Vol'Jin vs Tyrande

[Ramz]

Those were big wars. There are battles though out her own life. Oh and the war of Satyr too.

War of Satyr happened roughly at the same time(though some years later) as War of Ancients. And again She wasn't part of War of the Shifting sands. Meaning she had only 2 big confrontations, that certainly didn't lasted for 10k years.

[Aeula]

I'd hope Tyrande, make some stars fall down upon his silly blue head.

[Wildmoon]

War of Satyr happened roughly at the same time(though some years later) as War of Ancients. And again She wasn't part of War of the Shifting sands. Meaning she had only 2 big confrontations, that certainly didn't lasted for 10k years.

That's like saying Vol'Jin had 0 battle experience because I don't think he played that much of a role in any big war. -_-" It's not like in those 10k years she was chilling. She was keeping peace throughout her lands without the males...

[Ramz]

That's like saying Vol'Jin had 0 battle experience because I don't think he played that much of a role in any big war. -_-" It's not like in those 10k years she was chilling. She was keeping peace throughout her lands without the males...

Against who? Furbolgs? Centaurs? some remaining Satyrs?
Those would be mainly skimrishes, not actual war/ battle on a grand scale, where you actually have to fight strict army.

All I'm trying to point that this certainly isn't 10k of combat experience. Specially considering that she isn't involved in patroling the forests personally.

[Aeula]

I don't think the two would really fight though - I mean I don't think the darkspear hold much hatred for the night elves do they?

Not to mention Vol'jin's reaction to Tyrande in SoO wasn't hostile, more so of shock.

"Tyrande..."

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Favor..._the_Darkspear

They despise night elves it seems to me.

[The Stormbringer]

Hush, Tyrande.

...I mean, my money's on Tyrande!

[Oggudrai]

That's like saying Vol'Jin had 0 battle experience because I don't think he played that much of a role in any big war. -_-" It's not like in those 10k years she was chilling. She was keeping peace throughout their lands without the males...

Our point is just that I don't think there's been any indication of them having had much of any enemies outside of those wars to really challenge them much throughout the vast majority of those vigils... So she's seen a two-three wars, which isn't nothing, by all means, but I'm not seeing proof of these other skirmishes that she's allegedly been honing her skills in throughout the long vigil...

In contrast, Vol'jin played a role primarily post-third war and in times during the fourth war, so yes, granted, not a lot in the actual wars, however we've gotten a lot of skirmishes and more self-enclosed battles confirmed:

Vol'jin fought various battles before Thrall's orcs showed up, most notably in the jungles of first home "First home" (he was certainly practiced before that point already), weathered the sea witch and most likely her naga/murloc (murlocs able to kidnap Orcs, Thrall and Kul'tiras forces before anyone goes "lol murlocs") minions for a period of time during reign of chaos, has been retconned into having been involved in skirmishes alongside Rexxar and Chen during the founding of Durotar and has apparently killed more humans than he can bother to keep count of (most likely Kul'tiras humies), fought during the fall of Zalazane, the elemental invasion pre-cataclysm, during the battle of Northwatch hold and Theramore, so he was a bit involved post-cataclysm. He fought in Pandaria, both during dagger in the dark and many times afterwards alongside the Shado-pan and in all likelihood he fought behind the scenes during the Siege of Orgrimmar, as he specifically went up top to help stop the bloodshed in the city streets.

Gauging their experience up against each other is, in my opnion, difficult because of the ambiguity of what went on during that long vigil, but it's clear that they're both talented, capable, highly trained and have both seen some action...

[Wildmoon]

Against who? Furbolgs? Centaurs? some raining Satyrs?
Those would be mainly skimrishes, not actual war/ battle on a grand scale, where you actually have to fight strict army.

All I'm trying to point that this certainly isn't 10k of combat experience. Specially considering that she isn't involved in patroling the forests personally.

She was in WC3. She was the one who spot the demons actually. If you are talking about grand scale war experience then i don't think anything exceed WotA.

[Ramz]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Favor..._the_Darkspear

They despise night elves it seems to me.

And this one :
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=6503/ashenvale-outrunners

"The fewer 'a dem elves runnin' around, the better. "

[Wildmoon]

Our point is just that I don't think there's been any indication of them having had much of any enemies outside of those wars to really challenge them much throughout the vast majority of those vigils... So she's seen a two-three wars, which isn't nothing, by all means, but I'm not seeing proof of these other skirmishes that she's allegedly been honing her skills in throughout the long vigil...

In contrast, Vol'jin played a role primarily post-third war and in times during the fourth war, so yes, granted, not a lot in the actual wars, however we've gotten a lot of skirmishes and more self-enclosed battles confirmed:

Vol'jin fought various battles before Thrall's orcs showed up, most notably in the jungles of first home "First home" (he was certainly practiced before that point already), weathered the sea witch and most likely her naga/murloc (murlocs able to kidnap Orcs, Thrall and Kul'tiras forces before anyone goes "lol murlocs") minions for a period of time during reign of chaos, has been retconned into having been involved in skirmishes alongside Rexxar and Chen during the founding of Durotar and has apparently killed more humans than he can bother to keep count of (most likely Kul'tiras humies), fought during the fall of Zalazane, the elemental invasion pre-cataclysm, during the battle of Northwatch hold and Theramore, so he was a bit involved post-cataclysm. He fought in Pandaria, both during dagger in the dark and many times afterwards alongside the Shado-pan and in all likelihood he fought behind the scenes during the Siege of Orgrimmar, as he specifically went up top to help stop the bloodshed in the city streets.

Gauging their experience up against each other is, in my opnion, difficult because of the ambiguity of what went on during that long vigil, but it's clear that they're both talented, capable, highly trained and have both seen some action...

It's called the long vigil because she had to keep the peace throughout the period in the first place. It's very very likely that there are many fights happened throughout those years.

[Kithelle]

Didn't Vol'jin and his father get pwnt by some murlocs?
OT: Tyrande, the only Horde leader she can't kill is Probably Thrall (for obvious reasons).

I don't know if I'd go that far...

[Zulkhan]

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Favor..._the_Darkspear

They despise night elves it seems to me.

And this one :
http://www.wowhead.com/quest=6503/ashenvale-outrunners

"The fewer 'a dem elves runnin' around, the better. "

Meh, anyone would go mad if you receive repeated attacks from someone. Also worth noting how Staghelm specifically was mentioned, one of the nicest and most lovable Night Elves history will ever remember. Likewise, a comment about thinning Outrunner numbers during a pretty aggressive war isn't any indication of deep hatred or anything, that's kinda normal. As I said, Trolls don't like Elves, at all and the sentiment is surely mutual, which doesn't mean they hold a deep grudge towards them though.

All of this doesn't even barely come close to the rooted and widely spread despise Darkspear have for Humans.

[Ramz]

Meh, anyone would go mad if you receive repeated attacks from someone. Also worth noting how Staghelm specifically was mentioned, one of the nicest and most lovable Night Elves history will ever remember. Likewise, a comment about thinning Outrunner numbers during a pretty aggressive war isn't any indication of deep hatred or anything, that's kinda normal. As I said, Trolls don't like Elves, at all and the sentiment is surely mutual, which doesn't mean they hold a deep grudge towards them though.

All of this doesn't even barely come close to the rooted and widely spread despise Darkspear have for Humans.

I'm aware of it dear , I just thrown it as "fun fact". I specially liked it becuase it can be applied to each elf xD.
But I always had impression that nevertheless Trolls don't have much regard for elves- even the ones they're allied with.

[pateuvasiliu]

Tyrande is an over 10,000 year old huntress and the Champion/High Priestess of Elune.

Vol'jin is nothing compared to her.

[Zulkhan]

But I always had impression that nevertheless Trolls don't have much regard for elves- even the ones they're allied with.

"The next step is hippogryphs.

As Master Uzer'i always said, hippogryphs have been loyal companions to the night elves for many years, an' their spirits are loyal and steadfast.

I don't think they'll miss a few, and I don't care if they do. We need the muisek of 10 frayfeather hippogryphs in the wilderness to the south."

This pretty sums it up. As I said, they more or less don't give a fuck about them.

About Blood Elves, Vol'jin has somewhat of a "polite" relationship with Lor'themar and Halduron, but I doubt Darkspear in general have any strong opinion about them, some will surely look them with suspicion and bias, others will, most likely, don't care either way.

[sam86]

This is bullshit objectively false bu 'mkay.

if i'm wrong i have np to admit it (did it in varian vs garrosh post), got official lore post that contradicts it?
also it will make vol'jin story even more conflicted

[Zulkhan]

if i'm wrong i have np to admit it (did it in varian vs garrosh post), got official lore post that contradicts it?

Oh that's easy, there's a whole part of the novel in which Vol'jin and Tyrathan have to deal alone with a Zandalari army, they're forced to play a dangerous hit-and-hide game to not instantly die, all to favor the refugees escape and pull all the Zandalari attention to the two of them alone. In the end Vol'jin is the one exposing the most (forced to guide to safety two scared villagers, if I remember correctly) and almost gets killed for that.

Sorry if I don't post links or anything but the only thing I could do is write down half a chapter or so of the novel and I don't think is that great of an idea. You should own the book and read it, for the rest there's Oggudrai who read the novel too and can confirm what I say.

also it will make vol'jin story even more conflicted

Not much, you just judge different circumstances with the same meter and that's your mistake.

[MrSaggins]

The Chosen of Elune or the Chosen of the Loa? Well I really can't see any reason to question the martial or tactical prowess of either of them, or believe that one is less than the other in those fields. So I guess the question comes down to their benefactors. Elune and the Loa are some of the most enigmatic entities in the Warcraft universe, but ultimately Vol'jin is more versatile. He can call upon any patron spirit to aid him in whatever he needs, right?

I just imagine Tyrande riding for high ground above Vol'jin only to have Ash'alah throw her to the dirt and claw at her, possessed with Shirvallah's fury, as Vol'jin escapes into the shadows to strike from his own vantage point. Hir'eek would see through any attempt Tyrande makes at surprising Vol'jin, and warn him well in advance. Gonk had been Zen'tabra's connection the Emerald Dream, and could well help him turn the forest itself against her. The ancients of the Kaldorei are Loa to the trolls, they may aid him as well. The spiritual power within this guy allowed him to survive having his throat slashed, so he could certainly take more arrows than Tyrande; physically it's like comparing Robin Hood to Wolverine. Spiritually it's another matter. The wrath of Elune ain't nothin' ta fuck with; and even with the forest, the ancients, the wisps and the whole world turned against her the raw power of The Goddess would seriously injure the chieftain. But with Bawonsamdi on his side Vol'jin is beyond death. He could not only kill Tyrande, he would hunt her through the spirit world and flay her soul.

[Zuben]

Vol'jin. He would collapse on the floor with his throat open and bleeding, then observing player characters would enter the fight, pwn Tyrande, and Vol'jin would take the credit.

It's all about the tactical genius, mon.

[Arrashi]

The Chosen of Elune or the Chosen of the Loa? Well I really can't see any reason to question the martial or tactical prowess of either of them, or believe that one is less than the other in those fields. So I guess the question comes down to their benefactors. Elune and the Loa are some of the most enigmatic entities in the Warcraft universe, but ultimately Vol'jin is more versatile. He can call upon any patron spirit to aid him in whatever he needs, right?

I just imagine Tyrande riding for high ground above Vol'jin only to have Ash'alah throw her to the dirt and claw at her, possessed with Shirvallah's fury, as Vol'jin escapes into the shadows to strike from his own vantage point. Hir'eek would see through any attempt Tyrande makes at surprising Vol'jin, and warn him well in advance. Gonk had been Zen'tabra's connection the Emerald Dream, and could well help him turn the forest itself against her. The ancients of the Kaldorei are Loa to the trolls, they may aid him as well. The spiritual power within this guy allowed him to survive having his throat slashed, so he could certainly take more arrows than Tyrande; physically it's like comparing Robin Hood to Wolverine. Spiritually it's another matter. The wrath of Elune ain't nothin' ta fuck with; and even with the forest, the ancients, the wisps and the whole world turned against her the raw power of The Goddess would seriously injure the chieftain. But with Bawonsamdi on his side Vol'jin is beyond death. He could not only kill Tyrande, he would hunt her through the spirit world and flay her soul.

Wow, vol'jin sure is badass ! Makes you wonder why he ends up in begging position so often. Is it possible that he begs for help so he can share his glory with others ? Or maybe he just consider his enemies unworthy of personal intervention ?

As for vol'jin tactical prowess:

Iron Juggernaunt says hi.