Illidan vs Mannoroth

[sam86]

THEN WHAT THE FUCK DOES ILLIDAN HAVE?

he doesn't get axed for breakfast, he needed a whole raid to just defeat him, while the other one - Mannoroth - is used as an axe testing living dummy

[pateuvasiliu]

Illidan wrecks. He destroyed Tychondrius and defeated Maghteridon. In Icecrown he was beating Arthas up until his arrogance got the best of him.

Maghteridon has few feats and Grom killed him twice with 1 hit.

[DemonHunter18]

Illidan wrecks. He destroyed Tychondrius and defeated Maghteridon. In Icecrown he was beating Arthas up until his arrogance got the best of him.

Maghteridon has few feats and Grom killed him twice with 1 hit.

you mean Mannoroth...

[MikeBogina]

Despite your join date, I get the feeling you havent been here long.

Illidan has been a lore figurehead since TBC. Mannoroth was dead for 6 years, came back only to die the same way and was ressurected in the game only to die for a 3rd time.

That's interesting you say that, since Illidan hasn't been a "lore figurehead" since TBC. He's known in the lore from the War of the Ancients, RoC and FT that came out years before TBC. And when TBC was announced we all got excited, till we realized Illidan wasn't in the expansion, but just the final boss of the Black Temple. So yeah, my join date is old, and my point still stands. I guess your join date shows how long you've been into the lore? While others of us have been into it before WoW even existed.

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Illidan wrecks. He destroyed Tychondrius and defeated Maghteridon. In Icecrown he was beating Arthas up until his arrogance got the best of him.

Maghteridon has few feats and Grom killed him twice with 1 hit.

Tichondrius is physically weaker, Dread Lords are more of glass cannons, but they don't die(none are confirmed dead) and Magtheridon is a massive war tank, they're known for dishing out a lot of physical dmg and taking a lot of dmg.

Mannoroth however is unique. He's the leader of the Pitlords because he is more about magical powers than brute strength. His power easily rivals second tier Eredar in the Legion and has a pitlords body to boot!

there's a reason he was Archimonde's second instead of another Eredar. Illidan doesn't stand a chance against him in a one on one fight. But Illidan is cunning and Mannoroth is arrogant(though I guess Illidan is arrogant against Arthas)

[sam86]

Tichondrius is physically weaker

Excuse me what ? Are u using in-game reference or something? Because Tichondrius was a beast in wc3 and need chaos dmg to even do dmg to him without cheat, not to mention in-game represent is worst way to claim anything
Dread Lords while are manipulator types and don't like to be in front of attack, they are stronger than most other races, claiming they are 'weak' is based on what exactly?

[Candy Cough]

Excuse me what ? Are u using in-game reference or something? Because Tichondrius was a beast in wc3 and need chaos dmg to even do dmg to him without cheat, not to mention in-game represent is worst way to claim anything
Dread Lords while are manipulator types and don't like to be in front of attack, they are stronger than most other races, claiming they are 'weak' is based on what exactly?

So you're taking game mechanics into consideration now? That's like saying Cenarius cant be killed unless you have fel damage, give me a break.

[Eazy]

So you're taking game mechanics into consideration now? That's like saying Cenarius cant be killed unless you have fel damage, give me a break.

They couldn't actually kill him without the fel empowerment.

[DemonHunter18]

That's interesting you say that, since Illidan hasn't been a "lore figurehead" since TBC. He's known in the lore from the War of the Ancients, RoC and FT that came out years before TBC. And when TBC was announced we all got excited, till we realized Illidan wasn't in the expansion, but just the final boss of the Black Temple. So yeah, my join date is old, and my point still stands. I guess your join date shows how long you've been into the lore? While others of us have been into it before WoW even existed.

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Tichondrius is physically weaker, Dread Lords are more of glass cannons, but they don't die(none are confirmed dead) and Magtheridon is a massive war tank, they're known for dishing out a lot of physical dmg and taking a lot of dmg.

Mannoroth however is unique. He's the leader of the Pitlords because he is more about magical powers than brute strength. His power easily rivals second tier Eredar in the Legion and has a pitlords body to boot!

there's a reason he was Archimonde's second instead of another Eredar. Illidan doesn't stand a chance against him in a one on one fight. But Illidan is cunning and Mannoroth is arrogant(though I guess Illidan is arrogant against Arthas)

Illidan is stronger than Mannnoroth in raw power,but physically not a chance.

[iamthedevil]

They couldn't actually kill him without the fel empowerment.

Lol, what are you gonna tell me next? Grizzly Adams had a beard? PShhhh.

So far, it seams like a turtle riding a surfboard while sleeping could kill Mannoroth.

[Irian]

Grom managed to one-shot Mannoroth twice due to the sheer, raw power he has backing him. Illidan doesn't have that, but what Illidan does have is blinding speed backed by the ability to fly.

Do I think Illidan is stronger than Mannoroth? No way. Do I think Illidan would win in a head-to-head battle? Absolutely, no questions. Illidan has killed many demons including Magtheridon.

[Tojara]

I don't think Illidan would have a chance.

The only reason Grom Hellscream killed him the first time was absolute pure rage, combined with Mannoroth completely underestimating him.

Secondly, while it might seem obvious to say that Garrosh told his father in the alternate timeline how to to deal with Mannoroth, I highly doubt he actually did. Garrosh in the main timeline was briefed on his fathers death, but it's unlikely, nor referenced anywhere that the Orcs drinking the blood in the original timeline had any idea Mannoroth was lurking in the shadows. They obviously prepared for something, which is why they brought siege weaponry, but it's not cold cut that they prepared for Mannoroth solely. Garrosh told them and briefed them on events as a prophet, and Grom saw visions of the future. Those visions were cut off such that he never saw beyond events of WC3 at all, so it's fairly unlikely that Garrosh would fill him in on what would be his destiny. Remember, he's trying to conceal who he really is, spilling too much would cause suspicions. The cinematic told me that they were surprised, clearly by Groms reaction, but they had a plan just in case something like this would happen. Garrosh lived through Gul'dans treachery, helping cause the destruction of the original Horde along with Draenor, he obviously knew of Gul'dans legacy through others and knew that Gul'dan wouldn't take a 'no' kindly.

While they were prepared for something, things still went awfully wrong for them (per the Iron Star malfunctioning). The Orcs in background began siege on Mannoroth, which was fairly futile outside of distraction (distraction being the big point). In the end though the ultimate distraction was produced by Grom himself by launching the Iron Star by himself, and delivering a mortal blow. I don't think Garrosh gave him any pointers on how to kill Mannoroth, because it would be pretty pointless to do so. Grom realistically had one option, one shot Mannoroth, because against a being like Mannoroth there is no other option, and I referenced this in another thread. You don't trade blows with Mannoroth, you simply don't.

Am I saying Grom Hellscream is an equal to Illidan? No, but he in my opinion is more equipped to deal with somebody like Mannoroth. For all intent and purpose Pitlords have been shown to destroy whole armies by themselves, and instances shown in game in addition to text show them being remarkable resistant to all things magic, or fire. Illidan's magical abilities aren't really shown in the scope of the games beyond lighting himself on fire, throwing chaos bolts while in demon form, and mostly opening/closing portals. Mannoroth had an iron star blow up in close proximity and fended off a barrage of catapult fire, I doubt Illidan throwing balls of magic, nor his immolation aura is going to do anything special to Mannoroth. Meanwhile Mannoroth breaks out of chains effortlessly, and shoots giant fucking laser beams out of his weapon constantly. At the same time Illidan can't even break out of a simple warden cage in WC3:TFT, and was put in a prison for 10 000 years.

Magically, I don't think any of Illidans abilities would do anything noticeable to Mannoroth, and melee wise it would be even more unfavorable. Well of the ancients instance isn't really how it went down, and it's simply silly to believe somebody of Illidans stature would be able to trade blows and parry a weapon as big as Mannoroth yields. I mean that's just a game play thing, you really think that in the lore we have warriors going up swinging swords and parrying sulfuras from Ragnaros? Just like Grom, you either kill Mannoroth quickly, or he kills you.

Magically I don't think he's equipped to kill Mannoroth, and physically, Warglaives as cool as they look, aren't the type of weapons that are going to cleave through his chest piece and stomach, and/or cause a mortal strike through his cranium with enough force. An axe such as Gorehowl, while nothing special on it's own is a weapon meant exclusively for shattering/breaking armor/weapons, and causing mortal like wounds with deep piercing. Axes historically do these kind of things. Warglaives on the other hand while looking cool, are slicing weapons, and a slicing weapon on the surface really doesn't look like a weapon of choice for dealing with Mannoroth.

Magtheridon was never killed by Illidan alone, it was a party of Illidan, Vashj, Akama and Kael'thas, with their own respective armies. Keep in mind Magtheridon had demons at this command as well, but by no means did Illidan storm Black Temple and take it over by himself. You had all of the heroes listed, in addition to their armies listed. Magtheridon wasn't killed either, just subdued, later to be placed in the basement of HFC.

That's not me being totally biased over Grom either, it's just being a bit more realistic with the information we have. Grom ran into Gul'dan and got shackled immediately, but Gul'dan was likely prepared for that. No excuse though. Illidan in the same scenario probably couldn't be shackled like that.

This game and it's lore is all over the place BTW, but you can make pretty logical estimates on what would happen. Illidan doesn't automatically beat all just because he's a moody, edgy anti-hero that people fawn over because he dances around with glowing green weapons. He's certainly powerful, but those attributes don't allow him to effortlessly beat everybody. Nothing so far states that Illidan could deal with a Pitlord by himself. He can deal with a lot of other powerful heroes/villains, but Mannoroth wouldn't be one of them. People say that Mannoroth is arrogant which is a weakness, but it's not like Illidan has shown signs of arrogance (aka, getting embarrassed and nearly killed by Arthas at the Frozen Throne).

[DemonHunter18]

I don't think Illidan would have a chance.

The only reason Grom Hellscream killed him the first time was absolute pure rage, combined with Mannoroth completely underestimating him.

Secondly, while it might seem obvious to say that Garrosh told his father in the alternate timeline how to to deal with Mannoroth, I highly doubt he actually did. Garrosh in the main timeline was briefed on his fathers death, but it's unlikely, nor referenced anywhere that the Orcs drinking the blood in the original timeline had any idea Mannoroth was lurking in the shadows. They obviously prepared for something, which is why they brought siege weaponry, but it's not cold cut that they prepared for Mannoroth solely. Garrosh told them and briefed them on events as a prophet, and Grom saw visions of the future. Those visions were cut off such that he never saw beyond events of WC3 at all, so it's fairly unlikely that Garrosh would fill him in on what would be his destiny. Remember, he's trying to conceal who he really is, spilling too much would cause suspicions. The cinematic told me that they were surprised, clearly by Groms reaction, but they had a plan just in case something like this would happen. Garrosh lived through Gul'dans treachery, helping cause the destruction of the original Horde along with Draenor, he obviously knew of Gul'dans legacy through others and knew that Gul'dan wouldn't take a 'no' kindly.

While they were prepared for something, things still went awfully wrong for them (per the Iron Star malfunctioning). The Orcs in background began siege on Mannoroth, which was fairly futile outside of distraction (distraction being the big point). In the end though the ultimate distraction was produced by Grom himself by launching the Iron Star by himself, and delivering a mortal blow. I don't think Garrosh gave him any pointers on how to kill Mannoroth, because it would be pretty pointless to do so. Grom realistically had one option, one shot Mannoroth, because against a being like Mannoroth there is no other option, and I referenced this in another thread. You don't trade blows with Mannoroth, you simply don't.

Am I saying Grom Hellscream is an equal to Illidan? No, but he in my opinion is more equipped to deal with somebody like Mannoroth. For all intent and purpose Pitlords have been shown to destroy whole armies by themselves, and instances shown in game in addition to text show them being remarkable resistant to all things magic, or fire. Illidan's magical abilities aren't really shown in the scope of the games beyond lighting himself on fire, throwing chaos bolts while in demon form, and mostly opening/closing portals. Mannoroth had an iron star blow up in close proximity and fended off a barrage of catapult fire, I doubt Illidan throwing balls of magic, nor his immolation aura is going to do anything special to Mannoroth. Meanwhile Mannoroth breaks out of chains effortlessly, and shoots giant fucking laser beams out of his weapon constantly. At the same time Illidan can't even break out of a simple warden cage in WC3:TFT, and was put in a prison for 10 000 years.

Magically, I don't think any of Illidans abilities would do anything noticeable to Mannoroth, and melee wise it would be even more unfavorable. Well of the ancients instance isn't really how it went down, and it's simply silly to believe somebody of Illidans stature would be able to trade blows and parry a weapon as big as Mannoroth yields. I mean that's just a game play thing, you really think that in the lore we have warriors going up swinging swords and parrying sulfuras from Ragnaros? Just like Grom, you either kill Mannoroth quickly, or he kills you.

Magically I don't think he's equipped to kill Mannoroth, and physically, Warglaives as cool as they look, aren't the type of weapons that are going to cleave through his chest piece and stomach, and/or cause a mortal strike through his cranium with enough force. An axe such as Gorehowl, while nothing special on it's own is a weapon meant exclusively for shattering/breaking armor/weapons, and causing mortal like wounds with deep piercing. Axes historically do these kind of things. Warglaives on the other hand while looking cool, are slicing weapons, and a slicing weapon on the surface really doesn't look like a weapon of choice for dealing with Mannoroth.

Magtheridon was never killed by Illidan alone, it was a party of Illidan, Vashj, Akama and Kael'thas, with their own respective armies. Keep in mind Magtheridon had demons at this command as well, but by no means did Illidan storm Black Temple and take it over by himself. You had all of the heroes listed, in addition to their armies listed. Magtheridon wasn't killed either, just subdued, later to be placed in the basement of HFC.

That's not me being totally biased over Grom either, it's just being a bit more realistic with the information we have. Grom ran into Gul'dan and got shackled immediately, but Gul'dan was likely prepared for that. No excuse though. Illidan in the same scenario probably couldn't be shackled like that.

This game and it's lore is all over the place BTW, but you can make pretty logical estimates on what would happen. Illidan doesn't automatically beat all just because he's a moody, edgy anti-hero that people fawn over because he dances around with glowing green weapons. He's certainly powerful, but those attributes don't allow him to effortlessly beat everybody. Nothing so far states that Illidan could deal with a Pitlord by himself. He can deal with a lot of other powerful heroes/villains, but Mannoroth wouldn't be one of them. People say that Mannoroth is arrogant which is a weakness, but it's not like Illidan has shown signs of arrogance (aka, getting embarrassed and nearly killed by Arthas at the Frozen Throne).

well dialogue from Magtheridon where he sayis to Illidan "Your power is vast" and "Have you been sent here to test me" and when Illidan said "I will become stronger than any of Archimonde lieutenants"should be completely ignored???

[Tojara]

Yes, as he Lady Vashj, Kael'Thas, Akama and their armies stand behind them lol.

Stating power doesn't necessarily always mean ones own power. You enter Black Temple with a giant army and some pretty impressive heroes, that could be seen as acquiring power through allies as well.

You think Archimonde or Kil'Jaedens 'power' is solely from them as well (despite them being really powerful)? No, it's because they command a giant fucking legion of demons that spans universes. Archimonde didn't death march through Hyjal summit and effortlessly defeat human, orc and night elf encampments. He death marched to the summit with a giant scourge and demon army, lol.

Using those sort of estimates, Malfurion tells Thrall during his dumb wedding that Thralls power has grown massively. I could infer that Thrall is more powerful than Malfurion now, and because of that Thrall would absolutely destroy Illidan (because Malfurion > Illidan). You can read into Magtheridon's statement however you like and referenced the finale in the Blood Elf campaign in WC3:TFT a thousand times and it won't make a difference.

I can tell you the same thing. Go do that campaign in WC3:TFT and take note of the events leading up to entering the Black Temple. Get out a pen and paper, and write down the names of all of those heroes that accompany Illidan through Black Temple, and aid in the conclusion of that event. I'll give you one hint, Illidan didn't do it by himself.

[DemonHunter18]

Yes, as he Lady Vashj, Kael'Thas, Akama and their armies stand behind them lol.

Stating power doesn't necessarily always mean ones own power. You enter Black Temple with a giant army and some pretty impressive heroes, that could be seen as acquiring power through allies as well.

You think Archimonde or Kil'Jaedens 'power' is solely from them as well (despite them being really powerful)? No, it's because they command a giant fucking legion of demons that spans universes. Archimonde didn't death march through Hyjal summit and effortlessly defeat human, orc and night elf encampments. He death marched to the summit with a giant scourge and demon army, lol.

Using those sort of estimates, Malfurion tells Thrall during his dumb wedding that Thralls power has grown massively. I could infer that Thrall is more powerful than Malfurion now, and because of that Thrall would absolutely destroy Illidan (because Malfurion > Illidan). You can read into Magtheridon's statement however you like and referenced the finale in the Blood Elf campaign in WC3:TFT a thousand times and it won't make a difference.

I can tell you the same thing. Go do that campaign in WC3:TFT and take note of the events leading up to entering the Black Temple. Get out a pen and paper, and write down the names of all of those heroes that accompany Illidan through Black Temple, and aid in the conclusion of that event. I'll give you one hint, Illidan didn't do it by himself.

I dont want to be rude but you didnt answer my question.


P.S he speaked directly to Illidan,not his army.besides,if you are looking at game mechanics Magtheridon was defeated by us 25 I think,while Illidan with 25 of us+Akama and Maiev.

[Rathbourne]

I dont want to be rude but you didnt answer my question.


P.S he speaked directly to Illidan,not his army.besides,if you are looking at game mechanics Magtheridon was defeated by us 25 I think,while Illidan with 25 of us+Akama and Maiev.

He speaks directly to Illidan because he appears to be their leader,and he was probably the best fighter in the opposing army.But that does not mean he was referring to Illidan alone when he said power.Think of WoW as Game of Thrones rather than Dbz.POWER does not mean powerlevel.It matters on the size of your army,your allies etc.
King Terenas Menethil was more powerful than Rexxar.Why ?cuz he was the ruler of a large kingdom with a large army at his command.But if Terenas fought Rexxar 1v1,he would get destroyed in seconds.After closing the demon portals,Illidan had the larger more competent army,making him more powerful.

Illidan says that he would become more powerful than all of Archimonde's lieutenants.But you cannot take everything Illidan says as fact,sine he is a character and not God.He thought the eye of Sargeras would destroy the Frozen Throne,but was surprised when Furion told him of Northrend itself being destroyed.He underestimated Arthas and got cut from shoulder to torso.ALSO,Illidan says this after Mannoroth is killed by Grom in WC3,a news that would spread pretty quickly because of who Mannoroth was.So he was probably referring to Tichondrius,Anetheron,Azgalr etc...

PS:Saying Mannorth was killed by an axe also doesnt work since,the axe was Gorehowl(a legendary weapon empowered by the hearts of 6 mighty gronn,granting it untold strength) and the weilder was Grom Hellscream on demon steroids and fueled by murderous,reckless rage.To top it off Mannoroth was understimating him a lot .In WoD he had the help of the entire Iron Horde and took Mannoroth by surprise.

[DemonHunter18]

He speaks directly to Illidan because he appears to be their leader,and he was probably the best fighter in the opposing army.But that does not mean he was referring to Illidan alone when he said power.Think of WoW as Game of Thrones rather than Dbz.POWER does not mean powerlevel.It matters on the size of your army,your allies etc.
King Terenas Menethil was more powerful than Rexxar.Why ?cuz he was the ruler of a large kingdom with a large army at his command.But if Terenas fought Rexxar 1v1,he would get destroyed in seconds.After closing the demon portals,Illidan had the larger more competent army,making him more powerful.

Illidan says that he would become more powerful than all of Archimonde's lieutenants.But you cannot take everything Illidan says as fact,sine he is a character and not God.He thought the eye of Sargeras would destroy the Frozen Throne,but was surprised when Furion told him of Northrend itself being destroyed.He underestimated Arthas and got cut from shoulder to torso.ALSO,Illidan says this after Mannoroth is killed by Grom in WC3,a news that would spread pretty quickly because of who Mannoroth was.So he was probably referring to Tichondrius,Anetheron,Azgalr etc...

PS:Saying Mannorth was killed by an axe also doesnt work since,the axe was Gorehowl(a legendary weapon empowered by the hearts of 6 mighty gronn,granting it untold strength) and the weilder was Grom Hellscream on demon steroids and fueled by murderous,reckless rage.To top it off Mannoroth was understimating him a lot .In WoD he had the help of the entire Iron Horde and took Mannoroth by surprise.

Im pretty sure that Illidan,in raw power,is more powerful than both Magtheridon and Mannoroth.can he beat them???thats the question.about army you said is pure speculation.Illidan wasnt surprised that it would destroy the Northrend.also,how could Illidan have known that Mannoroth was killed???maybe Tyrande told him.pure speculation.besides,he didnt know about Anetheron,Azgalr and etc because he left.he only knew about Tichondrius and Mannoroth which he met 10,000 years ago and he knows how powerful he is.Illidan anything but not stupid when it comes to magic.

[Rathbourne]

Im pretty sure that Illidan,in raw power,is more powerful than both Magtheridon and Mannoroth.can he beat them???thats the question.about army you said is pure speculation.Illidan wasnt surprised that it would destroy the Northrend.also,how could Illidan have known that Mannoroth was killed???maybe Tyrande told him.pure speculation.besides,he didnt know about Anetheron,Azgalr and etc because he left.he only knew about Tichondrius and Mannoroth which he met 10,000 years ago and he knows how powerful he is.Illidan anything but not stupid when it comes to magic.

Illidan ,in terms of raw power is weaker than Mannoroth and Magtheridon.If Illidan wasnt stupid he would have known destroying Northrend would cause a lot of shit to go down in Azeroth,remeber he survived the sundering.The main thing about Illidan is that he is extremely cocky,proud and at times delusional.The only person thinking that Illidan is stronger,is Illidan himself.Mannoroth is one of the highest ranking generals in the Legion.Im pretty sure the news of his death would spread quickly,especially among nightelves.
If you check wowpedia or wowwikki,it specifically said that it took ALL FOUR GENERALS (meaning Illidan,Kael,Vashj and Akama) to defeat Magtheridon.Illidan could not beat him on his own.
Illidan being stronger than mannoroth(or magtheridon) is never implied ingame,novel or any other lore source.

[Lolretadin]

The TL;DR of this thread will be that Illidan will win in votes because of popularity alone, even though Mannoroth has been portrayed as being much stronger than Illidan in-game (Ex: War of the Ancients, where it takes everything Illidan and the heroes of Azeroth have to merely distract Mannoroth).

[ImEveryCliche]

Illidan is an arrogant fool

[Deleted]

Illidan ,in terms of raw power is weaker than Mannoroth and Magtheridon.If Illidan wasnt stupid he would have known destroying Northrend would cause a lot of shit to go down in Azeroth,remeber he survived the sundering.The main thing about Illidan is that he is extremely cocky,proud and at times delusional.The only person thinking that Illidan is stronger,is Illidan himself.Mannoroth is one of the highest ranking generals in the Legion.Im pretty sure the news of his death would spread quickly,especially among nightelves.
If you check wowpedia or wowwikki,it specifically said that it took ALL FOUR GENERALS (meaning Illidan,Kael,Vashj and Akama) to defeat Magtheridon.Illidan could not beat him on his own.
Illidan being stronger than mannoroth(or magtheridon) is never implied ingame,novel or any other lore source.

I can wrote on wowiki and say that Sargeras is weaker then KJ.thats the point of all that.power=army only we speculate about that.like Illidan cares about Azeroth.he cares only for power.Illidan during WotA was much weaker then post-Skull.also 25 vs Magtheridon and 25adve,Akama,Maiev vs Illidan.we needed help in defeating Illidan,while for Magtheridon we didnt.