Is there too much "excessive" RNG?

[Krazzorx]

One of the things that tends to cause me to get the most frustrated in Hearthstone is some of the cards that have incredible rng swings.

I don't mind things like rag going for face when you have 8 hp left and a full board. Obviously losing that way is not particularly fun, but to me feels normal.

What doesn't to me is things like shredder popping a doomsayer or an unstable portal giving a Mage Varian. To me, that's just too much RNG. It feels far too much outside "normal" card rng limits.

[Boogums]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9ZI9kMsvRQ sums up my thoughts.

High risk high reward also comes with high chance for failure. I don't think the RNG is too excessive. For every loss I get due to unbelievable RNG, I get a win for the same amount.

[Faltemer]

I mean it likely is quite a bit more then most normal actual card games, since the online aspect allows them such. As for the question i think there is way way way too much gamebreaking RNG. And it almost always ends up as net loss of fun for the game overall. And then on top of that negates the little skill that is needed for this game replacing it with a wheel of fortune for who ends up winning regardless of how many terrible moves they made in a game. This is already a card game so you know you might draw poorly or whatever, but to add on top the sheer amount of ridiiclous things that can swing games completely is prepestorous.

And their reasoning is just awful, they claim they want players to have to work with contingency plans and the like if their rng doesn't go their way. But the game rarely works like that. Mostly it's either something like knife juggler which means how many knives go where each player wants them, with neither player often having too much control. And this is one of the lowest rng costing cards and still there is so rarely little room for changing plans if things go bad. Things like Sylv or rag are hit the right target or I lose 90% of the time.

Shredder is a great example of a poorly designed card (it's played way too much with too little regard to the deck it is placed in, it is just too damn good). that couples along with ridiclous unneeded RNG. From captain's parrot to millhouse is too big of a cap for a random effect. It's the difference of a 5/4 and a 8/7 for 4, which is damn ridiclous.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Hearthstone has significantly more RNG than any other card game that I've played... Sometimes, that frustrates me a bit... However, it does keep the game better balanced, I suppose.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Subjectively, absolutely. Objectively? I haven't a clue, I just know I don't enjoy the game enough to invest time into it.

[Deleted]

Some cards are way too random IMO. Unstable Portal is one of them, the outcome is just TOO random. You can get a wisp and lose the game or you can get Dr Boom for 4 and win the game.

At least cards like Shredder have a set in stone outcome. It will be a 2-drop. From sneeds it will be a legendary minion. From Recomb, it will be a minion with equal mana cost. From unstable portal it can be ANYTHING! And that's bullshit design imo.

[Lotus Victoria]

I think that that is what makes Hearthstone quite unique. Randomness is what makes HS fun as hell, and frustrating as hell too.

[aloak]

http://teammetaminds.com/blog/lets-talk-rng

[haxartus]

Poker appears to be very random, much more random than HS, but in reality it involves a lot of strategy, mathematics and psychology, and in the long run the best players win. The outcome of a single game is often not decided by skill, but the outcome of a 1000 games is almost definitely decided by skill.
Of course the game is very brutal, you should be able to lose several games to RNG and still not let it influence your play, and this is something that even the best HS players can't seem to do.

[Raiju]

Poker appears to be very random, much more random than HS, but in reality it involves a lot of strategy, mathematics and psychology, and in the long run the best players win. The outcome of a single game is often not decided by skill, but the outcome of a 1000 games is almost definitely decided by skill.
Of course the game is very brutal, you should be able to lose several games to RNG and still not let it influence your play, and this is something that even the best HS players can't seem to do.

Hearthstone is still in a fairly amateur-ish stage at the moment. The original crop of pro's will either improve or be phased out.

OT: Hearthstone's RNG is its niche and what will likely help it keep fresh for longer.

[Ryme]

I think that unstable portal represents too much RNG personally, often it can feel like "roll a dice to win the game". Other than that, I think the amount of RNG is reasonable.

[Deleted]

yeah unstable portal into king crush lucky enough to have a cheap tank down then swipe wrath.

effigy into aviana (it doesnt take the portals cost reduction) that I kill with starfall, he rolls me over with antonidis a turn or two later.

RNG won him the game, nothing else.

There is enough rng in a card game without the need for things like that, also from UP you need a 4 drop to make it worth the use, obviously there are some useless card but ... number of useful cards > number of not useful cards ...

[Krazzorx]

Hearthstone is still in a fairly amateur-ish stage at the moment. The original crop of pro's will either improve or be phased out.

OT: Hearthstone's RNG is its niche and what will likely help it keep fresh for longer.

I do like Hearthstone's RNG overall because you can do stuff like knife juggler which is impossible to do in other games and isn't going to win or lose games by itself.

It's just some of the extremely heavy rng cards like shredder where you can't really play around it I think is too much.

[Deleted]

Unstable Portal IMO is far worse than random spell cards that are in the game - namely Nefarian and the ethereal dude from TGT.
While you can get useful spell, it's not as broken as Dr Boom for 4 mana or something similar to that. There are many, MANY shitty spells in the game. You can get something like Deadly Poision on a class without a weapon, or Shield Slam on a class that cannot proc any armor. These cards also can be played efficiently at later turns in the game where your opponent can easily find an answer.

[matt4pack]

Most of the hated RNG cards can be fixed easily but we know Blizzard never will. Like unstable portal the fix would be to show your opponent what the card is. I don't have a problem with shredder because it's specific saying 2 mana card. All RNG cards need to be more specific about the RNG.

Like knife juggler should be start at the left most minion and move right each turn. Spell Slinger would be ok if both got the same spell. But Blizzard likes ruining their game.

[Raiju]

I do like Hearthstone's RNG overall because you can do stuff like knife juggler which is impossible to do in other games and isn't going to win or lose games by itself.

It's just some of the extremely heavy rng cards like shredder where you can't really play around it I think is too much.

Don't get me wrong I fucking despise the RNG - but it keeps me coming back now and then as games can go very unexpectedly.

[Deleted]

RNG goes both ways, sometimes you are the sad guy crying in the corner other times your opponent is the one left crying in the corner. Can't deny however that I can get extremely salty when someone I am playing against is making mistakes after mistakes but every piece of RNG is going in his favor and this gets him the win (7 guys on my board, 1 on his, he brawls his guy stays alive; my Rag hitting face when the opponent has 3 big creatures on his side of the board right after his own Rag sniped my big creature instead of the crappy 1/1s that I have in their company; Bane of Doom spawning Mal'Ganis or Doomguards; Implosion ALWAYS hitting for 4 when it absolutely needed to hit for 4; Warriors getting Portal from Nefarian and Deathwing from portal; Warriors without any hard removal or Brawl getting Poison Seeds from Nefarian and wiping my Aviana dream board; mages getting the EXACT card they needed on portals; opponents topdecking perfect answers after perfect answers,etc).

[Raiju]

I'll put it this way how RNG goes for me.

My average roll over the past 6 months in D20 is a 4.8

Out of the last 20 shredders I've played, 4 of the minions that came out were Darnassus Aspirants (effectively a 2/3 lose a mana crystal), another 2 of those were nat pagle, and 1 doombringer (I had a landslide board advantage!)

RNG in any form of game likes to routinely take a dump on me. I daresay it's just the standard.

[Ravex]

I'll put it this way how RNG goes for me.

My average roll over the past 6 months in D20 is a 4.8

Out of the last 20 shredders I've played, 4 of the minions that came out were Darnassus Aspirants (effectively a 2/3 lose a mana crystal), another 2 of those were nat pagle, and 1 doombringer (I had a landslide board advantage!)

RNG in any form of game likes to routinely take a dump on me. I daresay it's just the standard.

I got Rnged in a game and have to make a post to let my voice be heard.

Great new topic.

[Twoddle]

Excessive is by definition too much but yeah there is random number generation in Hearthstone, just enough to keep everyone playing otherwise the crap players would lose interest. Take it as it is, if you don't like it don't play.