Spirit Bond Talent and Glyph of Animal Bond

[JacobusRex]

I was reading Icy Veins' articles on Hunter builds and I was wondering if the combination of Glyph of Animal Bond and the Spirit Bond Talent would make Spirit Bond worth taking. The article says that it's an undertuned talent at the moment, which I realize, but could this combination make it at LEAST viable for a raiding environment? Perhaps not progression, but for your average raiding situation.

[Rivin]

Animal Bond doesn't affect Spirit Bond. Percent-health heals aren't affected by healing increases, only changes to your max health.

[JacobusRex]

Animal Bond doesn't affect Spirit Bond. Percent-health heals aren't affected by healing increases, only changes to your max health.

I see, thank you Rivin. Do you think that was intentional? I wonder if they will re-tune the talent to be more viable.

[Fritters154]

I was reading Icy Veins' articles on Hunter builds and I was wondering if the combination of Glyph of Animal Bond and the Spirit Bond Talent would make Spirit Bond worth taking. The article says that it's an undertuned talent at the moment, which I realize, but could this combination make it at LEAST viable for a raiding environment? Perhaps not progression, but for your average raiding situation.

Still not really. Spirit Bond is beautiful for doing anything solo and I use it like 70-80% of the time I play but in a group Iron Hawk is simply a better option. I actually think Glyph of Animal Blood helps Iron Hawk users out more than Spirit Bond users as you get damaged less and then healed faster. Whereas a lot of the time with spirit bond you are just sitting at max health or near it and losing the benefit of the talent. The few cases where you aren't sitting at a high amount of health throughout the boss it could be debatable, but the healers will throw heals at you regardless of talent choice so I still think Iron Hawk+Animal Blood is a better combo than Spirit Bond+Animal Blood in raids.

Plus, in raids your pet really shouldn't be taking damage so half the effect of Spirit Bond is lost.

Apparently it helps them out a lot more because Spirit Bond doesn't benefit from Animal Blood...never really realized that as Animal Blood is constantly glyphed.

[JacobusRex]

Still not really. Spirit Bond is beautiful for doing anything solo and I use it like 70-80% of the time I play but in a group Iron Hawk is simply a better option. I actually think Glyph of Animal Blood helps Iron Hawk users out more than Spirit Bond users as you get damaged less and then healed faster. Whereas a lot of the time with spirit bond you are just sitting at max health or near it and losing the benefit of the talent. The few cases where you aren't sitting at a high amount of health throughout the boss it could be debatable, but the healers will throw heals at you regardless of talent choice so I still think Iron Hawk+Animal Blood is a better combo than Spirit Bond+Animal Blood in raids.

Plus, in raids your pet really shouldn't be taking damage so half the effect of Spirit Bond is lost.

Apparently it helps them out a lot more because Spirit Bond doesn't benefit from Animal Blood...never really realized that as Animal Blood is constantly glyphed.

I see what you're saying. It seems more of a PVP talent, and an insufficient one at that. If it were 6 or 8 percent, that would be a much different story. :P

[Deleted]

did you test this?
i made several tests and animal bond glyph works with spirit bond(Will test it again today to clarify this). (its still just *500 hp heal more depending on your max hp so no big deal)
Also since you just use it as bm ( mm no pet =D) it is tons of times better than Iron hawk.
Just take the talent, do a fight. On the one hand you have the Amount of the Reduced Dmg which is 1/10 of all dmg gained and on the other hand you have selfhealing done by spirit bond. check the following formular
Healing by Spirit Bond - (Dmg gained /10) you still will have a positive Value. ---> Spiritbond > ironhawk

For example checkout this log
Dmg taken:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e=45&by=target

Dmg gained 2.74million during the fight -> 2740000 - 265k absorb = 2.48m /10 -> 248k dmg reduced due to ironhawk

Now lets check Healing done by spirit bond from the same fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=45

469k Healing by Spirit bond - 248k dmg reduction by ironhawk = ~220k damage negation more than ironhawk and less heal power required from healers

[Charo]

So I guess I'm the only asshole uses Exhilaration?

[Deleted]

did you test this?
i made several tests and animal bond glyph works with spirit bond(Will test it again today to clarify this). (its still just *500 hp heal more depending on your max hp so no big deal)
Also since you just use it as bm ( mm no pet =D) it is tons of times better than Iron hawk.
Just take the talent, do a fight. On the one hand you have the Amount of the Reduced Dmg which is 1/10 of all dmg gained and on the other hand you have selfhealing done by spirit bond. check the following formular
Healing by Spirit Bond - (Dmg gained /10) you still will have a positive Value. ---> Spiritbond > ironhawk

For example checkout this log
Dmg taken:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e=45&by=target

Dmg gained 2.74million during the fight -> 2740000 - 265k absorb = 2.48m /10 -> 248k dmg reduced due to ironhawk

Now lets check Healing done by spirit bond from the same fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=45

469k Healing by Spirit bond - 248k dmg reduction by ironhawk = ~220k damage negation more than ironhawk and less heal power required from healers

Purly talking PVE Raids now:

A small % of your hp every 2 seconds will do NOTHING when the boss either dont touch you or you take a MASSIVE hit that need to be healed up fast. Thats the reason why there is not a single encounter that make spirit bond better then Iron hawk.
If there would be a fight that had permanent concistent damage then any hot class would cover that and iron hawk would prob still be better.

PVP spirit bond is supperior in every way (Granted you use a pet spec ofc)

And no glyph of spirit bond does not effect spirit bond heal in any sort or way. % based heals are not effected by healing modifiers OR battle fatigue.

[Hawg]

did you test this?
i made several tests and animal bond glyph works with spirit bond(Will test it again today to clarify this). (its still just *500 hp heal more depending on your max hp so no big deal)

I just tested it too and conclude that animal bond glyph does not increase the ticks of heals you get from Spirit Bond. Here is how I tested it:

With animal bond glyph and spirit bond talent, I take off my shoes; then I put them back on, the "what happened to me" dialogue reports that the ticks of heals from my cat: "Cat Spirit Bond healed You 6880 Nature."

Without animal bond glyph, I take off my shoes; then I put them back on, and it reports the ticks as: "Cat Spirit Bond healed You 6880 Nature."

So I conclude the glyph does not work with spirit bond.

Also since you just use it as bm ( mm no pet =D) it is tons of times better than Iron hawk.
Just take the talent, do a fight. On the one hand you have the Amount of the Reduced Dmg which is 1/10 of all dmg gained and on the other hand you have selfhealing done by spirit bond. check the following formular
Healing by Spirit Bond - (Dmg gained /10) you still will have a positive Value. ---> Spiritbond > ironhawk

For example checkout this log
Dmg taken:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e=45&by=target

Dmg gained 2.74million during the fight -> 2740000 - 265k absorb = 2.48m /10 -> 248k dmg reduced due to ironhawk

Now lets check Healing done by spirit bond from the same fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=45

469k Healing by Spirit bond - 248k dmg reduction by ironhawk = ~220k damage negation more than ironhawk and less heal power required from healers

As far as total healing, spirit bond wins hands down... but I would argue that Exhilaration is the better talent for PVE. For me unbuffed, exhilaration = 103194K heal available once every two minutes. I'd rather be able to have a 103K heal that I can control than have a 6.8K heal that ticks even when I am at 99.9%.

[Deleted]

I just tested it too and conclude that animal bond glyph does not increase the ticks of heals you get from Spirit Bond. Here is how I tested it:

With animal bond glyph and spirit bond talent, I take off my shoes; then I put them back on, the "what happened to me" dialogue reports that the ticks of heals from my cat: "Cat Spirit Bond healed You 6880 Nature."

Without animal bond glyph, I take off my shoes; then I put them back on, and it reports the ticks as: "Cat Spirit Bond healed You 6880 Nature."

So I conclude the glyph does not work with spirit bond.

ah thanks for the info i am not at home so i could not test it till now^^

Purly talking PVE Raids now:

A small % of your hp every 2 seconds will do NOTHING when the boss either dont touch you or you take a MASSIVE hit that need to be healed up fast. Thats the reason why there is not a single encounter that make spirit bond better then Iron hawk.
If there would be a fight that had permanent concistent damage then any hot class would cover that and iron hawk would prob still be better.

PVP spirit bond is supperior in every way (Granted you use a pet spec ofc)

And no glyph of spirit bond does not effect spirit bond heal in any sort or way. % based heals are not effected by healing modifiers OR battle fatigue.

Umm , HFA -> dmg from caster adds + tank which does raiddmg and the ingineurs, Reaver stomphase and the goddam dot , Komrok hands and stomps, HFC blademaster and the debuff, gorefiend like ... everything , Iskar gleves and wind and wounds, zakhuun p2 , Xhulorak also nearly all the time, mannoroth ( i gues i do not have to say that there is nearly constantly a dmg source you gain, archimonde all the time raid dmg, Velarie all phases, and finaly socrethar the debuff.

In Every fight of this content you gain slow dmg during the whole fight, and now tell me that spirit bond is not good ?

as a hunter with deterrence and beeing the class with the most mobility in wow, you should NEVER gain a hit this large, also if you need an instant heal you have your healing potions, every other great hit is completly soakable with deterence ??

oh and one thing, if the boss does not touch you..... why should i need 10 % dmg reduction =D

[eschatological]

You just mentioned things that are burst-damage in nature, and would be barely touched by Spirit Bond. Casters shouldn't live more than a few seconds in Meta form, Pounding on Reaver and hands on Kormok are things you raid CD through that's how heavy the damage is, Gorefiend is 100% avoidable damage except the shadow cleave thing that forces you to spread out, HFC Blademaster = does this boss even damage?, Iskar glaives and winds and wounds are, again, short-lived, bursty damage, etc, etc, etc.

As an example:

Say Pound does 600k damage to you over the 6s cast (numbers made up), 100k a second. Iron Hawk instantly mitigates 60k damage. For Spirit Bond to heal that 60k, you'd need 20s of not being at full health to make that up. Which if you have decent healers, won't happen. Spirit Bond by its nature is counteracted by healers.

[Azortharion]

did you test this?
i made several tests and animal bond glyph works with spirit bond(Will test it again today to clarify this). (its still just *500 hp heal more depending on your max hp so no big deal)
Also since you just use it as bm ( mm no pet =D) it is tons of times better than Iron hawk.
Just take the talent, do a fight. On the one hand you have the Amount of the Reduced Dmg which is 1/10 of all dmg gained and on the other hand you have selfhealing done by spirit bond. check the following formular
Healing by Spirit Bond - (Dmg gained /10) you still will have a positive Value. ---> Spiritbond > ironhawk

For example checkout this log
Dmg taken:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...e=45&by=target

Dmg gained 2.74million during the fight -> 2740000 - 265k absorb = 2.48m /10 -> 248k dmg reduced due to ironhawk

Now lets check Healing done by spirit bond from the same fight
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ling&source=45

469k Healing by Spirit bond - 248k dmg reduction by ironhawk = ~220k damage negation more than ironhawk and less heal power required from healers

Too bad that almost no matter how much healing Spirit Bond does compared to Iron Hawk mitigation (or Exhilaration healing), a low-health passive heal will pretty much never save your life, making it a useless talent regardless of glyphs you combo it with.

- - - Updated - - -

ah thanks for the info i am not at home so i could not test it till now^^




Umm , HFA -> dmg from caster adds + tank which does raiddmg and the ingineurs, Reaver stomphase and the goddam dot , Komrok hands and stomps, HFC blademaster and the debuff, gorefiend like ... everything , Iskar gleves and wind and wounds, zakhuun p2 , Xhulorak also nearly all the time, mannoroth ( i gues i do not have to say that there is nearly constantly a dmg source you gain, archimonde all the time raid dmg, Velarie all phases, and finaly socrethar the debuff.

In Every fight of this content you gain slow dmg during the whole fight, and now tell me that spirit bond is not good ?

as a hunter with deterrence and beeing the class with the most mobility in wow, you should NEVER gain a hit this large, also if you need an instant heal you have your healing potions, every other great hit is completly soakable with deterence ??

oh and one thing, if the boss does not touch you..... why should i need 10 % dmg reduction =D

Why is it not good? Because it's still not saving your life. Both Iron Hawk and Exhilaration (the latter moreso, I have found) have multiple scenarios, common and uncommon, where your life is saved because of them. Spirit Bond has none of those, it'll just keep your health higher when no damage is going on anyway (while as soon as ticking-style damage is going on, its benefit is nonexistent compared to Iron Hawk or Exhilaration).

Throughout a high-damage of say, 10 seconds, Spirit Bond will give you 10% health. Iron Hawk will mitigate it before it even happens. Hell, if it's particularly nasty, Exhilaration will heal you for 30% of your health, and that's under your control (although not constantly available). For that kind of damage, though (where death is imminent), Deterrence can fill the gaps where Exhilaration is not there.

I get what you're trying to do. Clearly, if Spirit Bond heals 2-3 times as much as Iron Hawk mitigates, it's clearly better, even if mitigating it beforehand is more desirable, it's still TWICE or THRICE as much health, right?

That mentality is wrong. It's not about how much health you save with each talent, it's what'll save your life in a sticky situation.