has oriented warcraft towards wider variety of people, more to the "casual once per week players" who play for fun. If you would make content too challenging people would loose interest. And in all fairness, even if the dungeon would be a challenge with bit of raid gear you will loose the point in running the dungeons as well - getting back to the same point where you can faceroll on keyboard and still kill everything, cause heck - those don't give you any upgrades.

Well Mythic dungeons and heck challenge mode even were created for people to have more challenge and something to work through to get stuff. And challenge modes are a challenge, with the scaled down gear and bit of prep needed to get gold.

[jimlow]

I don't think I ever had a successful run with the ZA dungeon when it was current. Having harder dungeons does nothing for the game besides exclude more people from possibly getting gear. 4.0 dungeons when executed properly while people had a minimum amount of experience and gear could be done. However that's not how it goes. You get people cheesing the ilvel requirement with pvp gear. Or you sit in que for over an hour only to get in and have the tank see "OH NO Stonecore" and drops group then healer drops group and your back to sitting in que for another hour.

trying to form groups from trade chat is even worse. You always get stuck waiting for a tank or a healer and when you do get one sometimes they arnt geared enough, skilled enough, only need a certain boss, ect, ect.

guilds don't help eaither, many times a tank isn't on or a healer isn't on. or people dont have a tank or healer spec or if they do they dont have gear for it because its not a primary spec. Then when you do get on you have to court the tank to do the damn dungeons.

It is a utter waste of time. I much prefer to have easy dungeons that I can pug with randoms. I never want to form a group again for a dungeon.

[Rioo]

The Zul dungeons were tuned for higher gear levels. Of course they're harder, just like MgT and the 3 ICC dungeons were. The WoD ones were really good for their intended ilvl, second only to the release Cataclysm ones pre-nerf.

[Alroxas]

Its engaging content.... If you wanted to avoid the random newbs you queued with your friend.
I think blizzard needs to go back to the harder 5m content and set that as the standard for dungeons.

So what about Mythic dungeons and CM dungeons? Are they not "challenging" content? You can't even queue for them, you have to preform the group and enter instances.

[Alleji]

Ever since mythic raids were introduced, I was hoping they would rebalance dungeons like this:

Normal - leveling dungeons. Don't make normal max-level dungeons, more variety for leveling plz.

Heroic - max level dungeons. Moderately difficult for fresh 100s, faceroll after that. Drops pre-raid gear, on par or slightly better than LFR.

Mythic - hard mode dungeons. Virtually impossible for pre-raid players, challenging for normal raid-geared players. Drops slightly better than normal raid gear (lower than heroic).


Seeing how we finally got mythic dungeons in 6.2, here's hoping that Legion will be something along these lines.

[franto]

Nope, current 5-man were OK when they was introduced. If you want to compare them with ZA/ZG, try compare current mythic versions, because you already overgeared heroics.

[Jotaux]

As people get gear the dungeons become significantly easier. Back in Wrath the starting heroics were not extremely hard but difficult enough you were picky about who you brought. Near the end of the expansion they were so easy everyone remembers them as being a joke. In BC the heroics stayed hard because they were more difficult than raids and not many played them as a result.

[deadman1]

Difficulty doesn't matter if the rewards are bad. To be honest it makes it more of a chore if content is too hard for the rewards.

[Krom2040]

The problem with dungeons is that they get irrelevant the second we start to get raid gear, and thus outgear it. And then we just rush through it like its no deal.

This is the central issue of all 5-man content. There is vanishingly little encounter content in this game that isn't obsoleted fairly quickly by gear, and of course Blizzard has determined that the best gear should come from raids. So every time new content is released, there's a flood of people in high-end raid gear who pipe up on forums "LOL EVERYTHING IS SO EASY THIS IS DUMB", ostensibly unaware that it's a very different experience for people 40 ilvl's lower without super powerful set and legendary bonuses.

One reason why I love challenge modes. Nothing separates the wheat from the chaff like gear normalization. Somebody who's used to jumping into heroics and think they're badass because they're doing 5x the damage of a heroic-geared person can try a challenge mode and find they're doing 30% damage below their optimum. No doubt that gear improvement is the central motivator in a game like WoW and the game should continue to keep that first and foremost, but I still wish there were some way they could edge more normalized gameplay into various areas of the game.