Loot Bolster - Incentive to Stay

[I Push Buttons]

What if Blizzard added a system whereby failed attempts increased your chances of getting a piece of loot via bonus roll when you finally downed the boss?

For you people who leave groups at the first sign of trouble, would this entice you to stay? Say you got 5% per stack or something of that sort, would you be willing to stick with it through the wipes, help the group, etc., knowing that after 10 wipes you would be at 10 stacks would have a 50% increased chance of getting loot via a bonus roll?

This is more aimed at pugs, even though guild groups would obviously benefit from it as well. And I guess such a system could theoretically be exploited if you could convince your group to get the boss to 50% or whatever the threshold for a stack would be and then intentionally wipe over and over, which I doubt people would be willing to do.

If such a system existed, I would think it would be prudent that it was character specific, so you aren't punished if you join a different group or don't get the boss down in one night, etc...

I see this more as rewarding persistence than rewarding failure, for those who might see it as the latter.

[Spray]

But then what about people who are just more organized and one-shot the bosses? Isn't it like the counter-incentive for them to blaze through the content?

While people wouldn't probably be willing to wipe over and over, as you said yourself, it could still be considered as slightly unfair, since bonus roll is not LFR-exclusive.

[Hyve]

It'd suck to use up my percentage on a boss I already have loot from though. Say I wanted something of Archimonde, but we're doing a full clear. Once it procs on Xhul (or whatever you do as the tenth boss) I'd be guaranteed loot, but I wouldn't want it.

[I Push Buttons]

It'd suck to use up my percentage on a boss I already have loot from though. Say I wanted something of Archimonde, but we're doing a full clear. Once it procs on Xhul (or whatever you do as the tenth boss) I'd be guaranteed loot, but I wouldn't want it.

Boss specific, like LFR bolster.

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But then what about people who are just more organized and one-shot the bosses? Isn't it like the counter-incentive for them to blaze through the content?

No? They are actually downing the content and getting gear... If a group or guild or whatever spends a night or two nights wiping on a boss they are getting nothing.

Likewise a pug falls apart because literally all they get from wiping over and over is wasted time.

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So the worse you play the more chance you have at loot? Need gear? Just wipe a bunch before killing the boss. Sounds like a crap idea.

So if a boss takes like 10 minutes and the bolster threshold was 50%, you think a group or guild would be willing to reset/wipe over and over just to get the bolster?

If they had 100% efficiency and 100% up time, it would take them 50 minutes just to get 50% increased chance... On ONE single boss...

[chooi]

So the worse you play the more chance you have at loot? Need gear? Just wipe a bunch before killing the boss. Sounds like a crap idea.

^ This. I've got nothing more to add.

[Hyve]

Boss specific, like LFR bolster.

Nah, just let people learn from the fights, rather than reward failure.

[I Push Buttons]

It take 2 seconds to wipe to a boss. Someone pulls, they FD or go Invis and you have a wipe. Or you can simply not heal anyone. Either way there are 0 bosses it would take an hour to wipe 10x on.

Do you not understand the word threshold or have you just ignored me saying that not just once, but several times?

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Nah, just let people learn from the fights, rather than reward failure.

Good thing pugs have an attitude like that and are willing to just sit around wiping all night.

Oh wait.

[smokii]

What if Blizzard added a system whereby failed attempts increased your chances of getting a piece of loot via bonus roll when you finally downed the boss?

For you people who leave groups at the first sign of trouble, would this entice you to stay? Say you got 5% per stack or something of that sort, would you be willing to stick with it through the wipes, help the group, etc., knowing that after 10 wipes you would be at 10 stacks would have a 50% increased chance of getting loot via a bonus roll?

This is more aimed at pugs, even though guild groups would obviously benefit from it as well. And I guess such a system could theoretically be exploited if you could convince your group to get the boss to 50% or whatever the threshold for a stack would be and then intentionally wipe over and over, which I doubt people would be willing to do.

If such a system existed, I would think it would be prudent that it was character specific, so you aren't punished if you join a different group or don't get the boss down in one night, etc...

I see this more as rewarding persistence than rewarding failure, for those who might see it as the latter.

how about people that leave groups before a boss is killed because of a wipe don't get any loot from that boss for the week as punishment for being bad?

people should be punished for playing like dicks, not rewarded for sticking around after a wipe. that shit should be expected.

[Deleted]

Boss specific, like LFR bolster.

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No? They are actually downing the content and getting gear... If a group or guild or whatever spends a night or two nights wiping on a boss they are getting nothing.

Likewise a pug falls apart because literally all they get from wiping over and over is wasted time.

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So if a boss takes like 10 minutes and the bolster threshold was 50%, you think a group or guild would be willing to reset/wipe over and over just to get the bolster?

If they had 100% efficiency and 100% up time, it would take them 50 minutes just to get 50% increased chance... On ONE single boss...

Your reasoning is off.

You think time is the constraint on hardcore progression? Gear is the biggest roadblock. Your scheme promotes intentional failure to increase loot drop chance, which is what guilds would be after. Recovering from a wipe takes no time at all for organized guilds, so initiating a few wipes to bolster your loot chance will yield greater results than saving a little amount of time to move on to the next boss, with less loot in your pockets.

For LFR it's unnecessary as this is an irrelevant level of play anyway. People will leave even if they get a higher loot chance upon wiping. The Determination stacks provide that indirectly as well by giving the group a higher chance to clear the encounter and thus get loot, vs. wiping all night and getting no loot.

[lunchbox2042]

This is a silly system. You pretty much want to reward people for constantly failing.

[Deleted]

Do you not understand the word threshold or have you just ignored me saying that not just once, but several times?

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Good thing pugs have an attitude like that and are willing to just sit around wiping all night.

Oh wait.

Translated: i had a terrible PUG last night.

[Deleted]

Because the only reason to ever set foot in a raid is just the loot, amiright?

[I Push Buttons]

Because the only reason to ever set foot in a raid is just the loot, amiright?

According to pugs?

Yes

[Deleted]

The RNG is already rigged. They have officially said drops depend on raid composition. Also I suspect intricate rigging is done, e.g. personal loot giving more weapons if you have a really crappy weapon.


People often deny it because their N=1 said otherwise once.

But official statements and common experience don't lie.



PS. They were rigging the RNG in other parts of the game at least since WotLK. On an official interview they had said back then that quests will drop a quest item on a higher probability if you were unlucky the first few kills of the quest mobs.

[DreamwingBE]

What if Blizzard added a system whereby failed attempts increased your chances of getting a piece of loot via bonus roll when you finally downed the boss?

Personally, I'd rather we encouraged LFR players to improve how they play by REDUCING their bonus loot chance the more they wipe, but you start with a much higher bonus loot base rate.

e.g. 100% bonus roll chance on first pull, reducing X% per wipe, drops off rapidly but then smooths out.

Get it down on your 1st attempt and get a nice 100% guaranteed treat for doing so.
Get it down on your 5th attempt and get 20% chance (which is still good of course).
Get it down on your 10th attempt, and it takes a piece of gear from you haha (-20%)!

Just thinking out loud!

[Hyve]

Good thing pugs have an attitude like that and are willing to just sit around wiping all night.

Because rewarding failure is going to be a far better solution, than taking a stance of; "Either put the effort in and work together, or continuously fail, your call."

[FuxieDK]

What if Blizzard added a system whereby failed attempts increased your chances of getting a piece of loot via bonus roll when you finally downed the boss?

For you people who leave groups at the first sign of trouble, would this entice you to stay? Say you got 5% per stack or something of that sort, would you be willing to stick with it through the wipes, help the group, etc., knowing that after 10 wipes you would be at 10 stacks would have a 50% increased chance of getting loot via a bonus roll?

This is more aimed at pugs, even though guild groups would obviously benefit from it as well. And I guess such a system could theoretically be exploited if you could convince your group to get the boss to 50% or whatever the threshold for a stack would be and then intentionally wipe over and over, which I doubt people would be willing to do.

If such a system existed, I would think it would be prudent that it was character specific, so you aren't punished if you join a different group or don't get the boss down in one night, etc...

I see this more as rewarding persistence than rewarding failure, for those who might see it as the latter.

If you increase loot chance, you reduce the likelyness of people running instances (5man AND raids) multiple times..

The less times you run instances, the faster you'll complain about lack of content..

[Raugnaut]

IF this was to be implemented, it would need be be something extremely small so that wiping is not incentivized - Lets say 1% increased chance for the bonus roll to give gear per wipe, with a cap of 30% extra bonus. Bonus Rolls currently have what looks like a 20% chance to give loot, so if you wipe, say, 10 times on a boss (Normal for Normal/Heroic progression) you get a 30% chance to get bonus loot. Whereas when you wipe 164 times on Mythic Archimonde, you only get a flat 50% boost (Meaning that half the raid group will get bonus loot from roll).

Having a small bonus, and capping it so that its not loot-for-everyone when downing a difficult Mythic progression boss would work fine imo.

[Tharkkun]

They had bonus roll protection in MOP but for some stupid reason they removed it in WOD.

[Zephyrion1602]

intentionally wipe over and over, which I doubt people would be willing to do.

People would ABSOLUTELY be willing to wipe over and over. People would wipe twenty times for 100%. Guild groups would totally do that.