" Veteran " (military) status : ?

[AeneasBK]

So? It can be viewed as a very noble profession. Most of Europe should be pretty happy that there were some nations with balls around to keep them from living under Nazi or Soviet rule.

Sure; but if you were, for example, someone who didn't respect the armed forces (which we don't have to go into); then anyone who is part of the armed forces (at least in most of the world) is immediate target for ... w/e, ridicule, disrespect however this manifests. I was simply responding to Xanjoris point about them doing something first before you judge them. They have. They signed up.

[Mayhem]

It doesn't share the same funding. We are quick to fund the war, but even quicker to dispose of the warrior.

Never said it does. Just that it´s ridiculous, you have that amount of money and can´t 'afford' to treat your veterans.

[Theinquisition]

Sure; but if you were, for example, someone who didn't respect the armed forces (which we don't have to go into); then anyone who is part of the armed forces (at least in most of the world) is immediate target for ... w/e, ridicule, disrespect however this manifests. I was simply responding to Xanjoris point about them doing something first before you judge them. They have. They signed up.

Still, you're judging a individual because they are a part of a larger organization? I guess every Occupy protester is a nasty dirty stinky hippy, and every Cowboys fan is delusional.

[Xanjori]

Sure; but if you were, for example, someone who didn't respect the armed forces (which we don't have to go into); then anyone who is part of the armed forces (at least in most of the world) is immediate target for ... w/e, ridicule, disrespect however this manifests. I was simply responding to Xanjoris point about them doing something first before you judge them. They have. They signed up.

And you know what they did while assigned? I mean you wanna judge someone the same that served in Iraq and someone that has only done peace-keeping missions or disaster relief? The military is a big big thing and tackles many different sorts of operations. I mean at this point we just declare all lawyers the scumbags of the universe, regardless of what they're actually doing.

[Theinquisition]

Never said it does. Just that it´s ridiculous, you have that amount of money and can´t 'afford' to treat your veterans.

I'd agree, it is.

[Mayhem]

So? It can be viewed as a very noble profession. Most of Europe should be pretty happy that there were some nations with balls around to keep them from living under Nazi or Soviet rule.

You do understand that argument goes both ways, right? Because of that noble profession most of europe had to endure living under nazi or soviet rule.

[Theinquisition]

You do understand that argument goes both ways, right? Because of that noble profession most of europe had to endure living under nazi or soviet rule.

That is a very valid point. there has to be a ying to every yang I guess.

[Strear]

By extent (a little off topic), I think some " veterans " should get a better bonus in terms of income. Here, when military go on what's called " opex " (external operations), they get a bonus in salary, and their " pension calculation " in terms of time on duty increases. I think grounders should get a better bonus than the other. 90 % of my colleagues are ex-military, mostly fighters pilots (mirage, rafale), some were mechanics on carriers, some warfare operators ... went in Yugoslavia, desert storm, and many African theaters. We had the discussion not so long ago, I told them ground soldiers deserve a better bonus, they often have a lower rank, and a lower pay (all military people get the same bonus one they leave the country, " risk " is general, no matter the " corps " you're in). They mostly disagreed " we're fewer, so we're more kind of precious for the navy, we take risks too, why would they get a better bonus than us ? ". I just replied " In our 1000 last military losses, were there more soldiers, people on ships, fighter pilots, people on rear bases ? " Guys shrugged. Each and every time we hear about losses on TV, except by a plane/helicopter accident which is different, it's about soldiers who drove/walked on a landmine while patrolling, or fighting. Yes, in my mind they deserve

About the psychological issues, I think it's the same in many countries. A veteran fighter (61 now) told me suddenly " You know, I did bad things, I let bombs fall on people ". No psychological support ever happened ... believe me, many had or still have problems with alcohol.

[Deleted]

So? It can be viewed as a very noble profession. Most of Europe should be pretty happy that there were some nations with balls around to keep them from living under Nazi or Soviet rule.

The US procrastinated for two years. During that time its great political dynasties enjoyed good relations with the Nazis, George Herbert Walker Bush built up his family fortune doing deals with Nazis, Joe Kennedy tried to sue for peace.

On my Father's side the Battle Of Britain was effectively over before America entered the war, or more correctly, was forced into it by the Japanese. On my Mother's side Poland was invaded and occupied. Concentration camps were set up. Then the country was sold down the river to the Soviets at Yalta.

The US did very well financially out of these wars. The UK paid off its debt to the US in both world wars only in the last few decades. In the immediate aftermath currency controls on the UK imposed by the US forced the country into a financial crisis. You hear very little about this side of things.

[Puupi]

A Military Veteran - by definition - is a person who has served in the military.

I don't think anyone is talking about military veterans. Or are you in the US? I thought by saying veteran it's exclusively a reference to war veterans. At least in Finland it does. The only word associated with veterans is war. You may have served in the military, but if you didn't go to war ​(which in today's terms would mean war zone), you are not a veteran.

[Strear]

I think as you Puupi, that's why I asked, but he term isn't related to war in USA, in example, but by the fact of serving in the army. There used to be an " expertise " connotation too, but it doesn't seem to exist either (6 months is enough to get the " title ").

[Ghostpanther]

There are several terms for veterans here in the US. For example, you have Vietnam War veterans and Vietnam War Era veterans. Only the first group actually served in Vietnam. There are combat veterans who served while in a combat war zone, such as Korea, Iraq, etc. But anyone serving in the US armed forces are entitled to be called veterans because while they are serving, they may be called to protect their country or serve in a active combat zone. My son served 4 tours in Iraq as a platoon commander in the 82nd Airborne. So he is a Iraq Combat War veteran. Some veteran status does grant special benefits depending on what the veteran did.

[lockedout]

Fact is 23 veterans commit suicide everyday, its a sad staggering number.

Do you think that number is because of what happens during/after you become a soldier or is it the mentality of a person who would join in the first place?

[Mayhem]

Do you think that number is because of what happens during/after you become a soldier or is it the mentality of a person who would join in the first place?

My signature is the answer to your question.

[ItachiZaku]

US label pretty much anything as veteran, might be due to wording in the military framework whatnot. I have no idea.

BT washouts a week in still get veteran status.

Personally, it means you served and were deployed in a conflict/war. Like, I have no respect for the GED having idiot that joined infantry and sat on his ass in German for 4 years, comes home expecting a parade. I do have respect for the dude that wasn't sure what he wanted in life, had nothing tying him down, enlists, gets deployed and then some faggots smash planes into tall buildings and "we" go to war and he has to worry about scorpions in his boots and daily stray bullets.

First one isn't a vet in my eyes. Second one is.

[Deleted]

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. It's not serving in a war zone or having engaged in combat that makes veterans commit suicide, it's coming home and not being able to do it again that does them in.
War is fun.

[ItachiZaku]

Still, you're judging a individual because they are a part of a larger organization? I guess every Occupy protester is a nasty dirty stinky hippy, and every Cowboys fan is delusional.

I try not to do this. Like, I hate the government and the military. That does not mean I want "us" to lose wars or the individuals to have harm come to them. As my people have experienced, and echoed by... lol Magneto...

[Magneto halts the missile barrage and directs it upon the fleet]
Professor Charles Xavier: Erik, you said yourself we're the better men. This is the time to prove it. There are thousands of men on those ships. Good, honest, innocent men! They're just following orders.
Erik Lehnsherr: I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

So, sometimes it's hard to separate the individual from the machine. Yet, i do still have respect for the man (or woman) who will pick up arms and fight for their "country", when it is needed. Really, it is a person by person evaluation.

On the flip side, I do tend to see all politicians as wearing the same suit.

[Archimtiros]

I dunno I care very little for military. Personally feel nurses, doctors, paramedics, firefighters and police deserve more respect than post WWII veterans but apparently people enjoy glorying death more

And this is where the conversation turns...

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I don't think anyone is talking about military veterans. Or are you in the US? I thought by saying veteran it's exclusively a reference to war veterans. At least in Finland it does. The only word associated with veterans is war. You may have served in the military, but if you didn't go to war ​(which in today's terms would mean war zone), you are not a veteran.

This is not true.

I think many people are unfamiliar with what the actual word veteran means. You can be a veteran of anything. The word could be applied to a veteran worker of McDonalds, of a police force or a veteran sports player. It doesn't mean you went to war, it doesn't mean you even served during a time of war. It only means that you served in that occupation.

Of course the most common usage is in referring to military veterans of which the only criteria is (requoting myself from the first page):

The official definition of a Veteran is a person who:
• served in the active military, naval or air service, and
• was discharged or released under conditions other than dishonorable.

The second bullet meaning they have to have left the service in good standing. Not been kicked out on bad terms.

[Strear]

Out of the " went under fire " case, at the end, what annoys me is the idea to be called " veteran " after spending 2 years on your country ground. You'd tell me 8 years, ok, you can consider yourself a veteran in your area of expertise, but a few months or one/two years, that's a joke.

[Raxis]

In my time with the Canadian Armed Forces a lot of the infantry types, both officer and enlisted were obsessed with getting a gold CAB. Now if I remember correctly (it's been about 10 years) that stood for Combat Action Badge where the unit was under direct enemy fire at some point in its mission.

If you had one of these you got serious respect as you had been actually in direct combat where your life was in danger. They also came in a few other colours too I think. Silver and Bronze for differing circumstances but gold was the biggie. They were often called Combat Vets by others.

Being a medic I always scoffed and told the newbies to keep their heads down cause that little gold tab ain't worth getting killed over. No one ever listened.