Do you want Rewards for World PvP?

[force18]

World PVP will never be a even playing field though, at any time it can be 10 vs 1 etc etc, the only way to make it even is by having a system that puts the same amount of people in the area, but now it is not world pvp anymore. I don't think you can reward anyone for this as world pvp will never ever be even, that is why it is world pvp.

I can see adding gear for killing say a city leader once a week to be a nice bonus for doing it and maybe this will introduce more pvp, but it all depends on where people will be idling in the next expansion lol You can give out all the rewards you want, but I don't think it will encourage more pvp, people will be just like oh look they are killing our boss, dude its ok they respawn again etc

[dope_danny]

Penalizing dishonorable kills may help somewhat, but there are details to iron out. People who don't care about the penalty for whatever reason will continue to gank. Get honorable kills on your main, gank lowbies on your max-level alt. Be honorable until you've gotten all the rewards you're after, then get back to ganking.

There are already bgs, arenas, zones like halaa, etc. Why is open-world pvp outside of these areas so important? Why should it be encouraged with new rewards? What kind of combat thrill do you get from world pvp that you don't get in an arena or bg - other than the opportunity to kill players that aren't interested in pvp at the moment? The "immersive thrill" of "ooh, someone might kill me while I'm doing dailies?" You wouldn't get any of the rewards suggested by the OP for that.

I would say it comes from feelings of the dynamic open world elements of world of wacraft being further compartmentalised into closed off instanced content. Look at warlords pve experience: Grind mobs to fill a bar to abandoned the world to do something in an instance. Thats not an mmo world, thats a lobby.

Now consider early world of wacraft. Not only was mmorpgs a different climate where it was more about heading out into the world to dick around but also a lot more unforgiving and less homogenised. Combine this with -if we are honest- a lack of things to do and people do what they do best: make their own fun. Some would RP, others would stand in town squares calling for parties to form and head up to silverpine and into Shadowfang Keep for *gasp* blue quality items! and others would head out into the wilds where there were no town guards and decide to live the highwayman life.

One of my first experiences in wow was being a babby 30 day trial vanilla era forsaken warlock and as i'm heading through Agamand Mills a lvl40 night elf rogue and forsaken priest catch me in some ghost towns basement looking for a banshees remains and the undead goes "you trade me 10 silver or he kills you" and naturally i said "eat shit" or something and payed for it. At the time my reaction was "oh thats bullshit" as someone at the inn in Brill explained they were an infamous pair of bandits that lurk out in the wilds of northern eastern kingdoms. Later however that became one of my fondest memories as i tried later wow clones where the world was static and dead.

Go and look up "The Legend of Angwe" and you will read about an Orc rogue named Angwe that literally had Menethil Harbour on lockdown for YEARS. You wanted to get to theramore? well you pay the troll toll and duel Angwe. Even leading to an Alliance guild "the cult of angwe" that lived only to serve him in the wetlands.

Then Blizzard slowly made the changes to the game in the name of accessibility and the dreaded "wider market appeal" thats been the death of so many ips over the last 15 years and pvp was suddenly an instance only exercise. They over incentivised doing it in this little bowl separate from the world and at first people cheered, the highways of azeroth were safe!

But then people realised this just meant they were empty. People only acknowledged another player to say "STFU and get lost, stop kill stealing my quest objectives" and the world without pvp became a world merely there to facilitate the race to max level. Years on and even pve is more relegated to instances, to the point the addition of world bosses in mists of pandaria was seen as a huge improvement when really it was just restoring something blizzard themselves removed years ago.

People wanting more world pvp arent looking for the competition and honour grind for better gear, its not about the reward but the gameplay itself. To see the other faction and actually go "okay, here we go" and expect somthing other than two mounted characters passing each other between quest hubs as they lament the time they have spent in the que for instanced dungeons or bgs.


People who want pvp in the world are just another subset of people that want the 'world' of warcraft back.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no such thing as world PvP. It's called ganking. And rewarding players for Ganking is a bad thing.

Heres the question though: Why?

Is it a self centered concept that the world exists to facilitate only yourself and the ganker is invading your personal time? or simply negative reinforcement that "dying makes me feel bad?"

-and bear in mind im not really into pvp at all here so im not taking the piss, i just dont understand why people actively lash out against concepts that make the open world more than a grind to max level for instanced content.

Because the worst you can say about world pvp is if someone is ganking you with a huge level difference and camping you. Which of course is completely understandable to be upset about. It was why some people back in the day leveled Paladins purely for the "bubble hearth" escape route option. But heres two things about that:

1: Isn't that a symptom of how solitary and single player the world experience currently is? that there is nobody to help you because theres no reason to do anything in the world but throw on a podcast and mentally switch off as you go from quest to quest waiting for dungeons to pop till you reach max level with no need or reason to go into the world with friends who would help you at all?
and
2: If you are considering acts of random world pvp an act of "another player maliciously choosing to waste my time" in the grand scheme of things whats the difference between that and the ques waiting for the instanced content?


I completely understand why people would dislike world pvp, but i also think that this is because of greater problems in the world itself that need remedying.

[Thelxi]

I liked the timeless isle coin grind. I know right *gasp*

[hiramloram]

@dope_danny: I understand and respect your points and you have great stories to tell.

From the other side - people who aren't interested in wpvp want to pvp at a time of their choosing and not on someone else's timetable. And because there still isn't a way to remove the gank from the equation, to many people world pvp becomes an undesirable chore to be avoided. For every fun time in Agamand Mills where the bandit holds you up for 10 silver, there are multiple generic repetitive ganks and corpse runs back to your camped dead toon until you get on an alt or just log and do something else.

People wanting more world pvp arent looking for the competition and honour grind for better gear, its not about the reward but the gameplay itself.

Well...the OP seems to be looking for additional reward.

[Baracuda]

Yes but there needs to be relatively powerful guards to protect people from gankers. Like... the further inside they push inside a town (like the ones in Tanaan) the stronger/more the guards become. We really need a reward system similar to the censer of eternal agony, but with much more longevity. Ashran especially needs this since that's where most of it takes place atm... Idk add leader/scoreboards so the best players get some recognition... maybe some ancient ogre coin for every 10th kill etc...

[dope_danny]

Well...the OP seems to be looking for additional reward.

I think there is room for reward but theres got to be some kind of balance for it. Like a 'dishonour' system so to speak. Theres quite a few asian only MMORPG's where player killers or 'PK'ers' actually have their nametag/healthbar change colour. Imagine if there was some system where the heavy ganker that attacked and camped players could be "indicted" by the victim like in Dark Souls. This builds up "dishonour" points that would represent the players infamy. Guards spit on them like the deathknight starting experience, their icon and health bar changes so they can hide that they are a ganker and so on. Shit maybe enough indictments against them gives them such a bad rep they get a debuff where repairs and flightpaths cost 25% more gold or something?

That way you see someone in some world pvp faction rep based transmog gear without that wierd health bar and you know they stick to honourable, such as it is, same level world pvp and so on.

I think its all about balancing incentives with the idea that you start to make open world content on a server more relevant then people will stand out and earn a reputation with players. Someone doesnt play nice and eventually they only have the other 'marked' gankers to play with at all.

[hiramloram]

1. Is it a self centered concept that the world exists to facilitate only yourself and the ganker is invading your personal time? or simply negative reinforcement that "dying makes me feel bad?"

2: If you are considering acts of random world pvp an act of "another player maliciously choosing to waste my time" in the grand scheme of things whats the difference between that and the ques waiting for the instanced content?

1. I think it's a matter of "Gank me once, gg. Gank me often enough, and 'Fuck this, I spend more time corpse-running than I spend on the things I want to do. I'm not playing the game, the game is playing me' ". And different people will have their own tipping points.

2. If you're involved in wpvp against your will, it's because you're in the world working on something else at the time. If you're queued for a bg, not necessarily.

- - - Updated - - -

I think there is room for reward but theres got to be some kind of balance for it. Like a 'dishonour' system so to speak. Theres quite a few asian only MMORPG's where player killers or 'PK'ers' actually have their nametag/healthbar change colour. Imagine if there was some system where the heavy ganker that attacked and camped players could be "indicted" by the victim like in Dark Souls. This builds up "dishonour" points that would represent the players infamy. Guards spit on them like the deathknight starting experience, their icon and health bar changes so they can hide that they are a ganker and so on. Shit maybe enough indictments against them gives them such a bad rep they get a debuff where repairs and flightpaths cost 25% more gold or something?

That way you see someone in some world pvp faction rep based transmog gear without that wierd health bar and you know they stick to honourable, such as it is, same level world pvp and so on.

I think its all about balancing incentives with the idea that you start to make open world content on a server more relevant then people will stand out and earn a reputation with players. Someone doesnt play nice and eventually they only have the other 'marked' gankers to play with at all.

I think many people would wear their dishonor as honor and the mentioned disincentives would be sought after.

[Deleted]

So the idea of walking through somewhere like duskwood worried that a rogue or feral druid could be lurking behind any bush to kill you ISN'T immersive, but a zerg rush to kill an npc that almost instantly respawns just for a mount IS?

Ganking isn't fair, thats kind of the point of an ambush, it is however immersive because it causes you to take stock of a world that for many years now has been a B line to a quest marker on your map and just so much white noise inbetween.

Yes, it's technically immersive. But it's also technically immersive to be beaten by gang in the middle of the street. I noticed the word isn't well placed but I left it there because it's usually used positively, not for something horrible.

[trevoroxx]

Y'all ignored my post about rewards

But to the people who don't like world PvP... THATS WHAT PVE SERVERS ARE FOR!!!!!

#1 response from someone crying about being ganked/camped/world pvp'd is that we are a PvP server and if they don't like it either transfer or reroll.

[shoc]

Y'all ignored my post about rewards

But to the people who don't like world PvP... THATS WHAT PVE SERVERS ARE FOR!!!!!

#1 response from someone crying about being ganked/camped/world pvp'd is that we are a PvP server and if they don't like it either transfer or reroll.

You raise a good point, however, so far there is no content that is exclusive to one type of server over another.

If Blizzard adds World PvP rewards to only PvP servers, what kind of precedent would that set? Would RP realms receive RP exclusive features, and what would be the incentive of playing on a PvE server other than to avoid PvP?

[trevoroxx]

You raise a good point, however, so far there is no content that is exclusive to one type of server over another.

If Blizzard adds World PvP rewards to only PvP servers, what kind of precedent would that set? Would RP realms receive RP exclusive features, and what would be the incentive of playing on a PvE server other than to avoid PvP?

Similar answer we got as to why PvPers who want to fly have to do that stupid achievement, why do players who don't like to PvP need PvP rewards? As in PvP gear (which is going away) or PvP points (conq, honor, whatever the new PvP talent point system looks like). If they want them they could get them from the existing sources.

However, if you don't like that because it is a little bullshit (kinda like me doing dailies to fly), my suggestion on page 1 accommodates pve servers.

If world PvP was in the form of a daily quest, then those on the quest would be flagged for pvp in the quest zone. So simple.

[ComputerNerd]

There is no such thing as world PvP. It's called ganking. And rewarding players for Ganking is a bad thing.

Unfortunately very true.
World PvP has been left very open, very uncontrolled.
You cant fairly reward that.

It used to be popular for no reason other than being fun.
Now the community is too focused on the rewards, and then complain about lack of stuff to do, when the reality is content that isn't deemed sufficiently rewarding is just ignored and dismissed as non-content.

So the idea of walking through somewhere like duskwood worried that a rogue or feral druid could be lurking behind any bush to kill you ISN'T immersive, but a zerg rush to kill an npc that almost instantly respawns just for a mount IS?

Ganking isn't fair, thats kind of the point of an ambush, it is however immersive because it causes you to take stock of a world that for many years now has been a B line to a quest marker on your map and just so much white noise inbetween.

The only world pvp you get form the faction leaders is when the horde goes through the deep run tram choke point and thats about it, otherwise its as player vs player as attacking a dummy.

It isn't just "immersive" or not though.
That is a personal experience, one that varies considerably from one to another.
Flying is a good example, where some people prefer the grounded experience, others do not.
Neither is just more immersive in general terms, but provide different players with experiences that improve their own enjoyment.

On another issue, people quickly forget what PvP actually stands for.
Player VERSUS Player.
Ganking is often a means to avoid the versus aspect, and so it is rather hypocritical to call that PvP.
If you want to promote PvP, then be against ganking instead of supporting it.
I personally see ganking as cowardly, getting a cheap thrill from what you know is going to be an easy kill instead of from winning fairly.

[Thoughtsinchaos]

World pvp in vanilla wasn't just about ganking, as some here are suggesting. I remember amazing pvp moments from the southshore/TM days, and being taunted by flagged horde waiting around for group members to show up at the entrance to dungeons. Those were great battles, and honestly, great world pvp still happens to me nowadays, you just have to know where to find it :P

[Tharkkun]

Aside from the epic battles on Bleeding Hollow in front of Molten Core and Blackwing Lair world pvp has been a complete dud. The whole concept is nothing but gank PVP now. I enjoy a somewhat fair, controlled environment in either bg's or arenas instead. Not the oh I'm at 40% health and now the enemy lands on my head to attack. That's not a challenge for the attacker or the defender.

[Zantos]

They are doing it in Legion with how those points work. Any pvp you do gives you points to use for spells and other pvp things.

[High Marshal Sigismund]

I pitched this idea before and people liked it:

Pick a zone in the Eastern Kingdoms or Kalimdor. Have a weekend where if you kill a member of the opposing faction in that zone, you get 100 honor per kill. Also, scatter a few dozen chests around said zone and have them contain mounts, pets, pvp gear, etc. You have a small chance upon opening them to earn any of those, or more than 1 thing. You can also loot the corpse of players you kill. Each time you kill a player, you get a "clue" to the location of a random chest. Putting together multiple clues shows you on the map where that chest is.

I'm pretty sure if they did this, there would be World PvP in that zone for the 3-day weekend.

[Itisamuh]

As much as I love wPvP, there should never be a reward for doing it beyond fun. On that same note though, I wish there were no rewards or gear differences in any form of PvP. If people only do something when it rewards them, and stop as soon as they get no rewards, it needs to be redesigned to be more fun.

[Flabberly]

Duuude, you're so extreme! Where's the "I don't give an eff either way" option?

[Gheld]

Lootable city guards
That's all it needs.

[Boricha]

I used to be hugely into WPvP in TBC, Wrath, and even some of Cata. I have about 650-700K HKs across every character on my account, probably 30-35% of which came from WPvP.

I'd definitely try to get back into it if they added worthwhile rewards, but my free time is just not what it used to be.