Do you feel Moonkin was the wrong creature to go with for Balance druids?

[Fearsom1992]

Dryads ;D would be my choice over moonkin -.-

[huth]

yeah.. but that's for the feral forms, that distinction shouldn't hold true for balance or resto

Says who? Other than you, that is. We got that one by now.

[Magistrate]

Yeah but that's just like saying "In the cinematics/etc, no orcs walk with a stupid hunch!".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8XSOKC4iQg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSC69eLjk28

+could go on

[Wildmoon]

yeah.. but that's for the feral forms, that distinction shouldn't hold true for balance or resto - resto already got a tree, changing the animal distinction - and well, who says balance has to be sentient but not sapient? Druids are the master shapeshifters - because of game balance limitations we don't have player druids chanigng other people into animals, something a druid can do, nor do we see that many form options.

Ideally, they'd be able to take the form of whatever they want - but in WoW lore, the form seems to be very specially tied to the discipline. Balance was originally caster only anyway, and now it's gained both moonkin and an astral form - which are cool by me, why not give options for Cenarian, Arrakkoa and maybe even a Drakonid form.

imo, it could add some interesting dimension to balnace druid lore, the forms reperesnting clubs or parties of balance druids. If balance was an entire class you could build specs around the 3 forms. Moonkin form, Astral form and Cenarian form. Each could have an alternative glyph. Moonkin could glyph to Arrakoa, Astral could glyph to a the Malfurion esque humanoid, Cenarian could glyph to Drakonid.

Alternative to Cenarians for Trolls/Tauren who feel the very elven druid class may have a far too elven looking form may instead have Magnataurs for the tauren and Cenataurs for the Trolls while worgen get the quadraped drakonids, or we could give Worgen the Centaurs and Trolls the quadraped drakonids.

Has never been observed in lore. Also, what you are suggesting is too much of a mess for my taste.

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He's an Archdruid who permanently has Moonkin like wings on his arms and generally doesn't conform to normal Druid standards.

That's headcanon. Malfurion never did have to shapeshift into anything to cast both healing and damaging spells even when he was a novice. It's not because that he's powerful so he doesn't have to shapeshift. It's just that most famous druids in lore simply don't shapeshift to cast spells. The dev that introduced moonkin and tree form had no clue about lore and did it because he somehow thought these forms were cool.

[Scottyjscizzle]

Honestly, would be fine with not having a form for balance. Yes Druids are shape-shifters, that does not mean they must be shape-shifted at all times.

[Wildmoon]

I hope for one day that Blizzard will tweak astral form to not be transparent. There should be minor visual indication like sparkling particle of star or something like that but not transparent pls. I would hate to see my artifact being blue all the time.

[huth]

That's headcanon. Malfurion never did have to shapeshift into anything to cast both healing and damaging spells even when he was a novice. It's not because that he's powerful so he doesn't have to shapeshift. It's just that most famous druids in lore simply don't shapeshift to cast spells. The dev that introduced moonkin and tree form had no clue about lore and did it because he somehow thought these forms were cool.

The wings are clearly visible on his model. He regularly does things outside the purview of regular Druids.

That aside, back when Moonkin was introduced there was next to no Druid lore. If anything, it's a failure of the writers, not the dev.

[Wildmoon]

The wings are clearly visible on his model. He regularly does things outside the purview of regular Druids.

That aside, back when Moonkin was introduced there was next to no Druid lore. If anything, it's a failure of the writers, not the dev.

Malfurion didn't always have wings. He does things druid can potentially do. He is not going to heal you with the light nor fire an arcane blast. Also,Malfurion is just an example. All famous druids out there don't shapeshift into moonkin or tree either. Your argument doesn't work.

There was druid lore in both War of the Ancients Trilogy and WarCraft3 when the form was introduced. The dev who introduced it simply had no clue.

[Lillyth]

Never been fan of them. We didnt need them in vanilla either.

[shise]

A druid should never be allowed to permanently look like Cenarius, simply because it is Cenarius!

But it would definitely cool to have another possible option, just like trees have been worked out a bit, do something similar for the "oomkin"

[ravenmoon]

Has never been observed in lore. Also, what you are suggesting is too much of a mess for my taste.

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actually it has, and it makes sense. Able to take a shapeshift form you'd be able to morph someone else. I can understand why they wouldn't do it much though.

To a druid, shapeshift is more than just taking on a form of another, that could even be viewed as a perversion, you're not supposed to turn people into sheep or frogs - it seems very un-night elfy - and such actions are far less involved than what a druid actually does.

They go through a very special process that keeps their faculties in tact in the form and they possess the spirit of the animal too which adds to their skill and function at operating as the creature allowing them to be a master cat or bear off the bet with the cunning intelligence of night elf. As such they are able to speak in a form and communicate.

Compare this to a polymorph or a hex, which just cruelly imposes the form of something on another, forcing them, trapping them, everything limited as its squeezed in, no tact, no finnessee, no respect for nature or the creature. A druid would care about such things and even consider such manipulation abusive.

2 Quests easily indicate this. A mage comes to ashenvale and learns some extra secret from the night elves and uses it to make a rod of transforming to turn a person into a furbolg. This is more than a polymorph, beyond the normal purview of a mage, so hw needs some night elven druidic insight to be able to do that level of transformation. You ofc track the traitor down eventually finding the wizard in the barrens after you've retrieved the rod.

Second quest in Zangarmarsh has the druid head of the Cenarion expedition transform you into storm crow and she telephatically piggybacks on you seeing through your eyes as you survey the swamp looking for what the naga are up to investigate what is happening to the levels of water and what those steam pumps are being used for. Here you see she is clearly able to do so. And it makes sense

How would the masters of shapeshifting not be able to shapeshift others, ofc they would, but why don't they? Well thinking about it can offer some possible explanations like i've just done, it's clear their shapeshifting is a whole other level than those of mages, witch doctor shaman and others, and they can do it to themselves with enhancements of the animal. Plus they seem to have ritual and process that's very careful and sacred tied into it showing a deep level of respect, and this all makes sense.

So it stands to reason that druids really can take the form of anything they want, to what degree they use the form depends on the purpose for which they take it. The game doesn't show everything a druid can do, for e.g. talking to animals, calling animals to aid, and seeing through the eyes of animals are 100 % druidic, but in-game hunters are able to do this, but then the hunter class is a generic representation of the lore, not all hunters are elven marksmen able to shoot arcane arrows, that is something only the night elves could do for e.g. - you can also interpret able to see through an animal is a druidic thing and comes from the night elf hunters and their connection to the druids. Hunters can't really talk to animals, they are more like expert trainers, and their animals are trained to respond to their every command, it is communication but it's not talking Dr Doolittle style which druids can though, but it's in there anyway,

[Wildmoon]

Shapeshifting into human,orc,etc would be pretty convenient if they can but I don't think they really can. My headcanon is there is certain complexity that make races like human,orc,etc very hard or impossible to shift into.

[whywhatwhowhenhow]

No way! Owlkin was the perfect choice and it should never be changed!

[kaid]

I think it would have been better lore-wise if we were just in caster form like Malfurion but a cenarion form sounds epic to me. It seems good lorewise too as keepers of the grove had druidic powers right? If it was implemented though I'd say it would just be cosmetic, even though I don't think any keepers of the grove ever casted spells to do with the sun and moon.

Back to the original question, do I think blizzard should have chosen differently for balance druid? Definitely, but I think it's too late now to change moonkin form because people hate when you give them something and then take it away (ability pruning). It's more the actual spells in balance druid then the form that annoys me though. I'd rather we got more nature related abilities before we got a different form.

The more I think about it the more I think a Cenarion form would suit us. I really like it. You could almost make a new spec out of it! But I guess we have four already. We'd get so much hate if we got another.

They probably should not have gone boomchicken to begin with but at this point I think keep it and just give some glyph options for the current elune stars mode and maybe one where you just have your normal look so you can get the benefits of boomchicken mode but keep your gear clearly visible. If they are going with glyphs being mostly cosmetic then there is plenty of room to do stuff like this.

[Mace]

Shapeshifting into human,orc,etc would be pretty convenient if they can but I don't think they really can. My headcanon is there is certain complexity that make races like human,orc,etc very hard or impossible to shift into.

I'm willing to bet they can.. blizzard just hasn't explored that option yet. Dragons we know shapeshift into the races, it really seems a shapeshifters thing, maybe wow will get to that point. Where one of the threats especially from the night elves, but to a lesser extent tauren/worgen/trolls is the infiltrator in your midst. It is also something I don't thing may be limited to druids.

I can easily see shaman (witch doctor priests )doing a harry potter like thing, of a certain potion/spell that requires something from the person like a hair or blood and you have to drink the polyglut potion and you sort of become the person. Whereas druids physically change their shape, actually - just looking at the person and mimicking them. Mages rather cast an illusion spell, they don't actually become the person, but they look like the person. Priests do a mind trick where your mind thinks they are the person

[Gnarilex]

They probably should not have gone boomchicken to begin with but at this point I think keep it and just give some glyph options for the current elune stars mode and maybe one where you just have your normal look so you can get the benefits of boomchicken mode but keep your gear clearly visible. If they are going with glyphs being mostly cosmetic then there is plenty of room to do stuff like this.

That glyph would require almost zero effort too. Hoping to see it as an option. I'm all for keeping moonkin if there are other options.

[Sunfyre]

We're already sacrificing by having to use Astral form.. I can't flap. :/. I don't mind seeing me as a shapeshift, I just want it to be a decent shapeshift.

[ravenmoon]

well...looks like Astral form is totally gone, i can't stand moonkin form, the new model might be higher rez, but it is nothing worth running home for, and had no change , in like anything.. still has a chicken face instead of an owl face.

and still, don't like the form anyway, I could play balance when i had glyph of stars on, but without it, sorry, goodbye.

[Gnarilex]

well...looks like Astral form is totally gone, i can't stand moonkin form, the new model might be higher rez, but it is nothing worth running home for, and had no change , in like anything.. still has a chicken face instead of an owl face.

and still, don't like the form anyway, I could play balance when i had glyph of stars on, but without it, sorry, goodbye.

Oh you sweet poor thing here take a look at this. There was bunch of commotion earlier about it in another thread.

Definitely been some confusion/miscommunication on this topic. To be clear: we know that some Balance Druid players like being able to play with their character in a normal humanoid form, instead of Moonkin, and removing their ability to do so has never been the plan. We’ve just been considering some different ways to deliver it, and whether or not the blue starry visual has to be tied to it or not.

So, to clear the air a bit, here’s our current plan:

• Glyph of Stars will be a minor glyph for Moonkin Form, which gives it the same Astral Form effect as on live (where you stay in caster form with a blue translucent visual).
• The Blessing of the Ancients buffs will have lunar/solar visuals that apply to your current form (whether it be humanoid or Moonkin).
• We’re still discussing on how the coloring effects will work if you have both Glyph of Stars and Blessing of the Ancients.

Hope that clarifies things!

[Grimdeeds]

I've enjoyed the various playstyles of the Balance druid since about Wotlk, but have always been turned off by the aesthetic of the moonkin form. It's the reason I just cannot make myself stay with the spec.

I like to try to identify with my character in some way, just in my own mind, and I just can't connect with that aesthetic form emotionally other than when I feel like being silly or cute. For me, the form doesn't bring any sense of aesthetic-power or whatever you want to call it.

I don't mean any disrespect to those that love the moonkin model. I just wish Blizzard could have incorporated a bit more time in making the form appear more "battle-functional" if that makes sense? Not so waddling in it's gait and slow-looking and well, chunky. I always thought more of a miniature cenarius form like a grove keeper would be more appropriate for what the form is trying to accomplish. Or even a half-human half-owl form (thinking kind of the way they updated malfurion's form to look like) again I feel would be more sleek and powerful-looking and be more palatable to players who want to feel like their character fits in with the powerful elite of the heroes of WoW. Sorry for the role-play type comments here but this is a subject I've so often wished Blizzard would bring more attention to.

Definitely agree that moonkin form ought to be optional. I understand some people are taken with it, but I find it pretty repulsive myself. I guess I just don't understand what a slow waddling flightless bird has to do with being an arch-mage of nature so to speak. I don't care for the silly-factor it brings, even though as I said I do understand some people enjoy it for various reasons. I almost wish the glyph situation was the opposite of the status quo, where you are default in humanoid form and a minor glyph allows you to play as the moonkin form if it is what you desire, kind of like what they did with the tree form way back when for resto druids.

EDIT: just to add one more thing: Over the years it was common for me to hear people say "don't worry the moonkin form was just a placeholder graphic for the Balance druids, eventually they are going to put in the REAL form which will be something different." Thus, it was particularly kind of a sad moment when I first watched a youtube of Legion alpha and saw the moonkin form had been updated with new textures. It kind of hit home at that moment that the hope I had been harboring that eventually the moonkin "placeholder" model would finally get the fix I thought it needed....was actually a false hope. The moonkin form was, it seems, never a placeholder and was in fact here to stay. Ahh well, C'est la vie !!