Mannoroth Mythic advice

[Deleted]

So, we're exceptionally slow this tier and are going to be starting on manny this sunday, looked at some videos and what not but I'm sure there are some tank specific tips and/or tricks that the more experienced people lurking here might be willing to share with a lowly bottomfeeder like myself.

We have two actual 'tanks' and an alt DK that we might be able to use as a third tank (if the third tank has a job that doesn't require a huge amount of gear). So far the only advantage to three tanking it I can 'figure out' is to just handle the doomlord and be braindead other then that.

Are there any people that favor/dislike a 2 or 3 tank setup for this boss and if so for which reason.

Other then that any specific advice would be more then welcome at this point.

[Ferozan]

Nowadays i don't see any reason NOT to use a 3rd tank. Because of Rings and Gear, you probably will have to stop dps on P2 (from 65% to 35%) (P3 to people that still use P1 as the summoners, which do not exist on mythic, i call it P0) to make a nice transition.

The 3rd tank will handle every Doom Lord and , when he has downtime, you can use him to practically solo soak the Healer's Wrath of Gul'dan. Since Wrath always target 2 melee, 2 ranged and 1 healer, you can setup the 3rd tank to handle that one on both Wrath phases.

Also, a 3rd tank, specifically a DK, really excels at soaking Wrath, soaking the burst damage of the Doom Lord Debuff (when it expires, simply AMS or AMS + Something else like blood tap), can go with 2 DPS trinkets for a little bit more DPS on boss/imps/doom lord and, the best advantage, cannot be targeted with Shadowforces on P2 nor Wrath of Gul'dan on Both P2/P3. This saves you from RNG situations like having to cast aoe grip while being shadow forced if you are a DPS DK.

Other than that, my personal advice for that fight is about Boss and Raid positioning through phases. Expend the first 20~30 tries trying to perfect positioning and, even if you think it is not good on the 100 try, do not switch it.

This is a RNG fight, you will wipe a lot to things like:

People flying off the platform because of felseekers and shadowforce
People chain reaction exploding marks
People dying because marks didn't explode before the timer ends. That includes interrupting Shadowbolt Volleys when you are not supposed to (If you use this strat) or not going to Wrath of Gul'dan to blow the marks up (If you use this one as well)
People killing themselves on wrath stacking for AOEs and Shadowforces
People not soaking fears on P3, creating small slow puddles and losing 3 people on 1st P3 Fear.
Too many people soaking fears on P3, creating a puddle that is the size of half the platform.
Tanks getting instagibbed on P3 combos because they didn't ask for a CD.
Healers out of tank range.

Specific things to look out for.

2nd Doom Lord mark combos with Infernal realocation. If they dont die before this mark, they will realocate on the raid and will blow up every mark with them.
3rd Doom Lord mark combos with 3rd Fel Seeker.
5th Doom Lord comes right before the transition to last phase. You should try to immune this one with Cloak of Shadows, Anti-Magic Shells, Divine Shield, Ice Blocks, Deterrence (Don't know if this one works). If he comes off, you gotta delay its dispel to 3~5 seconds before the debuff expires, or he will cast marks when Shadowforce/Imps come up.
You have to transition to last phase right after he casts the Fel Seeker right after the 5th Doom Lord has spawned. Otherwise, you're going to have Imps spawn back to back.
Control Vent/TS on P3. If people start screaming you will wipe, because the boss screams louder.

PS: Since this is a warrior forum, if you need a warr specific advice, it would be good

[Deleted]

PS: Since this is a warrior forum, if you need a warr specific advice, it would be good

Well, what about what was fucking with me last night... The Doom Spike not beeing applied.... as in... the first... ~15 pulls of the night everything was cool... then he decided not to apply it.... I'd need to MLG leap out before the fucker was dead..... blow up... charge back.... We will use a third tank (DK) next reset... but I dont see a DK not having this issue tbh... (and no, didnt use ravager @ the times)

[Reloe]

You should still get a Doomspike stack if you dodge or parry, i've tanked the fight as Guardian on doom Lord duty and as prot Warrior on Boss duty and I always got stacks when dodging for example, maybe a miss is something different but i'm not sure.

Because of strange npc movement and late interrupting you might end up in a situation where he applys a stack -> waits for swingtimer -> starts casting shadow bolt volley -> you run out of his melee range or something that would delay it another second but in the end he dies before refreshing your stacks, so you are left with 2-3seconds duration.

For Doomlord duty its just important that you taunt the doom Lord before it is able to get his first hit of on anybody else, becuase people won't run out with the 1stack and blow up marks with it. And to make sure that everyone knows where you'll be running out with the stacks at which specific time during the fight.

If you're doing the boss next time I advice you to use Anger Management. The reason for that is that you'll be able to push down the cooldown of Last Stand so you can use it for every Massive Blast that you are taking. and obviously you wanna run Unyielding Strikes in combination with that, just pop Last stand ~7-10sec prior to the combo since you're switching after anyway and you'll be fine.

Warrior are probably the best class for taking combos, mainly because of the Last Stand part. You should never drop dangerously low and I basically never needed any external cd's unless something went wrong in p3(you can even take a 2nd massive Blast without too many issues honestly). And you don't rely on Dodge-RNG like brewmasters or (depending on lvl 100talent) guardians.

[Deleted]

If you're doing the boss next time I advice you to use Anger Management. The reason for that is that you'll be able to push down the cooldown of Last Stand so you can use it for every Massive Blast that you are taking. and obviously you wanna run Unyielding Strikes in combination with that, just pop Last stand ~7-10sec prior to the combo since you're switching after anyway and you'll be fine.

Thanks, I ran Anger Management our first night but it's not generally my go to talent. As for unyielding strikes I LOATH this talent... but I guess for this fight in combo with that talent it makes sense.

(And yes, I loath it because I'm not good enough and I tend to spend most of my rage on barriers when I have a surplus :-X)

[Deleted]

I would honestly argue against running 3 tanks, I never really saw the point of it on progression and don't really see the point now when the DPS are overgeared and killing doom lords on time should never be an issue.
For wrath soaking you can quite happily take 20 stacks with self cd's only as a prot warrior.
This gives you more burn DPS in the final transition which reduces the fight difficulty by having a few % less to deal with in the final phase which on progress does make a big difference.

As I've said, I'm not really a fan of 3 tanks on this fight at all and it feels a bit of a cop-out as with careful planning you completely eliminate the need for a 3rd tank

[gambino3]

I would honestly argue against running 3 tanks, I never really saw the point of it on progression and don't really see the point now when the DPS are overgeared and killing doom lords on time should never be an issue.
For wrath soaking you can quite happily take 20 stacks with self cd's only as a prot warrior.
This gives you more burn DPS in the final transition which reduces the fight difficulty by having a few % less to deal with in the final phase which on progress does make a big difference.

As I've said, I'm not really a fan of 3 tanks on this fight at all and it feels a bit of a cop-out as with careful planning you completely eliminate the need for a 3rd tank

Pretty much this, guilds who run 3 tanks are just well bad, simple as

[Digatron]

Pretty much this, guilds who run 3 tanks are just well bad, simple as

Explain how guilds that run "3 tanks" are bad? I don't comprehend.

[gambino3]

Explain how guilds that run "3 tanks" are bad? I don't comprehend.

Quite simple, the fact that your 2 tanks aren't capable of dealing with blasts / explosion , while not putting raid into danger and hence require a third tank to do a job that's easily doable with just 2 , shows that your players aren't capable of playing properly, regardless of guild you are in atm.

[Reloe]

the argument "if your guild can't 2tank fight xy they are just bad" is so stupid. It is a fact that running 3tanks will give you less wipes to tanking issues, pretty much regardless of how good your 2tanks are playing. Its also not only depending on the tanks, but also on the dps how fast doom lords can get killed. For most guilds running 3tanks will probably result in less wipes overal. That applies to many bosses like furnace, blackhand, imperator to only name a few. (Blackhand for example wasn't really because of high dmg income on the tanks, but it would make it easier to taunt the boss into the group in p2 so everyone could get up to the balcony reliably without needing to call for backups, which was the issue for many guilds)

[Deleted]

Explain how guilds that run "3 tanks" are bad? I don't comprehend.

He's making something that's gray a lot more black and white if you ask me.

I would agree it's not needed at all though, we had a few problems two tanking it but we're mostly three tanking it now for a few simple reasons;

- Our DPS would make the timing of the doomlord dying pretty akward for me to get back on time :-(
- We're using the Doom Spike to pop the mark of Doom, this is a LOT harder with two tanks (yes doable still)
- Our second DK is our least experienced and most undergeared tank, meaning we'd have to use a less experienced tank as one of the two tanks doing the job which is not ideal.

I wouldn't say anyone that uses three tanks is bad though, I can also give arguments why two tanks are better if your players can pull it off. The forgiveness doing it with three tanks is simply higher and if you can pull it off with the current gear, why not?

[Ashenia]

We started with 3 tanks strategy, but slowly moved towards 2 as it was still doable. It requires a bit of coordination from your Doomlord/Boss tank and depending on your DPS 2nd tank might need to take 2 stacks which are easily doable with CD's (or/and ring).

It seems way more controllable with 2 as you get imps/dooms etc dpsed down faster, leaving your raid to focus on movement when needed. Everything depends how much pressure you want to put on 2nd tank and how good your dps is, I guess.

[Deleted]

If you got high dps there is no reason not to use a 3rd tank if that is what gives you the kill. Go with what is better for your setup. For us Imps die in 3-4sec and half the lords don't even get to cast doom before they are dead.

[Digatron]

Quite simple, the fact that your 2 tanks aren't capable of dealing with blasts / explosion , while not putting raid into danger and hence require a third tank to do a job that's easily doable with just 2 , shows that your players aren't capable of playing properly, regardless of guild you are in atm.

So most guilds that killed it in the top 10 when content was actually hard are considered bad. Okay, thanks for letting me know.

[Deleted]

So most guilds that killed it in the top 10 when content was actually hard are considered bad. Okay, thanks for letting me know.

From the top 10 guilds after Archimonde the only one I can see that used 3 tanks was the Chinese guild Seven-huang.
From the top 10 that killed Mannoroth at the time I can only see Midwinter using 3 Tanks.

From what I saw from personal experience in Ascendance we never really considered using 3 tanks all that much as it didn't seem to provide any real benefit, I think we tried it for 1 or 2 pulls and then just went back to how we were doing it before.
It was doable without the gear and rings before and its even more doable now, that's just my opinion on it.

[Reloe]

imperator and furnace were doable with 2tanks aswell, but most guilds chose 3tanks, its the same discussion for every single boss. On Manno it can be strat/tankclass dependent, every guild has to figure it out on their own.
We progressed it with 2tanks but went for 3tanks for the actual kill (mostly because we had too many dps missing though and a healer would've had to use a bad dps spec)
@eddy method used 3tanks aswell.

[Thugonomics]

We've been running 2 tanks and I believe our best attempt has been 32%. I don't see the need for another unless they do something insane in the last phase.

[Deleted]

imperator and furnace were doable with 2tanks aswell, but most guilds chose 3tanks, its the same discussion for every single boss. On Manno it can be strat/tankclass dependent, every guild has to figure it out on their own.
We progressed it with 2tanks but went for 3tanks for the actual kill (mostly because we had too many dps missing though and a healer would've had to use a bad dps spec)
@eddy method used 3tanks aswell.

True but I would argue that Furnace and Imperator had a lot more mileage out of 3 tanks than Mannoroth

[Tehterokkar]

It highly depends on what tanking classes you have also, we had a bear + DK during progress, so we decided to 3 tank it with an off-spec Bear as the 2nd tank on boss and DK on Doomlord because they take 0 damage from Doomspike with AMS.