Are you ok with Enhancement's dps state? - pve

[Deleted]

If you take heavy aoe fights out of the equation, enchancements dps is so laughable I decided to give up on him for HFC. How do you deal with this?

[Purified Squirrel]

Personally I am okay with the state of enhancement Shaman. Numbers can always be tweaked, but as far as gameplay goes I really enjoy it. Simulations have enhancement up there in DPS now since we got our buffs in 6.2.

[Netherbrood]

I like where enhancement is at. i have come to think of them as AOE dps centered spec, so it doesn't bother me too much that their single target dps can be mediocre. I really enjoy playing them, and i find it extremely amusing that i can do up to 3 to 4 times the dps of of the hunters in my guild depending on the size of the pull.

[miffy23]

After hotfixes Enh is not "laughable", no. It was a bit low before, atm it's average on ST.

[Deleted]

i off enhance dps and on some bosses im top 4 so im very pleased. otherwise i dont mind beeing in the middle of the pack.

[Murderdoll]

Numbers wise. Eh its ok. It will be competitive in most scenarios.

Am I fine with their state in how they do their DPS and their "niche" within a raid? No, not by a long shot.

[Deleted]

Yea enhance is doing ok atm even on single target, and doing extremely well on aoe fights.

[withoutaname]

Eh... ever since this expansion started I figure out enh is gonna be the benchmark for DPS. Everyone deserve to be kicked if their dps is lower than mine since my dps isn't all that great.

[Deleted]

Our 2 target cleave is a lot worse compared to other classes. ST we're average.

[Deleted]

Eh... ever since this expansion started I figure out enh is gonna be the benchmark for DPS. Everyone deserve to be kicked if their dps is lower than mine since my dps isn't all that great.

Then u are doing something wrong Enhancement is no where close to last, we are very mid pack and high on aoe cleave fights.

[Murderdoll]

Then u are doing something wrong Enhancement is no where close to last, we are very mid pack and high on aoe cleave fights.

If you read his post. It says when the expansion started.

Up until recently, we were almost dead last on ST unless you are comparing yourself to mouth breather dps.

[Vizslakane]

If we break fight mechanics down to the 5 basic scenarios; Enhancement is well below average.

1. Sustained ST; below average (especially outside of 3 mins).
2. Burst ST; poor (we have too many weak CD's, and no strong burst CD like Ascendance use to be).
3. 2-3 Target Cleave; abysmal
4. Burst AOE; poor (since we have ramp-up time in our AOE rotation).
5. Sustained AOE; strong (problem is sustained AOE losses value as toons gear up, and lack of it in the majority of boss fights).

So with sustained AOE being our only strong point (which losses value), and not bringing any additional utility or survivability, I feel we are not as competitive as most other classes, and could benefit from some fine-tuning.

I love playing my Enhance Shammy, but the one unsatisfying thing about us is that we have nothing anymore in our toolkit to exploit the knowledge of a boss encounter. Whereas other toons, with continual encounter knowledge, can plan their burst ST and burst AOE better, work out better cleaving, and use their raid utility optimally.

I'm not saying we don't improve with encounter knowledge, but because of our lack of "oomph" in items 1-4 above, I feel it doesn't really make that much difference in our damage. I might even go so far to say that as encounter knowledge increases, we look less competitive.

[withoutaname]

Then u are doing something wrong Enhancement is no where close to last, we are very mid pack and high on aoe cleave fights.

Key word here is "BENCHMARK" I never said nor imply we are suppose to be last on the meter. I've been in pug since the start of the expansion. Whenever I'm top three dps we can't kill the boss. It's when I'm i the middle of the pack that gear can be looted. Hence people need to be kicked if they can't beat my dps.

[Knightlax]

I'm okay with the numbers at this point and after the buffs we've received, we are a pretty solid melee class. I'm more concerned with gameplay/feel of the spec at this point. Echo of the Elements make the spec so much smoother and should be a passive, not a talent. I don't like having an entire tier's worth of talents essentially waste. Regardless of numbers/sims, Echo makes the gameplay so much better and to me it's a no brainer to have it baseline.

[Deleted]

I generally feel like we are doing very well. Of course, it all depends on what kind of guild you are in and what you are raiding. For me, we are a small "casual" guild raiding on normal. Most of us are in the 690-705 range, and we are progressing slowly through HFC. While we are a casual raiding guild (one raid night a week), most of our raiders are very competent and know their classes well.

I am currently topping the chats with our DK and our Affliction warlock. There are very few fights where I am even in the middle or below it - most of the time it would be due to poor performance on my part. I am also the raid leader, so sometimes my focus is on the raid and not on everybody else.

It might be different on Mythic or on later fights, but for this level of raiding, we seem to be doing very well.

If we break fight mechanics down to the 5 basic scenarios; Enhancement is well below average.

1. Sustained ST; below average (especially outside of 3 mins).
2. Burst ST; poor (we have too many weak CD's, and no strong burst CD like Ascendance use to be).
3. 2-3 Target Cleave; abysmal
4. Burst AOE; poor (since we have ramp-up time in our AOE rotation).
5. Sustained AOE; strong (problem is sustained AOE losses value as toons gear up, and lack of it in the majority of boss fights).

So with sustained AOE being our only strong point (which losses value), and not bringing any additional utility or survivability, I feel we are not as competitive as most other classes, and could benefit from some fine-tuning.

I love playing my Enhance Shammy, but the one unsatisfying thing about us is that we have nothing anymore in our toolkit to exploit the knowledge of a boss encounter. Whereas other toons, with continual encounter knowledge, can plan their burst ST and burst AOE better, work out better cleaving, and use their raid utility optimally.

I'm not saying we don't improve with encounter knowledge, but because of our lack of "oomph" in items 1-4 above, I feel it doesn't really make that much difference in our damage. I might even go so far to say that as encounter knowledge increases, we look less competitive.

Your findings seem to be different from everybody elses. It might be because you raid on a different level than me, but I certainly don't find us to be below average on sustained single target fights at all.

2-3 target cleave can be fairly good. If you speec Liquid Magma, you get a burst for cleaving down targets every 40 seconds, which is quite powerful when tied to Flame Shock and Fire Nova - if you have to burst down three targets, this is a way to go. Even more, I like to use Elemental Fusion for cleave situations - three very strong dots running on three targets plus fire nova, chain lightning and AOE totem and we are doing fine enough. It's not the best, but it's certainly not abysmal.

Heck, even burst AOE is acceptable. We don't do burst AOE as fast as other classes, but as long as the mob stays alive for 5+ seconds we can catch up to everybody else - and after five seconds, we are doing really well.

Here's my opening for burst AOE - keep in mind that I'm using Elemental Fusion rather than Liquid Magma:

If I have no Elemental Fusion stacks, I'll do:

Unleash Elements
Lava Lash
Flame Shock (+40% damage from EF and +40% damage from UE)
Lava Lash (Lava Lash now spreads powered Flame Shock dots)
Fire Nova
Unleash Elements (should be off cooldown if you used UE ahead of time)
Fire Nova
Fire Nova
Fire Nova
You get the picture

If you are using Liquid Magma, you can do a whole lot of damage in a very short time - you'd use this if mobs die within 5-10 seconds, just to get some damage in.

[miffy23]

Well his findings are definitely off, our burst is by no means weak, we're still in the top pack there, and our single target is decent. We just get outperformed by a handful of specs on ST, and a few on cleave. Enh is in a very solid spot atm.

2-3 target is definitely our weakest area though, ameliorated a bit by the Soul Cap and Mirror trinkets.

[Vizslakane]

Your findings seem to be different from everybody elses. It might be because you raid on a different level than me, but I certainly don't find us to be below average on sustained single target fights at all. We are a small "casual" guild raiding on normal. Most of us are in the 690-705 range.

I guess I would have to agree that you are not raiding at/with the level of players I am (mythic 712-718).

My findings actually concur with many enhance shamans. I never said we are bad. I said we need a little fine tuning.
You make it sound like I said we can't be viable at any of it (no need for an ability lesson).

I am very happy playing my Enhance Shammy, and doing pretty good in mythic progression. (Let's not forget the subject of this post.)

I am making a distinction between burst and sustained. Also the terms poor and below average can be subjective.

Our ST burst is poor outside on open rotation. (We review our logs every week, and when there's a priority add to burst down, we are sub-par.) Many enhance shamans are, correctly, unsatisfied with our way too many, lackluster, weak CD's. Prune it up a bit, and give us a hard hitter.

Our AOE takes ramp up time; drop a magma totem, flame shock, lava lash, then fire nova (and optimally we need to add in an unleash elements, and have liquid magma off CD). So at higher gear levels, our burst AOE is poor. Most adds/mobs are dead by the time we can ramp-up. Any sustained AOE and we are golden. I would say if we can get off 3 fire novas (on 4+ targets) then we should be ahead of the pack.

Our 2-3 target cleave is just bad (again, no need for an ability lesson).

So again, our sustained ST is average (decent), and our sustained AOE is strong. I feel the other areas need a bit of tuning.

To be honest, I think if they improved our cleave, gave us a hard hitting CD (which might/could, in turn, help cleave), and a bit better utility (eg. stronger off-heals), we would be in a very nice, more competitive position.

[Hedin]

Flame Shock (+40% damage from EF and +40% damage from UE)
Lava Lash (Lava Lash now spreads powered Flame Shock dots)

Since when do we spread buffed fs with ll?!

[Tore]

It's okay right now. Our damage is... permissible on single target, and we do alright on AoE, even though we get blown out of the water on burst AoE by warriors and warlocks.

Remedial is how I would describe Enhancement damage right now. My biggest gripe is that if w're going to be remedial, we should have some utility to make up for the deficit. It's never a good thing to compare yourself to OP classes, but at least in terms of other Agility users--if Rogues get to top meters AND get Smoke Bomb AND get to cheese mechanics, I wonder why we can't even use AG to any useful effect.

[Deleted]

Prety much depends what gear you have
My enh is with 2 BRF set few HFC items and rest is baleful gear incl weapons
Ring is 715
I haven tested it fully but before i get 2 BRF set soul capacitor and that BOE mail belt from HFC heroic my damage was below 40k on ST
Now best ST who i output was around 41-42 in BRF