So do you think Holy will get/be better with Legion?

[VelvetRealm]

Ive played Holy as long as ive had a priest. This expansion has killed it for my long standing guild. Im in that oh-so-fun area of trying to find a Mythic HFC guild that even wants a Holy priest :/ I find myself healing just fine with other healer classes that don't have their full tier pieces or aren't quite as geared as me, but put me in a Mythic fight with a geared MW monk or Druid and despite all I can, my logs look god awful.

For me, this is the first raiding tier where I feel I am light years behind with my healing. Couple that with this overall xpac and the game feels extremely glum for me right now. I am hoping Legion brings a much needed breath of fresh air to Holy. Has anything remotely been hinted at it? with all going on, Ive just lacked the energy to try to keep up on the Legion fanfaire; ims ure that wil change with Blizzcon..

[Kilee25]

I get the impression that disc as we know it is going away completely, and that the mass damage absorbsion mechanics that we have seen since ICC is almost completely going away. They have hinted that Disc is going to play similarly to old-style shadow with VE. you will assign a target to direct most of your healing towards, and then do damage in order to heal that person or the area around them. I mean that's just what they've hinted at, and it sound so to me like Disc may become one of the first true hybrid-support specs in the game.

If that's true, then Holy would HAVE to become the premiere healing spec for priests. There would be no choice if you want blanket, direct raid healing. Therefore, the spec is going to have to be viable and competitive, or i fear that Priests will have no spec or niche that is desirable to raids at all.

I don't know what will happen, but I suspect all aspects of priests are getting a massive overhaul.

[Djriff]

I really hope so. Holy is one of the most fun specs to play as a priest (for me at least). To see it in its current state is disheartening to say the least.

Don't feel bad about being light years behind, I feel the same way when I'm playing Holy in a mythic environment.

[Kaesebrezen]

I personally wish they'd make more out of Chakra - right now it seems pretty useless overall.

Just take FFXIV's Astrologian - depending on stance several spells get either a HoT or an Absorb added (but you can't change stance in combat).
Chakra could do something similar - change mastery depending on Chakra (but allow incombat change with hefty cooldown): One add HoTs to spells, gives access to renew/WildGrowth type heal - One has a similar effect to Shaman Mastery, adds big single-target emergency heal - one might add absorbs (in scale of holy pala mastery), adds Clarity of Will (==tankheal)

But then again - if disci turns out to be actually good at damage//healing stuff - who would even play holy.

[Djriff]

It's like they reduced the cd of chakras then stripped everything away that make chakra swapping even worth it.

I would wager a guess at people that don't like damaging to heal.

[Adinora]

I would personally love to see the Chakras completely gone!

[Ablution]

I would personally love to see the Chakras completely gone!

no plz no, i love the way that we can jump between raid healing and single target healing, the only thing i dont like is the 10 sec CD-_- and ofc there is not much power behind anyone of them

[shanthi]

I get the impression that disc as we know it is going away completely, and that the mass damage absorbsion mechanics that we have seen since ICC is almost completely going away. They have hinted that Disc is going to play similarly to old-style shadow with VE. you will assign a target to direct most of your healing towards, and then do damage in order to heal that person or the area around them. I mean that's just what they've hinted at, and it sound so to me like Disc may become one of the first true hybrid-support specs in the game.

It really depends on how you interpret "half healing/half DPS" (regarding your "first true hybrid-support spec" comment). I read it as a breakdown of what a disc priest will be casting: half attack spells, half healing spells...not what they'll be contributing (my guess is that they'll still be a full healer with negligible damage).

If I had to guess what that means in game mechanics, it would be that Power Word: Shield will be de-emphasized, and Atonement will be roughly half of a disc priest's activity, still dealing low damage, but healing for, say, 500% or 1000% of the damage dealt...likely with some beacon or Grace-like mechanic that helps direct the Atonement healing. I could see that working as any direct-healing spell you cast (level 90 talents not counting) puts the buff on the targets and the buff lasts til the next direct healing spell you cast. So if you want your Atonement to hit a group of players, you'd PoH that group and then start casting Atonement spells. If you want to focus it, you'd perhaps Penance a target and then cast your Atonement spells.

Either way, I agree that mass absorbs are probably on their way out and holy will be easier to balance against disc.

[Deleted]

In the same boat as you. Been holy since vanilla (with a few months of disc in mop) and just specced disc earlier today. I have no clue how to heal as disc and I already miss the reactive healing from holy and also it's playstyle I really hope they make the specc more viable next expansion.

[Floopa]

the couple of artifact talents i saw looked pretty interesting tbh

prolly will get removed but oh well

[Yunzi]

In the same boat as you. Been holy since vanilla (with a few months of disc in mop) and just specced disc earlier today. I have no clue how to heal as disc and I already miss the reactive healing from holy and also it's playstyle I really hope they make the specc more viable next expansion.

The "generic" disc healing style is to cast PWS as default, cast Power Word: Solace on cooldown, and cast two offensive penances every 30 seconds. You'll have a 3rd penance which you can use defensively or if that's not needed just don't cast it. Between the Solaces and OPs you'll reach 5 stacks of Evangelism within 30 seconds so you can have full uptime on 5-stack Archangel. After casting Archangel you have 15 or so seconds to cast Prayer of Healing (empowered), to receive it's 100% crit.

Other spells are more optional/situational, like Prayer of Mending and Halo. Try to avoid using Heal or Flash Heal except in special circumstances. Hardcasting Prayer of Mending is a controversial subject within the Disc community - I favor it in many circumstances.

If you take Mindbender then cast two Holy Fires and three OPs per 30 seconds. Since Holy Fires don't regen mana (like Solace does) nearly all of it's value is in it's Evangelism add, which is why it's 2/3 as opposed to the 3/2 casting of Solace/OP.

At the start of a fight use OP, Solace (or HF), and three Smites to immediately get to (and pop) 5-stack Archangel, or OP/Solace/Smite/PWS/PWS/PWS/PWS/OP/Solace/Archangel. Unless you mess up you shouldn't have to cast Smite again the rest of the fight.

Clarity of Will (level 100 talent) is a somewhat controversial spell, with some disc priests favoring it more than others. Try it out to see how it works for you. The general rule is to use it when you need to heal the same target repeatedly (when they need more healing from you than a PWS and PoM in a 10-second window). This typically happens in damage debuff circumstances, like Gift of Man'ari or Heartseeker, and also when tanks take heavy damage (phase 3 Tyrant). Clarity of Will's long cast-time means that by casting it you miss out on 1.5 or so casts of PWS, so you sacrifice raid healing for single-target healing.

Feel free to cut off your Offensive Penance cast after two ticks (when the GCD is reached) in order to cast another spell - that other spell should be more valuable than letting the Penance finish, unless your raid team needs the extra damage.

[Pearl1717]

The "generic" disc healing style is to cast PWS as default, cast Power Word: Solace on cooldown, and cast two offensive penances every 30 seconds. You'll have a 3rd penance which you can use defensively or if that's not needed just don't cast it.

Ehh its not always worth it to offensively penance. Defensive penance is such a strong heal, that I hate letting it go to waste as offensive. Especially using it offensively the majority of the time. Its a little bit better to do with t18 4pc so you can still get some heal out of it, but I generally go the route of 2 defensive and 1 offensive (or no offensive at all).

After casting Archangel you have 15 or so seconds to cast Prayer of Healing (empowered), to receive it's 100% crit.

Nope, you have a full 30 seconds to receive its 100% crit bonus.

Other spells are more optional/situational, like Prayer of Mending and Halo.

I wouldn't call halo optional on most encounters. It regularly does significantly more healing than a pws would and is well worth the cast. It is situational, but I still regularly cast it about once a minute on most encounters, and more or less on cd for others.

At the start of a fight use OP, Solace (or HF), and three Smites to immediately get to (and pop) 5-stack Archangel, or OP/Solace/Smite/PWS/PWS/PWS/PWS/OP/Solace/Archangel. Unless you mess up you shouldn't have to cast Smite again the rest of the fight.

And it is okay to be using smite to build Evangelism stacks. I try to limit it to 2 at most per 30 seconds however.

- - - Updated - - -

It really depends on how you interpret "half healing/half DPS" (regarding your "first true hybrid-support spec" comment). I read it as a breakdown of what a disc priest will be casting: half attack spells, half healing spells...not what they'll be contributing (my guess is that they'll still be a full healer with negligible damage).

I highly, highly doubt Blizzard will make Disc a true hybrid spec, meaning that they will be doing 50% of the healing that a normal healer would do, and 50% of the damage a true dps would do. It would result in them either being stupidly overpowered for progression, or stupidly underpowered to the point no one would ever take them. I just don't see it happening.

It is much more likely that they will change them back to a more MoP style of disc, where they're they're still doing 100% of the healing a normal healer would be doing, but casting 50% healing spells and 50% damaging spells.

[shanthi]

I highly, highly doubt Blizzard will make Disc a true hybrid spec, meaning that they will be doing 50% of the healing that a normal healer would do, and 50% of the damage a true dps would do. It would result in them either being stupidly overpowered for progression, or stupidly underpowered to the point no one would ever take them. I just don't see it happening.

It is much more likely that they will change them back to a more MoP style of disc, where they're they're still doing 100% of the healing a normal healer would be doing, but casting 50% healing spells and 50% damaging spells.

I couldn't tell if you were specifically agreeing with me, but that's exactly what I said. I was disagreeing with the "first true hybrid" notion.

[worcester]

Disc being stupidly overpowered for progression? No way!

[shanthi]

Yeah, it was just a skeleton of an idea...if they wanted to pursue that route, there would probably need to be a larger assortment of heals to give more variety for "aiming" Atonement.

I wouldn't want to see absorbs disappear entirely, because "proactive healing" is an enjoyable style that differentiates discipline from the other healing specs, but consistently usable Spirit Shell or spammable PW:S probably can never be balanced.

[PosPosPos]

Feel free to cut off your Offensive Penance cast after two ticks (when the GCD is reached) in order to cast another spell - that other spell should be more valuable than letting the Penance finish, unless your raid team needs the extra damage.

....Of course I should expect bad advice from you.

The third tick requires only <0.5 seconds, depending on your haste, to resolve, and can still proc 4pc. Penance, especially offensive, should NEVER be canceled after the 2nd tick.

The third tick of offensive Penance is well worth the 1/3 of the execution time of PW:S.

[Danner]

no plz no, i love the way that we can jump between raid healing and single target healing, the only thing i dont like is the 10 sec CD-_- and ofc there is not much power behind anyone of them

Here's the thing.

Without chakra you can cast any spell at any time without worrying about being in the wrong stance. That means you can jump between raid and single target healing, just like any other healer, at will.

Chakra is a limiter preventing you from doing just that.
Or at least it was. Nowadays it's pointless.

[worcester]

That means you can jump between raid and single target healing, just like any other healer, at will.

Chakra is a limiter preventing you from doing just that.

That's why you guys got the class trinket that boosts your single target heal in sanctuary. kappa

[Yunzi]

Ehh its not always worth it to offensively penance. Defensive penance is such a strong heal, that I hate letting it go to waste as offensive. Especially using it offensively the majority of the time. Its a little bit better to do with t18 4pc so you can still get some heal out of it, but I generally go the route of 2 defensive and 1 offensive (or no offensive at all).

We may be running into the classic situation of different contexts. I heal a ton of heroic HFC and some normal HFC, with healers very eager to heal up whatever damage leaks through my shields. There aren't very many opportunities for reasonable defensive penance usage. If you're pushing Mythic HFC content with the minimum amount of healers then there are many more opportunities for defensive penance, which alters the optimal usage.

Nope, you have a full 30 seconds to receive its 100% crit bonus.

That's a bit nitpicky since you want to cast it within 15 seconds to get the 25% healing buff from Empowered Archangel.

I wouldn't call halo optional on most encounters. It regularly does significantly more healing than a pws would and is well worth the cast. It is situational, but I still regularly cast it about once a minute on most encounters, and more or less on cd for others.

I cast it (effectively) a lot more with low healer comps or otherwise in a difficult fight. In farm content the spell is rarely important.

And it is okay to be using smite to build Evangelism stacks. I try to limit it to 2 at most per 30 seconds however.

It's better than ok in a context where defensive penance is good and you don't need to use every available GCD for PWS. Even on farm I cast Smite on Tyrant since my penances are going toward healing debuffed players.

[Deleted]

TBH I actually really enjoy how holy priest plays right now, a few spells could use numbers tweaks and a little new flavour for an xpac never hurts. Regarding getting better / worse; I think it entirely depends on OTHER healers. I'm fairly confident that if disc took a huge nerf in the current healing climate you'd see a higher representation of holy priests compared to mistweavers and probably on par with trees / shamans.

I suppose it really depends what you consider good as a healer. IMO Holy has a diverse toolkit right now with a decent spread of 'padding' and life saving abilities, gearing matters but no stat is useless or overpowered. If topping meters is the thing that makes them good then it's impossible to guess the future, without making any mechanical changes to the spec holy could simply become the rank1 healer by buffing something like renew by 1000%, obviously an exaggeration but the point is becoming top or bottom healer can be changed in a hotfix and doesn't require an expansion overhaul.


At this point I'm mostly just hoping they DON'T overhaul holy for the xpac, I'm hoping that some number tweaks, the overhaul of disc and a sprinkling of extra flavour will be all that's needed to make holy competitive for the PvE throughput topspot.