Dutch website forces EU referendum for the first time in history

[Deleted]

http://www.denederlandsegrondwet.nl/...x=vgaxlcr1jzlc
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/64...-eu-referendum
http://europe.leadstories.com/000657...eu-treaty.html

Some english sources to catch up

Today they announced theyve gotten 440.000 signatures meaning well have a referendum for the first time ever.
They havent used the national media channels, simply some adverts and alot of volunteers. Still funny to see how many people are willing to sign to force a referendum. Also the smart use of technology (touch based signature so people could fill the signature in online)

Referendum will be about the Ukraine treaty that has been signed. (see link).

So what do you think of a referendum? Should it be used more? Is it ok that a populair website can force one trough sheer numbers?

Thoughts?

[Evolixe]

I signed that purely out of the principle that I believe if people wanted to vote for or against that treaty, they should be allowed to.

But I'm not actually sure I'll sign the ref with the answer that website is looking for.

[Independent voter]

Are the people putting forward the initiative in Denmark, are they throwing Ukraine to the wolves in the hope that it will pacify Russia? There's not a lot of information in the article.

[Sting]

I'm glad they got the required amount of signatures needed. I signed in the first week.

Let's face it though, even if we all vote no on the ukraine treaty, they'll probably ignore the results as it's only advisory. Atleast it's going to be pretty awkward for some politicians.

[minteK917]

Referendum is an important process in a democratic country. If nearly half a million people(country size representative) decided the question should be public, it should be. Does not matter where the petition started, as long as the 440000 signature are registered as legitimate. Theres no reason or real answer of do we need more referendum or less. Referendum is something that comes around when part of the community conflict with something. You can even start a referendum with a pen and paper yourself, you just need to legitimately get so much registered signature meeting the quota pre established. Its not like 440 000 are trolling.

So the real answer is, in a democratic country, Referendum happens when its wanted by a decent portion of a population. In the end it either make them correct or make them suck it up until next attempt. Actually the only thing i always had problem with is that politicians can too easily force referendum, i personally think citizen should be the real power balance in this always.

[Independent voter]

Referendum is an important process in a democratic country. If nearly half a million people(country size representative) decided the question should be public, it should be. Does not matter where the petition started, as long as the 440000 signature are registered as legitimate. Theres no reason or real answer of do we need more referendum or less. Referendum is something that comes around when part of the community conflict with something. You can even start a referendum with a pen and paper yourself, you just need to legitimately get so much registered signature meeting the quota pre established. Its not like 440 000 are trolling.

So the real answer is, in a democratic country, Referendum happens when its wanted by a decent portion of a population. In the end it either make them correct or make them suck it up until next attempt. Actually the only thing i always had problem with is that politicians can too easily force referendum, i personally think citizen should be the real power balance in this always.

The Initiative process is very old in the US. #1 is that people will sign anything placed in front of them. #2 there's a reason we have representative governments, who has the time or skill to read a 7 page bill full of legalese? #3 companies initiate bills so that they can pay less taxes and pollute more, they name these bills things like "the clean water and healthy baby act". #4 the initiative process has been used to harass minorities and immigrants.

An initiative process sounds good on paper but it's lacking in practice.

[McNeil]

I signed it the day it came out, good to hear it did so well even without advertising troughout mainstream media sources. I know a lot of people who wanted to sign but were afraid of their privacy being exposed, as there were no signs that they were save or anything.

[Sting]

The Initiative process is very old in the US. #1 is that people will sign anything placed in front of them. #2 there's a reason we have representative governments, who has the time or skill to read a 7 page bill full of legalese? #3 companies initiate bills so that they can pay less taxes and pollute more, they name these bills things like "the clean water and healthy baby act". #4 the initiative process has been used to harass minorities and immigrants.

An initiative process sounds good on paper but it's lacking in practice.

None of that applies here, and to top it all off, the government representatives who voted it in place hadn't actually read it themselves. I think the US has way more of these "vote for prop 9" stuff going on, but here it's quite irregular.

I'm glad it's happening, I don't want Ukraine in the EU right now, which the association treaty is a first step towards. Ukraine's in a civil war and if it were to join the EU they'd demand financial aid straight away, not to mention asking for weapons etc.

If anything, it's good that the Dutch people are getting more of a say. I'm sorely disappointed in almost every politician that's in power right now.

[Deleted]

Although I signed, I'm still having some doubts. First off, the previous referendum (2005) was absolutely useless. It showed us that top level politicians don't give a shit about public opinion and will force changes one way or another. Secondly, I'm not convinced that a large amount of people will actually do some research before casting their vote. Besides that, I'm quite doubtful about whether politicians are actually able to set up an objective campaign, instead of appealing to emotion.

[Deleted]

Although I signed, I'm still having some doubts. First off, the previous referendum (2005) was absolutely useless. It showed us that top level politicians don't give a shit about public opinion and will force changes one way or another. Secondly, I'm not convinced that a large amount of people will actually do some research before casting their vote. Besides that, I'm quite doubtful about whether politicians are actually able to set up an objective campaign, instead of appealing to emotion.

If the current governement doesnt adhere to the referendum they are 100% getting booted from office next election.

[Ripster42]

I signed it the day it came out, good to hear it did so well even without advertising troughout mainstream media sources. I know a lot of people who wanted to sign but were afraid of their privacy being exposed, as there were no signs that they were save or anything.
dumb meme]

Memes aren't allowed. Neither is language other than English. Should probably edit your post.

[Noradin]

An initiative process sounds good on paper but it's lacking in practice.

At least it is a two step process.

[looorg]

"... to hold a non-binding referendum".

Right. One should probably not hold out for any massive change in policy here.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

None of that applies here, and to top it all off, the government representatives who voted it in place hadn't actually read it themselves. I think the US has way more of these "vote for prop 9" stuff going on, but here it's quite irregular.

I'm glad it's happening, I don't want Ukraine in the EU right now, which the association treaty is a first step towards. Ukraine's in a civil war and if it were to join the EU they'd demand financial aid straight away, not to mention asking for weapons etc.

If anything, it's good that the Dutch people are getting more of a say. I'm sorely disappointed in almost every politician that's in power right now.

You don't get weapons because you're in the EU. It is a financial institution.

(you get weapons from NATO)

[Deleted]

BASED
A
S
E
D

Best of luck. Get yourselves out of this pointless trash Union before it`s too late.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

BASED
A
S
E
D

Best of luck. Get yourselves out of this pointless trash Union before it`s too late.

Good luck negotiating trade deals without 550 million potential consumers on your side then.

[Deleted]

Good luck negotiating trade deals without 550 million potential consumers on your side then.

Serbia and other non-EU countries like Turkey have better trading arragnements with EU than some EU members with another EU member.

It`s a fraud organization. It`s dying a slow death. It reeks of decay.