Savage Satchel of Cooperation

[Deleted]

Promoting the DPS typical bad playstyle? You know the DPS > all and blame the healer/tank when you die-playstyle.

If you enter with a 710 in a heroic 5man and die, delete your character. You can practically solo "tank" the 5man with the aid of minor healing.

[Djuntas]

....And for thoes of us who just want to do our heroic 5 man by a whimp, as tank, now sits and wait in queu....Gold/gear care.

I wanted to farm my heirloom quest and pepe lol.

[Deleted]

is this live in eu?

[Shiftyfish]

So its ok that DPS don't get anything and also have to wait in queues? Also whats the point of me rolling a tank, how does that get my mage gear? Laughable solution.

I still laugh that DPS players don't catch on to the fact that incentivizing tanks and healers to do random dungeons for these bags speeds up DPS queues

[Sxq]

I still laugh that DPS players don't catch on to the fact that incentivizing tanks and healers to do random dungeons for these bags speeds up DPS queues

And also that the baleful tokens are boa.... so if you play a healer/tank you can still gear a dps.


Either way, I love these changes. I basically never play my heal spec, but 550 gold + other stuff was enough to incentivize me to at least do one per day as a healer which means quicker queues for everyone.

[Rioo]

You must not play your tanks, or at least not play them well.

A well played tank needs to optimize healing, mob positioning, the damage they take, and their own DPS.

DPS just needs to not stand in stuff and optimize DPS.

I play DPS specs of every tank I play, and while DPS has it's challenges saying that tanking is easier is laughable. Heck, there are even add ons that will light up the next button for you to press for an optimal rotation for most specs.

With all due respect, I've played both feral and guardian since TBC, and spent most of my time in MoP and WoD raiding in a world top 50 guild as both. I've gotten several world rank 1s for feral. I know what I'm talking about. Mob positioning is easy and obvious, especially if you're used to playing a melee DPS. All tanks have a really simple DPS rotation compared to DPS specs. Minimizing the damage taken is also pretty easy.

A good DPS needs to minimize damage taken too. That requires positioning correctly, using defensive CDs, using self-healing if possible (ferals should keep up rejuv on themselves 100% of the time for example and use CW before big damage spikes). The difference is you're not allowed any screw-ups at all. Stuff can actually kill you as a non-tank, and the DPS difference between a bad and good DPS makes a lot bigger difference for raid DPS. When I enter a raid for the first time as a tank I already feel overgeared for a lot of bosses.

All this and I haven't even mentioned yet how tank mechanics on bosses is a lot easier most of the time.

>rerecros

Yes, it's live in EU.

[Deleted]

What are you even arguing about? It quite clear that tanks/healers are in higher demand so why don't you 1: start tanking/healing, 2: write a mail to blizzard explaining how much harder it is to be a damage dealer in dungeons so they need to get a satchel too.

[Deleted]

With all due respect, I've played both feral and guardian since TBC, and spent most of my time in MoP and WoD raiding in a world top 50 guild as both. I've gotten several world rank 1s for feral. I know what I'm talking about.

It's funny that you mention this as if it gives you some sort of authority or superior knowledge on the matter while it does the complete opposite.

[Deleted]

Actually it just make sense to increase it. With the new reputation perma runes, you don't get a lot out of money out of a heroic dungeon. There are a lot of Tanks and Healers who just queue for the satchel. If the satchel isn't worth it anymore, the queuetime increase. Plus side is, you often get overgeared tanks which make the dungeons a joke.

And actually a satchel for a DPS is possible, if there are ever DPS missing to start a group.

[Raiju]

You must not play your tanks, or at least not play them well.

A well played tank needs to optimize healing, mob positioning, the damage they take, and their own DPS.

DPS just needs to not stand in stuff and optimize DPS.

I play DPS specs of every tank I play, and while DPS has it's challenges saying that tanking is easier is laughable. Heck, there are even add ons that will light up the next button for you to press for an optimal rotation for most specs.

In higher content DPS definitely has more to it than tanks (largely because they have a lot less opportunity to minmax dps and less depth to their dps mechanics) - that is only amplified by tank mechanics in raids often being simpler but different to the rest of the raid.

In dungeon content which I guess is the point of the thread - sure tanks/healers are generally more important, but a good player of any role can trivialize a hc for all involved. A dps can make it so tanks/healers have nothing to do, a tank can make it so dps/healers have nothing to do, a healer struggles to replace dps - but can certainly remove the need for a tank.

[Joey Ray III]

heh, seems like the word has spread. every time call to arms pops I get 10min+ (for both tanks and healers). over 20 min now as tank. funny.

[Ehrenpanzer]

So its ok that DPS don't get anything and also have to wait in queues? Also whats the point of me rolling a tank, how does that get my mage gear? Laughable solution.

1) Yes....it is ok... If I had 1 gold for every moron I had to handhold, every time I outdpsed the entire dps team put together or had to sit and explain basic mechanics to people on months old content, I'd be the WoW version of Bill Gates
2) Look up what BoA means...then come back...actually no...dont come back...
3) Still waiting for mount or pets to be put back in them

[Cerus]

With all due respect, I've played both feral and guardian since TBC, and spent most of my time in MoP and WoD raiding in a world top 50 guild as both. I've gotten several world rank 1s for feral. I know what I'm talking about. Mob positioning is easy and obvious, especially if you're used to playing a melee DPS. All tanks have a really simple DPS rotation compared to DPS specs. Minimizing the damage taken is also pretty easy.

A good DPS needs to minimize damage taken too. That requires positioning correctly, using defensive CDs, using self-healing if possible (ferals should keep up rejuv on themselves 100% of the time for example and use CW before big damage spikes). The difference is you're not allowed any screw-ups at all. Stuff can actually kill you as a non-tank, and the DPS difference between a bad and good DPS makes a lot bigger difference for raid DPS. When I enter a raid for the first time as a tank I already feel overgeared for a lot of bosses.

All this and I haven't even mentioned yet how tank mechanics on bosses is a lot easier most of the time.

>rerecros

Yes, it's live in EU.

FYI - guardian didn't exist in TBC and top guilds didn't want ya if you weren't resto back then.

[Killface1]

It's funny that you mention this as if it gives you some sort of authority or superior knowledge on the matter while it does the complete opposite.

You're wrong. When raiding at a top level, dps is significantly more difficult then tanking - the mechanics are much more punishing, the complexity of your button priority is much higher, and the gameplay is much more proactive in figuring out how to plan for what mechanic is coming next, unlike tanking which for the most part is quite reactive.

However, I'm guessing that isn't your point. I'm guessing your point is that dps in a heroic dungeon doesn't matter even a little bit, and that having a basic grasp of how to tank is much more important then having a basic grasp of how to dps. Which is totally true.

[Haloswin]

FYI - guardian didn't exist in TBC and top guilds didn't want ya if you weren't resto back then.

Good job, in your eagerness to be a know-it-all you made yourself look stupid.

Guardians were known as Ferals in BC and my guild cleared Sunwell pre-patch with two Ferals in the raid at all times, one a tank, the other a DPS, because you know those things called battle rezzes were pretty sweet in those days and because well, let's be real... Ret Pallies were a joke and Ferals tended to outperform warriors in those days while offering better utility than rogues and the shammy was there mostly just to buff the rogues. Anyway, last time I checked we were a top 75 guild in those days, so maybe not the very top, but hardly chopped liver.

While the initial response may have been a bit over the top, the response talking up the responsibilities of tanking was as well. It's not BC, threat generation isn't the task it used to be and yet some tanks still can't hold aggro in dungeons. And since the question of positioning was brought up, half the time you run a dungeon the tank positions himself so melee DPS can't get behind the boss or cant DPS unless they are standing in crap.

Yes there are a lot of gawd awful DPS out there -- there are similarly truly horrendous tanks in those queues.... possibly DPS looking for 300 extra gold at the expense of other people.

[infinitemeridian]

Lol anybody saying that tanking is harder than any of the other roles is plain wrong.

Healing > DPS > Tanking

Tanks have the least to think about. Sure, tanks have bigger responsibilities than dps (Arguable), but playing one is definitely one of the easiest things in the game.

Easiest rotation
Don't have to worry about environmental hazards and moving around as much as dps
Less toxicity from other players
Tank mechanics are extremely easy, just require a bit more communication

[PaladinBash]

I think it's a cool idea. I can't be bothered tanking anymore and this won't get me into it but if I was already tanking, fuck yeah good times.

[Yvonnel]

Just spent 20min on que for random as a tank >_<

[Killface1]

Also, to all of the dps complaining about not getting rewards for doing heroic dungeons, but the tanks and healers do, I have a question and its not just me being a dick. Serious question time.

You're obviously not content with sitting in a long wait time to do a dungeon, and then not getting a similar reward to tanks and healers who only had to que a short time. The obvious reason this is happening is because there are way more dps queing for dungeons then there are tanks and healers - in an ideal world, the right balance would occur every time and ques would be sub 5 seconds. However, this balance is not currently in the game, as evidenced by the long wait times in que.

Given that we have this disparity, and a finite pool of people queing for dungeons, what would you do to fix this situation? Would you prefer long que times and everybody getting equal rewards? Or would you prefer blizzard figures out some way to encourage more people to play tank and healer specs instead of dps specs in order to change the proportions of people queing as each job? What would you suggest as an alternative to a big rewards satchel in order to get people to play their tanks and healers instead of their dps?

[Vellithe]

Lol anybody saying that tanking is harder than any of the other roles is plain wrong.

Healing > DPS > Tanking

Tanks have the least to think about. Sure, tanks have bigger responsibilities than dps (Arguable), but playing one is definitely one of the easiest things in the game.

It really depends on what kind of player you are and what kind of content you are doing.

DPS has obviously the lowest bar, it's ridiculously easy to do just "well enough" to succeed as a DPS. Healing difficulty is affected by how bad everyone else is (including the other healers). Tanking probably has the highest entry bar, but becomes the easiest role after that point.

However, when you're taking into account people trying to play perfectly... all roles should be equally difficult. DPS would be getting any other jobs they can do (healing, decreasing damage taken) together with their DPS, healers and tanks will need to do DPS with their roles, too. Anyone who's trying to play perfectly will have no choice but put in 100% of effort, and even then there's always going to be something they could have done better.


For Heroics, though, the only (arguably) hard role would be healers, because every once in a while you'd get a group with three 5k DPS and a clueless, undergeared tank. But at the same time, a lot of tanks in heroics right now can pretty much solo the place, so sometimes healers get to go DPS or just AFK.

Tanking in heroics is definitely the most annoying role, though. Between the low DPS and stupid pulling of needless mobs, you just wish everyone else would just DIE or something.