So do you think Holy will get/be better with Legion?

[Isheria]

Yes i'm sure blizzard will create a garbage weapon then force you to use it because there's no alternative. No matter how salty you are about the spec, this simply won't happen. The trinket is bad but it has other options, the artifact weapon doesn't it's that simple.

[KaPe]

Even if they screw up the artifact, it won't be immediately obvious. Some of the levelling options will probably look appealing at first, until you actually get them and find out it's Holy Word: Sanctuary all over again. Or range buff to Confession.

[Danner]

I don't think we've seen much of the weapon design, and probably that's because it wasn't ready to be presented.

But I assume each weapon will have a "sphere grid" (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Sphere_Grid) type unlock progress.
Everything you do earn you weapon XP. Given enough weapon XP, you will unlock a "sphere" in the grid.
- some "spheres" are empty sockets where you can insert stat gems or similar. These stat gems drop from bosses, instead of weapons.
- some "spheres" contain talents. These probably work akin to the Lvl 90-lvl100 passives we got in WoD.

You decide the order of unlock yourself. Eventually you will unlock all the "spheres" on the weapon, but you can still replace the stat gems with better ones.
At least that's my synthesis of the images presented. Things likely to change etc.

As for the artifact, I hope for a staff. I fully expect a lump of coal.

[Kilee25]

I really liked the Sphere grid in FFX, so I hope it works like that!

[Griimes]

I get the impression that disc as we know it is going away completely, and that the mass damage absorbsion mechanics that we have seen since ICC is almost completely going away. They have hinted that Disc is going to play similarly to old-style shadow with VE. you will assign a target to direct most of your healing towards, and then do damage in order to heal that person or the area around them. I mean that's just what they've hinted at, and it sound so to me like Disc may become one of the first true hybrid-support specs in the game.

If that's true, then Holy would HAVE to become the premiere healing spec for priests. There would be no choice if you want blanket, direct raid healing. Therefore, the spec is going to have to be viable and competitive, or i fear that Priests will have no spec or niche that is desirable to raids at all.

I don't know what will happen, but I suspect all aspects of priests are getting a massive overhaul.

This actually sounds REALLY cool. It'll put more class identity disparity between holy and disc, and creates a new, unique playstyle!

I'm moist with excitement

[Dyra]

I really liked the Sphere grid in FFX, so I hope it works like that!

I loved that system too.

But I more expect it to work more like Paragon levels do in Diablo. They would have to introduce a daily cap like they do with Valor though. And a level cap for each patch, like how the Legendary gradually becomes more powerful in stages. Don't want people grinding themselves into the dirt.

- Account bound levels. So it'll be be much easier to swap between alts and specs. You still have to 'unlock' the artefact for each spec and alt, but you won't have to re-level it to get back to your main's MS artefact power level. Plus, if you do ever abandon your main, no progress made to that date will be lost.

- More XP required per level. E.g. Level 2 = 1K, 3 = 10K, 4 = 100K. Well maybe not as dramatic an exponential increase as that, but you get the idea. Ooh maybe Fibionacci! Level 2 = 1K, 3 = 1K, 4 = 2K, 5 = 3K, 6 = 5K. ^_^ I'll leave it to the professionals......

- Everything you can do contributes XP. You choose how you want to empower yourself! Yay! ^_^ Though maybe the modes of PvE dungeons/raiding should scale XP rewards. So the higher mode you're on, the faster your Artefact will level up. It also means that eventually even LFR/Casual players will be able catch up to the Mythic players (again, akin to the currant Legendary system) which is as it should be. I have no idea about PvP to know if similar scaling could apply there beyond more XP for a win. For everyone else, there's the daily grind, or even just going out into the world to farm mats. If hitting that mining node gives you levelling XP, I see no reason why hitting that mining node shouldn't also give you a little bit of Paragon XP too! If Archaeology and Fishing does as well, well maybe doing the professions won't seem so bad.

- Cyclical points to put in things. So for us, our 1st point would go into Intellect, 2nd into Stamina, 3rd into either one of the secondary stats (or even spellpower. Hmm) and the 4th into empowering your 'enchantment'. Then it repeats. So the 5th point into Intellect, the 6th into Stamina and so on. I doubt they'll include having to put points into utility/tertiary stats (Leech, Speed and Avoidance).

- 'Enchantment' unlocks will come from bosses, achieves, rep, PvP where necessary, with 1-2 baseline. I just hope they lock the appropriate enchant behind the appropriate gameplay. I don't want to be PvPing for a PvE enchantment.

By enchantment, I see them working more like the Runeforgings DKs have. Where a certain ability is empowered, costs less to cast, CD reduction and the like. The Paragon system would gradually make these more powerful. Sadly it'll turn out that only one will be the best as ever, but there you go. Hopefully it will be on a fight to fight basis rather than an enchant and forget sort of scenario.

And back onto topic. I really hope Holy will soon stand strong among the healers again. I love being Shadow, but I hate being told (when we need another healer) that they'd sooner not have my Holy spec, instead making the furiously resisting Shaman go Resto instead. :<

[dextersmith]

I get the impression that disc as we know it is going away completely, and that the mass damage absorbsion mechanics that we have seen since ICC is almost completely going away. They have hinted that Disc is going to play similarly to old-style shadow with VE. you will assign a target to direct most of your healing towards, and then do damage in order to heal that person or the area around them. I mean that's just what they've hinted at, and it sound so to me like Disc may become one of the first true hybrid-support specs in the game.

If that's true, then Holy would HAVE to become the premiere healing spec for priests. There would be no choice if you want blanket, direct raid healing. Therefore, the spec is going to have to be viable and competitive, or i fear that Priests will have no spec or niche that is desirable to raids at all.

I don't know what will happen, but I suspect all aspects of priests are getting a massive overhaul.

I don't understand the motive for that style, most were kicked for smite healing, even in lfr.

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If you use fistweaving as an example like they have, it will be lower dmg and healing then you want from anybody. Maybe they are going to add some sort of stance dancing like monks can do fistweave to regen resources and kinda passively heal while doing a little dmg and not being counted as range, then a different stance to dump bigger heals and fit into the normal healer roles.

That didn't work well for hunter mana way back when.

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I'd actually see HoTs toned down for holy, it should be the 'druid' thing, to me holy is about healing in 'chunks'. Not too good for trickling damage but can land those big heals that make you notice the health bars moving.

You mean like bc/lk pally but with aoe?

[Merope]

I'd like to see a talent that allows a chakra-weaving playstyle.

[nobodysbaby]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#metric=hps

This is so not OK. How can they not act? With both paladins & discs in top, who also have "invisible" dmg reductions. BLAH

[Rici]

It was okay for them for years now... doubt they will change their mind anytime soon.

[VelvetRealm]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8#metric=hps

This is so not OK. How can they not act? With both paladins & discs in top, who also have "invisible" dmg reductions. BLAH

I like how there are a wopping 5,688 Holy parses compared to the 25,848 disc ones ;p

[nobodysbaby]

It was okay for them for years now... doubt they will change their mind anytime soon.

Even more weird, cause the first years I was all over forums , twitter etc fighting to open their eyes along with many other holy priests and other classes even, but nothing. We did get a lot of answers from GC, so they do know (ofc) about this. Always excuses for NOT doing anything.

Is it lack of care? Lack of interest to balance the game...? Could it be they don't want to ruin guilds setups/progression by tweaking numbers now (such a silly excuse)? I have no idea, but it did make me quit raiding "semi hardcore #40 or so" since I mostly had to go Disc for progress... Perhaps it's just a looong series of design failing at the start of expansions, cause it did seem they wanted to change things but couldn't do it right. It sure would be easy enough to change a few numbers now tho as a band aid!?

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I like how there are a wopping 5,688 Holy parses compared to the 25,848 disc ones ;p

Mhm, it has been a lot worse than that though. Holy actually dipped to 2% of healers spots and Disc & Pallies had 26-29% at some points in WotLK/MoP.

At the start of expansions a lot more Priests play Holy (believe I saw around 14% of role at the beginning of WoD), so no question more of us wants to play the specc.

[Kilee25]

I've had this theory for a while now. I was talking with a friend about it just the other day. I think that Blizzard has some design document rules put in place that basically say something like, "Don't try to make all players happy." If they make a perfect game, it ultimately would be a boring game. It's also commonly said that it's better if your fan base is angry than bored. I think that this is probably one of the core motivating factors behind Blizzard's game design.

Extra Credits made a video on this quite a while ago:

[Rici]

If they make a perfect game, it ultimately would be a boring game. It's also commonly said that it's better if your fan base is angry than bored. I think that this is probably one of the core motivating factors behind Blizzard's game design.

Sounds like the perfect world dilemma from Matrix.

[Clamidiaa]

This reason you are talking about it exactly the reason I stopped playing this game all together. I've played a Holy Priest since Lich King, and went disc some of that as well. I was in a top raiding guild for the end of Cata, all of Panda land, and until ToT. After that I took a hiatus because at that point Disc was changed to be a Crit Priest and this began the Holy Priest back seat. I had the hiatus till a few months prior to WoD and came into WoD with another semi top guild. I was really happy with how Holy Priests were doing and I was enjoying it. Then the gear started coming in. As the Disc priest got more gear, the need for a Holy Priest went down. So far down that I was the lowest of the totem pole and even just replaced all together. Once they cleared Blackhand Mythic, I was kicked that same night, wasn't even given the opportunity to get the mythic kill myself when I killed everything prior. Once they knew they didn't need their bench healer I was gone. Was really shitting and made me feel like I wasn't needed in the slightest. Since that night I haven't logged in. This was back February or something.
If they made Holy Priests something that is needed in a raid or something that can actually do something besides fill a raid spot, I would be happy and probably want to start playing the game again. Until then, I won't. If they change it for the better in Legion, I may try it.

[Rici]

Well, the problem you're describing here sounds more like that guild being a bunch of ****** than a problem of a specific spec. Oo

[MyHunterUsesKalashnikovs]

I've had this theory for a while now. I was talking with a friend about it just the other day. I think that Blizzard has some design document rules put in place that basically say something like, "Don't try to make all players happy." If they make a perfect game, it ultimately would be a boring game. It's also commonly said that it's better if your fan base is angry than bored. I think that this is probably one of the core motivating factors behind Blizza had rd's game design.

Extra Credits made a video on this quite a while ago:

I think your taking that out of context.

If every healers kit was 10K Heal, 15K HoT, 5K Shield, 15% DR CD then they would be perfectly balanced against each other. That would be boring, and that is what is being said. They are not advocating that there should be issues in games like Holy being significantly under performing in raids, or any other spec for that matter.

[Kilee25]

I will agree to disagree then. I actually really do think that Blizzard intentionally imbalances the classes a little bit, tuning them up or down based on internal data. Sometimes, an incentive to play one class over another. Sometimes just to give players something to talk about.

[Djriff]

I will agree to disagree then. I actually really do think that Blizzard intentionally imbalances the classes a little bit, tuning them up or down based on internal data. Sometimes, an incentive to play one class over another. Sometimes just to give players something to talk about.

I'm inclined to agree with you at least partially when thinking about the holy priest class trinket. Whoever designed that trinket should be barred from ever designing another trinket ever again.

As to your other points, i'll agree to disagree with you. There would be plenty of discussion if holy was brought up to par and balanced.

[shanthi]

I will agree to disagree then. I actually really do think that Blizzard intentionally imbalances the classes a little bit, tuning them up or down based on internal data. Sometimes, an incentive to play one class over another. Sometimes just to give players something to talk about.

The type of imbalance that video was talking about makes sense in a PvP environment (LoL, Hearthstone, etc) because it creates an evolving meta, where people flock to one thing which creates demand for "counters," reducing the effectiveness of the original flavor of the month, etc. It doesn't make sense in WoW's PvE scene, since there's really no direct-competition meta, where you'd want to counter one class with another.

If you think Blizzard balances primarily for the PvP scene, it could make sense, but I don't think they do. I think their focus is primarily on PvE, with PvP a secondary concern. I think that Blizzard's design intent is "perfect balance," but A. that's extraordinarily hard (especially if you also want classes/specs to have their own flavor/feel, which Blizzard does seem to want) and B. they have their own metrics for measuring balance that are different from players', which creates some disconnect in opinions on balance.