Expansion News: Level Adjustment

[quras]

With the recent closed PTR information on the upcoming expansion and someone leaking it out.

What do you think of everyone be adjusted to lower levels depending on the planet they are on or the heroics they go into? Some are referring it to GW2.

If it cannot be toggled off / on, you will no longer be able to face roll older content for deco or achievements or just for a bit of fun helping out a lower leveled friend.

If it cannot be toggled off I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of being level 65 and scaled back to level 12 just because I went to Tython.

[Kelathos]

Being scaled to play with new players, or lower level alts, is an ideal feature that has been needed for years.
I'd welcome it as a toggle / optional feature.

[quras]

I don't have a problem with the feature.

Just that you currently cannot toggle it off.

I don't always play for the challenge. There are times we love to go back and face roll old content to help others in the guild. Get decos and finish out some achievements.

I don't really need the mobs I killed on Koriban to suddenly be any real threat for my max level Dark Council Sorc. I'm doubt I'd find that entertaining all the time.

[Edge-]

Yeah what's the point of leveling up, if that higher level shows no effect. Might as well just get rid of levels.

Unlocking new zones/content without making older content completely obsolete. It's actually a pretty solid idea if the developers want to preserve the game world in a sense.

So if I'm understanding this correct, you automatically scale down to the level range of the world you travel to? If so, I'm pretty cool with this.

[quras]

But then just get rid of levels. Just make it so that I can do any zone at any time.

A nerf or a bolster depending on where you go?

Hell, I don't think I could support that in an MMO like SWTOR. It's bad now sometimes but so many more would have no clue how to play their toons getting bolstered up to far and gaining new skills and such.

Let me take that back, I guess you would have to start out with everything and it all just moved on a slider depending on where you go. That might work in what you're saying but damn that would be a huge SW change I don't think would go over well at all.

I think the down scaling is a decent feature but damn it needs a toggle. I'm having enough trouble accepting old content being scaled up (ops and FP) much less me being scaled down for an old planet and it's old content.

[Edge-]

But then just get rid of levels. Just make it so that I can do any zone at any time.

But they still want to gate zones by level so that they can enforce a linear story. Getting rid of levels would break this up and potentially confuse new players.

- - - Updated - - -

Hell, I don't think I could support that in an MMO like SWTOR. It's bad now sometimes but so many more would have no clue how to play their toons getting bolstered up to far and gaining new skills and such.

Rift has it and it works quite well, actually. Bolstering primarily only takes place in dungeons (when you're a bit too low level), instant adventures (where it will toss you in max level groups), and can be done manually with friends/guildies (where one would assume you are being helped), so it doesn't really cause too much confusion. It doesn't grant any new skills, but it does grant additional effects based on what talents you would have on abilities. It's a nice way to increase flexibility without increasing complexity too much.

[xuros]

Unlocking new zones/content without making older content completely obsolete. It's actually a pretty solid idea if the developers want to preserve the game world in a sense.

So if I'm understanding this correct, you automatically scale down to the level range of the world you travel to? If so, I'm pretty cool with this.

Screw that lol. I liked farming for decos while not needing to roll on it with others. Time to offload my account since they are going to this. No new raids, repainted old raids, and no soloing old content. Pretty much a no go for me atm.

[Edge-]

Screw that lol. I liked farming for decos while not needing to roll on it with others. Time to offload my account since they are going to this. No new raids, repainted old raids, and no soloing old content. Pretty much a no go for me atm.

It's not confirmed yet, enhance your calm.

Assuming it does scale you down, though, I'd imagine it will be like most scaling in MMO's and you'll still be far more powerful than normal characters at your level. In GW2/Rift, for example, you're vastly more powerful due to either having additional abilities that you wouldn't normally have or simply by virtue of having stats that you wouldn't have access to at that level. So it's still easy to go back and farm old stuff if you want.

[Kelimbror]

I need more information because the idea as stated doesn't work with their content design. Beyond artificially extending content, what value is gained from making Black Hole dailies suddenly challenging at the new level cap? There is none. SWTOR is very traditionally structured like WoW and has no perceivable benefits from doing this if it is forced.

If it is a toggle, it's a non issue. I think every MMO should have optional downscaling that provides appropriate level rewards. If I got increased rep and currency gains from doing dailies at the proper level, ok. But the same useless rewards for more effort? No.

[RohanV]

There was another image where it showed planetary heroics being offered as a weekly for max level. So this might be a situation to encourage max level players to go back and do those heroics at an appropriate difficulty.

[Edge-]

There was another image where it showed planetary heroics being offered as a weekly for max level. So this might be a situation to encourage max level players to go back and do those heroics at an appropriate difficulty.

There's absolutely value to this type of thing. Having max level players returning to "old" planets/zones serves the dual purpose of keeping them populated for players who are leveling and giving those planets more of a sense of permanence/reality. It's kinda silly when you think of the fact that an entire planet somehow becomes trivial after all of a dozen hours tops.

[quras]

There's absolutely value to this type of thing. Having max level players returning to "old" planets/zones serves the dual purpose of keeping them populated for players who are leveling and giving those planets more of a sense of permanence/reality. It's kinda silly when you think of the fact that an entire planet somehow becomes trivial after all of a dozen hours tops.

No more silly than it taking multiple hits of a lightsaber to kill someone. No more silly then a Jedi beating about any citizen. Just how far do you take the "silly"? Taking a highly skilled level 65 Jedi and handicapping his ass because he went to visit Coruscant? Not a fan.

I'm not saying its not a decent feature to down scale gamers but there really needs to be a toggle.

I do not like this at all.

Part of the appeal of RPG's has always been an increase in personal power and things like this work directly against that. You lose any sense of advancement when the bunny that nearly killed you at level 1 can still nearly kill you at level 100, what is the point of all those levels now?

Make it a toggle for people who actually want it and I'm fine with it. But if this is implemented in old content then I will lose any interest in bothering with that old content.

That me except I can see some value in it but only if there is a toggle of some sort to opt out if I visit some random planet.

Do it through the group finder and its fine as a feature. Go directly to the planet or entrance yourself and you should be able to opt out. I enjoy running battle for ilum solo for a particular deco that is nice to have and sells well. I enjoy a guildie that says, "hey, anyone interested to rolling me though "X" planet heroic?" Then heading over to get it done ASAP. I got little interest in turning something that old into a full fledged group adventure. To many instances like that I enjoy to suddenly have so much scaling.

[Edge-]

No more silly than it taking multiple hits of a lightsaber to kill someone. No more silly then a Jedi beating about any citizen. Just how far do you take the "silly"? Taking a highly skilled level 65 Jedi and handicapping his ass because he went to visit Coruscant? Not a fan.

Heh, the problems of trying to stuff a super narrative/story heavy game into a MMO, especially one where you have so little control over the rules like Star Wars. It's been a problem since day one, as more often than not game design and narrative/lore clash heavily.

[quras]

Heh, the problems of trying to stuff a super narrative/story heavy game into a MMO, especially one where you have so little control over the rules like Star Wars. It's been a problem since day one, as more often than not game design and narrative/lore clash heavily.

Agreed but in a level based system in gaming, there are merits to descaling players to particular content but there are just as many reasons for keeping the ability to opt out of it.

Otherwise, you trivialize the entire leveling process and in my book and that isn't fun or interesting at this point in SWTOR. (or any leveling based game now that I think about it.)

[Goshko]

What do you think of everyone be adjusted to lower levels depending on the planet they are on or the heroics they go into?

If it cannot be toggled off / on, you will no longer be able to face roll older content for deco or achievements or just for a bit of fun helping out a lower leveled friend.

If it cannot be toggled off I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of being level 65 and scaled back to level 12 just because I went to Tython.

If it can be toggled on/off I won't think of it, or use it, at all.

If it's not optional It'll change my visits to low level planets from rarely to never.

I did it once at appropriate level and have no desire to repeat the process on the same character with a handicap at max. And I'll keep my skills from level 65 which means it wont be a hard or interesting or challenging - just tedious and slow.

There was another image where it showed planetary heroics being offered as a weekly for max level. So this might be a situation to encourage max level players to go back and do those heroics at an appropriate difficulty.

Getting scaled to planet level if you want to do that weekly is fine. You get to roflstomp some low level heroics and not feel silly for getting high level rewards rewards for doing low level content with little to no effort.

I mean you're doing just that, because let face it, no way they can scale you back to anywhere appropriate for say Tatooine at 65, but you'll feel better.

[Deleted]

Sounds like a terrible idea.

I fully support including an optional feature like that for operations and flashpoints, but for outdoor content? Nope.

[Katchii]

If it's a toggle or enforced only when doing the content that is meant to be scaled down, I support it. On all the time... not so much.

[quras]

I'm thinking along the lines of if you want to go back and do Trouble with Deeds (an H4 quest) or any planet heroic stuff and do it through group finder. You can get scaled appropriately.

You want to go to coruscant yourself? No scaling at all. Not in open world as you make your way and not in instances either. A toggle option should want to descale yourself as you enter the instance while on the planet.

[Svifnymr]

There's absolutely value to this type of thing. Having max level players returning to "old" planets/zones serves the dual purpose of keeping them populated for players who are leveling and giving those planets more of a sense of permanence/reality. It's kinda silly when you think of the fact that an entire planet somehow becomes trivial after all of a dozen hours tops.

I don't have an issue with the downscaling, but the rewards in TOR are group-based rather than individual based like GW2. Hard to have loot scale if half of a group is level 20 while the others are level 65. There does have to be a motivation to go revisit these places. Same with gathering, though that may be changing anyway, I forget.

[karumayu]

^Agree with the above poster. If the down scaling has to work, there has to be a different reward structure.