Yet another list of rogue revamp suggestions

[Deleted]

So here's my updated list of ideas to differential the specs. Not hoping for much, I pretty much make one of these threads for each expansion since wotlk.

General:
• All specs can use daggers or swords etc.
• Daggers grant +10 energy cap, per dagger, all specs.
• Preparation removed. All affected abilities instead have 2 charges.
• Lethal poison is Assassinations only.
• Slice and Dice is combat only.
• Burst of speed removed. Sprint now has 15 second cooldown

Assassinations
• Only spec with lethal poisons.
• Assassins resolve increases haste by 40%.
• Deadly poison application grants energy and reduces the cool down of Corrosive poison by 1 second.
• New ability: Throw able Poison vial, 10 second cool down, replaces shiv. Applies Deadly + non-lethal poison to all enemies in the area. Doesn’t break stealth. Also applies magnified shiv effect to affect enemies.
• New Vendetta replacement. Corrosive poison: For the next 15 seconds, each time you apply deadly poison, you also apply corrosive poison and gain 1 combo point. Corrosive poison weakens the target, increasing you deal to the target by 30% and making them visible to you even through concealments such as stealth and invisibility. Cannot be dispelled, lasts for 20 seconds. 120 second cool down.

Combat
• Sinister strike + Revealing strike damage scales up when daggers are used.
• Remove insights/bandits guile crap.
• Redesign slice and dice, now a 2% stacking haste buff, stacking 25 times. Swapping weapons resets the stacking buff. At 50%, a charge of killing spree is gained and slice and dice resets.
• Killing spree charges stack up to 3 times, but doesn't last as long. Slow/slow results in less, but more powerful killing sprees. Fast/fast result in more frequent, but less powerful killing sprees.


Subtlety
• Redesign shadow dance. Now a finishing move with 20 second cool down that replaces kidney shot.
Enter the shadow dance for 1 + 1 per combo point seconds, concealing you from sight and allowing the use of stealth abilities. Whilst shadow dancing, all attacks deal shadow damage and maximum range is increased to 20 yards.
• The whole idea is that sub rogues are basically shadow and melee damage dealers. They're sneaky as fuck and they are the shadows.

[Feali]

* Remove positional requirements.

[Beefkow]

* Remove positional requirements.

I thought they already did that..... (backstep, ambush, etc) or just being sarcastic?

@OP, good suggestions, it makes every spec very unique in their own way.

Sub- Specalizes in stealth and cunning abiities.
Combat- Has pirate-like characterisics in their attacks.
Assassin- Master of poision.

However, keep combat one hander friendly rather having daggers baseline, we're still looking for uniqeness in every spec.

[Wow]

So here's my list of ideas to differential the specs. Not hoping for much, I pretty much make one of these threads for each expansion since wotlk.

General:
• Lethal poison is Assassinations only.
• Slice and Dice is combat only.

The qq this would cause from other classes if sub hit like other classes do they would go mad. As without snd or poisons ability dmg would have to go way up.

But other than that it looks like some nice ideas and all but sub could happen as that would take a lot of work and a lot of work and rogues don't go together at blizzard.

[Feali]

I thought they already did that..... (backstep, ambush, etc) or just being sarcastic?

@OP, good suggestions, it makes every spec very unique in their own way.

Sub- Specalizes in stealth and cunning abiities.
Combat- Has pirate-like characterisics in their attacks.
Assassin- Master of poision.

However, keep combat one hander friendly rather having daggers baseline, we're still looking for uniqeness in every spec.

Backstab is still not unusable from the front. Which makes Sub unplayable solo because Hemo doesn't procc SV.

[Beefkow]

Backstab is still not unusable from the front. Which makes Sub unplayable solo because Hemo doesn't procc SV.

Then that would remove the purpose of BACKstab.

It's stupid, I know.

[Koji2k11]

you can stab someone in the back while being in the front just sayin

[shade3891]

Assassination Poisonmaster (1h dagger + 1h dagger) Hiding in the shadows waiting for its prey, to deal heavy poison damage and dispatching them quickly.

High initial poison burst damage with Envenom. Then mutilate + Blindside Procs for Dispatch
Combopoints removed for this sepc, make it a priority based spec. Give Envenom a (shared*) cooldown.
When not attacking and not getting hit for 10 seconds you automatically drop into stealth.

AoE: Poison Vial

* Cooldown shared with the other finishing moves

Combat pirate/swashbuckler. (1h weapon + gun) Toying with your opponents and when you get bored you finish them off.

Auto-attacks changing depending on range from target. Jump in melee range and start slashing at your target and parry incoming attacks.
Build-up some combopoints then shoot them with your offhand knocking them back a few yards and you finish it with a (finishing) lethal gunshot.
Almost no focus on stealth, besides the stuns & sap, but those could easily be made into a ranged attack and fired with the gun.

AoE: Explosive shot (ranged) / Blade Flurry (melee)

Subtlety as the ninja. (2h katana) The Ninja is all over the place jumping every target is can gets it hands on. Making them bleed!

Fast ranged auto-attacks with Shurikens. Special attacks with a two-handed katana.
Heavily focussed on (physical) bleed damage, all your two-handed abilities cause you to shadowstep behind your target.
Every time you strike with your katana you gain a combopoint at five combopoints you automatically consume them and shadowdance activates.
Allowing use of your Stealth abilities for a brief time. Stealth abilities no longer generate combopoints. When not attacking and not getting hit for 6 seconds you also drop into stealth.

AoE: Fan of Knifes

This should provide lots identity for each specialization!

[Redknot]

I posted some ideas here

Some ideas aren't my own, but most are.

[Cosmophile]

I can't express enough how much I would LOVE to have throwable vials of poison that work like Ravager (or any other targetable AoE ability, really): queue the ability, get the green circle and choose where you throw it. Just...yes. That would be so, SO cool.

[Wow]

I can't express enough how much I would LOVE to have throwable vials of poison that work like Ravager (or any other targetable AoE ability, really): queue the ability, get the green circle and choose where you throw it. Just...yes. That would be so, SO cool.

But that would mean putting effort into rogues and the years they have shown us that's not something they do.

[Hitei]

I made a thing but I don't think it warrants another thread cluttering up the board so I'll post it here.

[Florena]

I made a thing but I don't think it warrants another thread cluttering up the board so I'll post it here.

I wouldn't mind most of these suggestions but these are all pretty minor flavor things and I feel the real problem with rogues now is identity between the specs, and not a lack of overall flavor. It's just that all three specs pretty much have the same flavor.

[Artorius]

I wouldn't mind most of these suggestions but these are all pretty minor flavor things and I feel the real problem with rogues now is identity between the specs, and not a lack of overall flavor. It's just that all three specs pretty much have the same flavor.

For the mechanical problems of the class, his link wouldn't change a thing. For overall fantasy flavor, he has a point.

It's a matter of why people find Rogues uninteresting and underwhelming when they reach caplvl, we lack identity and everything listed there is something "rogueish".

[Feali]

It's just that all three specs pretty much have the same flavor.

Which is none. Flavor is non-existent for Rogues.
Name one important Rogue lore figure except Garona.

[Deleted]

Very nice suggestion but still lack a big differentiation, to me I would create an hybrid class.
Pirate=Half tank\Half melee. Could parry enemies and also bosses butter a limited amount of time, so could shortly substitute the tank if he needs to be healed. Gun abilities
Ninja=Half melee\Half ranged ability to get stealthed and teleported far from the boss and starts to use Shurikens/Bow, get stealthed and teleported on the back of the enemy. Less resistant to be hit than the other two specs
Poisonmaster=Pure melee, intermediate resistance to be hit, a lot of fancy abilities poison related. Aoe could be used to slow down enemies, to decrease their parry or to DoT, poison to disguise the player as a enemy and not be hit, self healing abilities.

Assassination Poisonmaster (1h dagger + 1h dagger) Hiding in the shadows waiting for its prey, to deal heavy poison damage and dispatching them quickly.

High initial poison burst damage with Envenom. Then mutilate + Blindside Procs for Dispatch
Combopoints removed for this sepc, make it a priority based spec. Give Envenom a (shared*) cooldown.
When not attacking and not getting hit for 10 seconds you automatically drop into stealth.

AoE: Poison Vial

* Cooldown shared with the other finishing moves

Combat pirate/swashbuckler. (1h weapon + gun) Toying with your opponents and when you get bored you finish them off.

Auto-attacks changing depending on range from target. Jump in melee range and start slashing at your target and parry incoming attacks.
Build-up some combopoints then shoot them with your offhand knocking them back a few yards and you finish it with a (finishing) lethal gunshot.
Almost no focus on stealth, besides the stuns & sap, but those could easily be made into a ranged attack and fired with the gun.

AoE: Explosive shot (ranged) / Blade Flurry (melee)

Subtlety as the ninja. (2h katana) The Ninja is all over the place jumping every target is can gets it hands on. Making them bleed!

Fast ranged auto-attacks with Shurikens. Special attacks with a two-handed katana.
Heavily focussed on (physical) bleed damage, all your two-handed abilities cause you to shadowstep behind your target.
Every time you strike with your katana you gain a combopoint at five combopoints you automatically consume them and shadowdance activates.
Allowing use of your Stealth abilities for a brief time. Stealth abilities no longer generate combopoints. When not attacking and not getting hit for 6 seconds you also drop into stealth.

AoE: Fan of Knifes

This should provide lots identity for each specialization!

[Florena]

Which is none. Flavor is non-existent for Rogues.
Name one important Rogue lore figure except Garona.

I don't deny there's a shortage of important rogues in Wow. There also weren't any notable non villain warlocks until the warlock green fire quest chain that weren't villains. SI 7 as a spy/intelligence agency, though not EVERY member is a rogue, has been important. But the lack of rogue npcs and rogues needing their class/spec identity worked on are separate issues.

[Feali]

I don't deny there's a shortage of important rogues in Wow. There also weren't any notable non villain warlocks until the warlock green fire quest chain that weren't villains. SI 7 as a spy/intelligence agency, though not EVERY member is a rogue, has been important. But the lack of rogue npcs and rogues needing their class/spec identity worked on are separate issues.

It's part of the issue but it can be solved without.

[Hitei]

Which is none. Flavor is non-existent for Rogues.
Name one important Rogue lore figure except Garona.

I'd say Crowley is probably a combat rogue.

I wouldn't mind most of these suggestions but these are all pretty minor flavor things and I feel the real problem with rogues now is identity between the specs, and not a lack of overall flavor. It's just that all three specs pretty much have the same flavor.

Yeah, was trying to avoid spec and mechanical suggestions, we have a million of those already.
I disagree with us not having a lack of flavor. Our identity as rogues is barely existent in current form--we sort of pick pocket for 10-20 minutes a week... and that's it. A lot of the thief/rogue identity is non-combat.

[Feali]

I'd say Crowley is probably a combat rogue.

More of a Fury Warrior.