Meaning of words

[braus]

Whats up with the degeneration of some words nowadays? Subjectively of course, i feel like its accepted more and more to just stand your ground with either a new meaning of an existing word or a new word altogether. Eventually aslong as you and others sympathising with you are loud enough and say again and again that you represent something diffuse like the left hemisphere, the environment, some civil rights movment with a fancy name or a big religion, something that you know the media wont touch or make trouble with, you will get your way.

We have racism which nowadays both include the original mindset and the acts that comes from it, missunderstandings, lazy accusations, smearings and university level activist studies.

Fascism, which is used almost exactly the same way as stalin would have wanted against all opposition, to a varying degree, before it once more realign for the new enemy popping up, when the stalinists themselves were the embodiment of big brother society.

Phobia words, which instead of dealing with someones problem of another persons thoughts and opinions just goes straight to setting a clinical term on them.

Science, whose goodwill is picked up both by political ideologies and religious intellectuals, adapted and then put to use for their own current biased ideology.

Words put together with an already established meaning, like climate change, which suddenly pops up and becomes used by politicans.

[Revi]

People want to apply the "worst" possible word to someone they disagree with, because it gives them power. You could make great arguments or hear someone out, but it's not as effective as super emotionally charged words. This is hardly a leftist phenomenon though, everyone does it.

Loads of power in the right words. There's a reason why companies spend loads of money and have focus groups to figure out the right words to use to sell something.

[Fencers]

Whats up with the degeneration of some words nowadays?

Language is fluid. It changes all the time. This is not a negative- this is how we create new meanings and more acute ways of conveying ideas relative to our experience.


“The limits of your language are the limits of your world.”

― Wittgenstein

[zenkai]

We need clear meaning of words, I hate when people try to change them, the reason I hate it is because it seems most people can't grasp context, you see it in these forums all the time. You can say one thing and someone will take it totally left field.

[hellhamster]

Just learn ancient Greek and Latin m8s, you can understand the original meaning of every word ever.

[Simulacrum]

Language is fluid. It changes all the time. This is not a negative- this is how we create new meanings and more acute ways of conveying ideas relative to our experience.

It can easily be a negative. For example, when someone deliberately conflates unrelated words and ideas to manipulate the listener into associating one with the other when there is no association.

Sure, pedants may be clinging to their overly strict interpretations for longer than is wise, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here and abandon consistency and rigour entirely.

[Revi]

Language is fluid. It changes all the time. This is not a negative- this is how we create new meanings and more acute ways of conveying ideas relative to our experience.


“The limits of your language are the limits of your world.”

― Wittgenstein

Words evolve, but it's a negative if it diminishes our ability to accurately express ourselves. Watering down "powerful" words to the point where they loose their original ability to accurately convey an idea is not a gain unless the areas we've started using them weren't already possible to express with other words. I think the OP is talking about things like "racism", "sexism", "-phobia", even "scientific". Words that are misused for rhetoric gain, and now gradually losing their severity because of it.

Not all change is good change.

[Super Kami Dende]

The "words change all the time" thing is a bit of a Cop out when people try and give them new meaning every 2 months.

Specific words like Racism and Sexism and such should ALWAYS have a solid and definite meaning.

The fact you get idiots that use the words Racism or Sexism on things that are nowhere close in a means to try and win their side of a debate through ad hominem attacks is just plain idiocy.

Also creation of moronic buzzwords like mansplaining or manspreading shouldn't be encouraged since it just gives rise to idiots parroting other idiots.

[Wildtree]

Factually, one would have to refer to Carlin's entire catalog. Because that's what he did. Dealing with language as a whole. He was (and still is) the undisputed master of the English language and it's nonsensical (mis)use.

[Fencers]

It can easily be a negative. For example, when someone deliberately conflates unrelated words and ideas to manipulate the listener into associating one with the other when there is no association.

Be nimble with your understanding of language.

Words evolve, but it's a negative if it diminishes our ability to accurately express ourselves.

This has rarely been the case historically. Most linguistic studies take as a general rule that human language and the meaning in it's expression is part of Increasing Complexity.

Even languages left alone, otherwise isolated from cross linguistic influence, developed Increasing Complexity.

It is in our nature. Nothing will cease it from occurring.

[Stormdash]

"Language is fluid" is a rather paltry reassurance when the thrust of the complaint is not natural ebb and flow of common usage and dialectic adaptation, but instead Orwellian force deployed against language.

[Simulacrum]

I heard someone accused of being "racist towards old people" in a local political debate a while ago.

Truly, a more acute way of expressing new ideas and a more profound meaning relative to the experiences of the speaker. This use of the term is thus, apparently, not a negative.

Clearly, the people who are wrong are those of us who don't use words this carelessly. We're missing out! In fact, I'll start using words this way starting right now. Man, can't wait to tell people how it's wrong to be racist towards red meat. They'll think I'm on the forefront of our evolving language right here, with my acute and nimble grasp of its many complex nuances. That'll really get me the respect I deserve.

[Rukh]

The French have tried to set up a school of official language to prevent French from changing and they've failed fairly completely.

[Kontinuum]

Some things never change wink wink nudge nudge

Ic eom wunderlicu wiht, wifum on hyhte,
neahbuendum nyt. Nængum sceþþe
burgsittendra nymþe bonan anum.
Staþol min is steapheah; stonde ic on bedde,
neoþan ruh nathwær. Neþeð hwilum
ful cyrtenu ceorles dohtor,
modwlonc meowle, þæt heo on mec gripeð,
ræseð mec on reodne, reafað min heafod,
fegeð mec on fæsten. Feleþ sona
mines gemotes seo þe mec nearwað,
wif wundenlocc-- wæt bið þæt eage.

(I am a wonderful help to women,
The hope of something to come. I harm
No citizen except my slayer.
Rooted I stand on a high bed.
I am shaggy below. Sometimes the beautiful
Peasant's daughter, an eager-armed,
Proud woman grabs my body,
Rushes my red skin, holds me hard,
Claims my head. The curly-haired
Woman who catches me fast will feel
Our meeting. Her eye will be wet.)

[Rukh]

English, 600 years ago:

Now, lord," quod she, "Crist Jhesu, kyng of kynges,
So wisly helpe me, as I ne may.
I have been syk, and that ful many a day.
I may nat go so fer," quod she, "ne ryde,
But I be deed, so priketh it in my syde.
May I nat axe a libel, sire somonour,
And answere there by my procuratour
To swich thyng as men wole opposen me?"
"Yis", quod this somonour, "pay anon - lat se -
Twelf pens to me, and I wol thee acquite.
I shal no profit han therby but lite;
My maister hath the profit, and nat I.
Com of, and lat me ryden hastily;
Yif me twelf pens, I may no lenger tarye."
"Twelf pens!" quod she, "now, lady Seinte Marie
So wisly help me out of care and synne,
This wyde world thogh that I sholde wynne,
Ne have I nat twelf pens withinne myn hoold.
Ye knowen wel that I am povre and oold;
Kithe youre almesse on me povre wrecche."
-Excerpt from The Canterbury Tales: The Friar's Tale, by Geoffrey Chaucer

[luc54]

I don't think the problem is words changing themselves as that happens constantly. It's obviosely problem when some words lose their meaning, but people still try to use it as if it had the same value as before. Example: "She is a racist for not wanting to marry X (insert some group here)." These words are generally used to devalue and ad hominem people in arguments, although sometimes they are just pointing out facts.

Another example is when people try to narrow the words down so their prejudices can be seen as more valid as they don't want package of being labeled something like the sexism is predujice + power so women can never be sexist etc. It's just ludicrous tactic used to validate own prejudices. It's quite easy to see why this can be somewhat problematic as it's used to validate hypocrisy.

[Kontinuum]

So is diarrhea.

So is water. So what?

[braus]

"Language is fluid" is a rather paltry reassurance when the thrust of the complaint is not natural ebb and flow of common usage and dialectic adaptation, but instead Orwellian force deployed against language.

I did read that roman last week by Orwell and its lengthy explanation of doublethink and newspeak. It made me more depressed to read those parts of the book than the rather boring ending of the roman where the brainwashing took place.
Might have written a bad first post in this thread, but i merely wanted to see what kind of discussion might sprout of the nonsense that i think does exist in our "intellectual" academic world of today. Never cared for language development, spelling or new synonyms being added because of two or more languages meeting, was more about the meaning of the words, without which you wouldnt be able to translate anything.

[Ryme]

Becuase how else do you get someone to listen to your boring/baseless/irrelevant opinion without a little linguistic embellishment in today's world?

[Independent voter]

I think Revi is right.

Why call people racist? It doesn't have much punch, not like the word "fascist", calling someone a fascist can make them go nuts. People are using these terms to hurt their opponents and invalidate what they have to say.

There are racists and fascists involved in the discussion about refugees, but their numbers are small. In my opinion, most are opposed to immigration because of economic reasons or they don't like change.