"It is a little late, after you are both undressed, to say: "I don’t want this.""

[Deleted]

Against Our Will Author on What Today’s Rape Activists Don’t Get

http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/09/what...b-share-thecut

Susan Brownmiller, who published the groundbreaking Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape in 1975, takes issue with the current conversation around sexual assault.

She believes it's unrealistic for women to think they can drink like men and still be safe, and that women are responsible for keeping themselves out of dangerous situations.

The 80-year-old is also concerned the campus activist movement ignores the experiences of women of color and low socioeconomic status, whom she says are statistically more likely to be assaulted.

They have been tremendously influenced by the idea that "You can drink as much as you want because you are the equal of a guy," and it is not true. They don't accept the fact there are predators out there, and that all women have to take special precautions. They think they can drink as much as men, which is crazy because they can't drink as much as men. I find the position "Don't blame us, we're survivors" to be appalling.

Also, they [college women] are not the chief targets of rapists. Young women and all women in housing projects and ghettos are still in far greater danger than college girls.

The women's movement in the '70s was not a campus movement at all. I like to see activism wherever it rears its head, but this is a very limited movement that doesn't accept reality. Culture may tell you, "You can drink as much as men," but you can't. People think they can have it all ways. The slut marches bothered me, too, when they said you can wear whatever you want. Well sure, but you look like a hooker. They say, "That doesn't matter," but it matters to the man who wants to rape. It's unrealistic. I don't know what happened to the understanding people had in the 1970s.

And my feeling about young women trapped in sex situations that they don’t want is: "Didn’t you see the warning signs? Who do you expect to do your fighting for you?"

It is a little late, after you are both undressed, to say "I don’t want this."

[Elegiac]

It is a little late, after you are both undressed, to say "I don’t want this."

Complete bullshit.

This entire argument is nothing but victim-blaming.

[Grim32]

Yes? No? That's part of the article. Is there a question here? Like, do we agree with this?

If so, partially.

Complete bullshit.

This entire argument is nothing but victim-blaming.

Victim blaming - I love that reasoning. Victim blaming is a new term. I'm not using it as a 100% get out of jail free card for anyone who says 'she was dressed that way.' But there is definitely a 'trigger' for what will set off a trigger and how you dress is definitely one of them. Look at how SOME people (specifically Muslims in mind - regarding the German rape thread) act around scantily dress women. Do I agree women deserve to get raped? No. But it certainly doesn't do them any favors and they were probably LESS likely to get raped when NOT looking like a hooker.

[drwelfare]

Next time she wants money or me to pay for something to sleep with me, I'll stop payment on the check because she was a predator.

[Deleted]

That's not late.

[SL1200]

If she says stop, and you don't, you're a rapist. Period.

[Herecius]

Next time she wants money or me to pay for something to sleep with me, I'll stop payment on the check because she was a predator.

You seem to be confusing prostitutes with significant others. I can understand that confusion, naturally. It's very easy to make that mistake.

[Daita Tetsu]

Complete bullshit.

This entire argument is nothing but victim-blaming.

Yeah, once something bad happens to you, you are absolved of all blame.

I mean, a monk with a swastika(symbol for eternity) tattoed on his chest with a shaved head walks through 8 mile, completely not his fault when he gets his ass beat. Someone should have told that gang not to violence.

Also he wasnt a monk he was a clansman. But you cant tell him how to dress, or not to walk through 8 mile. Thats just victim blaming.

[Herecius]

Yeah, once something bad happens to you, you are absolved of all blame.

I mean, a monk with a swastika(symbol for eternity) tattoed on his chest with a shaved head walks through 8 mile, completely not his fault when he gets his ass beat. Someone should have told that gang not to violence.

Also he wasnt a monk he was a clansman. But you cant tell him how to dress, or not to walk through 8 mile. Thats just victim blaming.

.........what

I feel like this post is written in a cipher somehow.

[Daita Tetsu]

If she says stop, and you don't, you're a rapist. Period.

Just to clarify, I completely agree with this. I just find the "you're victim blaming" movement to be a joke

[Veyne]

It is a little late, after you are both undressed, to say "I don’t want this."

It doesn't matter if you've had your dick in her (or him, for that matter) for twenty fucking minutes. If they decide they don't want it anymore, and tell you to stop, you fucking stop.

[Aquinan]

It is a little late, after you are both undressed, to say "I don’t want this."

Totally within the womans rights, its a kinda shitty thing to do at that point, but its her choice, and it should be respected.

[Daita Tetsu]

.........what

hyperbole and being ridiculous :P

[Herecius]

Just to clarify, I completely agree with this. I just find the "you're victim blaming" movement to be a joke

The victim-blaming thing comes more from who is actually saying it. The woman writing the article has recently gone very much out of her way to talk about how her own rape - and that of many others - is their own fault.

EDIT: I am mistaken! I am thinking of another aged woman recently who was doing exactly this.

[Deleted]

If she says stop, and you don't, you're a rapist. Period.

I think that's her point.

You see, a normal man, when she says stop, will always stop.

Rapists won't ie: "it's already too late"

Also, way to ignore one of her main points:

Also, they [college women] are not the chief targets of rapists. Young women and all women in housing projects and ghettos are still in far greater danger than college girls.

[Deleted]

Complete bullshit.

This entire argument is nothing but victim-blaming.

True - De jure anyone have the right to withdraw consent at any point - De facto however - You may want to do things differently.
- But Xarim - This chic is like hated by current feminists, they don't like appeals to 'reality'

[Aquinan]

It's not a shitty thing to do.

It is, do it earlier.

[ComputerNerd]

No means no, regardless of when you say it.

[Alvito]

It is never too late. At some point if either person wants to stop, then you stop. It doesn't matter why the person wants to stop just that they do.

[Deleted]

You're a freakin creep.

OK people really need to learn to read the quote marks.

The whole OP is quotes from an article written about a feminist who literally "wrote the book on consent".

I am not that person.

I didn't write the article, and I wasn't the interviewee.