New discipline concept for Legion is a terrible idea

[Deleted]

50/50 Healing dps doesn't work in this game, it simply does not. Back in Vanilla nobody took feral or balance druids or elemental shaman or ret paladins.

Do you know why? Because their dps sucked and anything they offered as a hybrid could be done better than a healer.

I know you're probably thinking oh but we're a far cry away from Vanilla, it's an entirely different from then but here is the underlying main point;

If people wanted to take a dps or a healer, they would take a dps or a healer. Not something in between that puts out abyssmal numbers trying to do both roles badly.

It's very simple, jack of all trades doesn't apply in wow because that "jack" actually is not as strong as a jack, it's more of a 3 or 4 of clubs, while everyone else is an ace because they're specced for that role.

[Pearl1717]

The spec will never be a true hybrid that does 50% damage and 50% healing. It will do 50% of its healing through dps and 50% through normal healing spells, like in MoP.

But, I guess we don't know for sure what it will actually be like. But I cannot imagine that blizzard would truly make disc a hybrid spec.

[Deleted]

Theres so many different things this can mean and so many diffrent ways they can do this. Information isnt even there yet, no reason to jump to things lol

[whywhatwhowhenhow]

I don't think they can pull it off either. We'll probably end up with smite healing again same as MoP. Which I'm fine with, atleast you can have more than 1 disc in the raid... but if prayer of healing is still group based... I swear to God Blizzard! *shakes fist*

[nobodysbaby]

It will be imbalanced no matter what % they will make it... Enrage timers is always a problem in progress, and a healer that does equal healing as others, bring absorb/dmg reduction and dps will be so far ahead, we have already seen that. I don't think it will be a success bringing down the healing done since meters matters too much in WoW in general. Imagine Disc doing 40k dps and 60k hps when all other healers do 90k hps without dmg, it would mean LFG kicks and glaring I guess. I'm not saying that's not the way it should be... hehe

[blargh312]

You should probably wait to see what they're actually doing to Disc before you call it a terrible idea.

[Abajaba]

You should probably wait to see what they're actually doing to Disc before you call it a terrible idea.

This is nobody's first rodeo. Blizz can't do it.

[Tehterokkar]

I for one loved SoO Disc where Smite spam was the way to go for downtime healing, in WoD it just feels so weak to heal even dungeons with just Smite.

[apples]

This is nobody's first rodeo. Blizz can't do it.

i guess its a good thing no one takes these threads as anything other than bitch and moan threads

[Blacklabel]

Loot, this part is easy:

Disc is a healing spec so it does 100% healing.



Don't get confused about the next part:

50% of that healing is generated through dps spells

and 50% is healing with direct healing spells.

Please do not worry Blizzard will fix it, eventually, some time....

[Deleted]

This is nobody's first rodeo. Blizz can't do it.

Exactly, we've been down this path before and what we've learned is that it never works out. There is no rationale that can resolve this mess. You either have a spec that can't do anything well but does everything badly or you have something that does everything well and is therefore imbalanced. That's the only possible outcome. Call it bitching and moaning all you want, if you can see this working out, please share how you think the mechanics would have to work out in order for it to not be like described scenario above - bad at everything or overpowered.

[Yetiman]

I sort of liked how the spec worked going into DS back in Cata, once they finally fixed the glaring atonement issues, but before they made it OP like in MoP. Of course, we also had SS which worked so-so, but we pre-casted and stacked PoH to compensate, so it kind of balanced out IMO. I think that was, overall, the most neutral place we've been throughout Disc's history. We weren't OP, but as always, knowledge of incoming damage patterns would let us shine. However, it is a damn ballbuster that after 10 years, we still have to urge a raid leader to position players and groups in certain places to maximize our efficiency. As Pai Mei says, Blizzard, get your shit together...

[Scorched2Black]

There isn't enough information about it yet to make a fuss... So why are you making a fuss?

Let's worry/focus on it when we have something constructive to discuss, some beta gameplay for example.

Until then it's just a bunch of moaning innit?

[shanthi]

Exactly, we've been down this path before and what we've learned is that it never works out. There is no rationale that can resolve this mess. You either have a spec that can't do anything well but does everything badly or you have something that does everything well and is therefore imbalanced. That's the only possible outcome.

Those aren't the only two options. Another option, the one I consider likeliest, is that discipline will be 100% a healer and 0% a DPS, but will do (roughly) half their healing through DPS spells. How are both those things possible? By making discipline's damage spells do minimal damage but carry a huge Atonement healing amplification. So Smite, for example, hits like a wet noodle, but does, say, 500% of its damage as healing. Or whatever percentage makes the healing a decent filler heal.

That can very easily be balanced, because it's not a hybrid role. In that design, discipline is not both a healer and a DPS. It's only a healer, but the vehicle through which it does its healing is (weak-hitting) damage spells as well as healing spells. The idea would be for discipline to still be balanced against other healing specs according to its healing output and contribute very little DPS.

[anon5123]

Blizz needs to just scrap Disc as a healing spec and make it a melee DPS spec like back in vanilla alpha.

For three straight expansions now they've shown that they can't balance it properly, and at any given time, it's either OP or terrible.

[Mechonics]

50/50 Healing dps doesn't work in this game, it simply does not. Back in Vanilla nobody took feral or balance druids or elemental shaman or ret paladins.

Do you know why? Because their dps sucked and anything they offered as a hybrid could be done better than a healer.

I know you're probably thinking oh but we're a far cry away from Vanilla, it's an entirely different from then but here is the underlying main point;

If people wanted to take a dps or a healer, they would take a dps or a healer. Not something in between that puts out abyssmal numbers trying to do both roles badly.

It's very simple, jack of all trades doesn't apply in wow because that "jack" actually is not as strong as a jack, it's more of a 3 or 4 of clubs, while everyone else is an ace because they're specced for that role.

Uhh...did you even raid in vanilla? My guild had Fury Warriors with TF, enhancement shaman's with Hand of Rag and Shadow priests. TBC was when hybrid's sucking was really a thing and they then homogenized things in Wrath.

The reason people didn't play DPS specs as hybrids in Vanilla is because if you weren't already in a good guild that trusted you to perform, you weren't going to get into one because they probably weren't going to let a new raider have fun with their DPS spec over someone that had been in the guild a while who earned that spot.

[Genzen Han]

I don't understand why priests need to be the 'dps healing' spec. Shouldn't the plate-wearing, shield-and-sword-using paladins be the ones in the more offensive style? Fits far better than the 'pissed off priest' idea. Give Paladins a mastery more in-line with offense/being in melee range (every auto-attack generates mana and/or does a smart heal), and give Disc priests the current Paladin mastery, where all their heals generate small shields to offer a little buffer against damage, rather than getting huge-ass DAs to soak up everything. Then make PW:S too mana-intensive to spam (something like a debuff that increases mana cost of subsequent PWS cast within a small time frame, and stacks), and make PoH not group-based any more, but still keep it as an expensive, non-spammable ability, and we're good to go. Allow Smite and Heal to be roughly the same power (Smite being 'smart' and offering AA stacks; Heal being a chosen target and maybe a bit cheaper), and make PoM good again, and we have a spec that works.

PWS will be used as an instant cast life-saver ("oh shit, that guy's at 5% and there's another AoE coming")
PoH will be used when a lot of people have taken a lot of damage
PoM will be bouncing around doing its thing
Smite/Heal will be the primary healing spells
FH will be used when someone needs more intensive healing

This then opens up some currently lackluster talents:
Without the ability to PWS spam, Spirit Shell becomes worthy of consideration, since it would be the only way to mass-target shields in anticipation of high damage.
Clarity of Will becomes more than just a utility spell - it would allow you to continue to blanket the raid or specific members with shields in a mana-friendly manner, but it has a cast time and costs you a talent that could be used elsewhere (you lose the free PoMs bouncing around).
ToF becomes worth looking at, since we're not just spamming non-affected spells - we're using Heal and PoH a lot more, so the chance to proc it would actually be significant.

Like this, we'd still be offering our absorbs as utility, but it would come in the form of smaller, more consistent bubbles through mastery, and then through hard-cast CoWs, a CD-restricted SS, and a mana-intensive PWS, so we'd still be having to heal health deficits and wouldn't be such an annoyance to other healers.

[Al Gorefiend]

Why can't they just give Disc a talent thats worded something like:

Increases the damage and healing of smite, holy fire, holy nova and penance by 100%, converts 100% of holy damage into healing, but reduces all absorption by 80% and mana regen by 80%.

This is something I want to see, mind you those numbers are half-assed so don't bother simming my concept. Players can choose to play the fistweaver disc priest or continue on the WoD way. I think SoO Disc was too powerful and too not fun for non-disc healers. Sure, I loved being 80% of all healing done for H Nazgrim, but I raided with a Shaman who's top healing was stacking inside his rain.

[Tehterokkar]

Why can't they just give Disc a talent thats worded something like:

Increases the damage and healing of smite, holy fire, holy nova and penance by 100%, converts 100% of holy damage into healing, but reduces all absorption by 80% and mana regen by 80%.

This is something I want to see, mind you those numbers are half-assed so don't bother simming my concept. Players can choose to play the fistweaver disc priest or continue on the WoD way. I think SoO Disc was too powerful and too not fun for non-disc healers. Sure, I loved being 80% of all healing done for H Nazgrim, but I raided with a Shaman who's top healing was stacking inside his rain.

Uhh... why..? You need mana regen to maintain even smite spam.

[Rfx]

The new disc model to me is great. The game HAS changed and there's probably going to always be a need for what the new disc priest will be able to offer. In HFC, for instance, healer dps was nigh pivotal for multiple progression kills. On tyrant, I pretty much sat in red chakra as we pushed her to phase 2 smiting to push her out the phase ASAP. Healers molested doomfire spirits on archimonde so we had to pick up less fire, did damage in p3, ect. The game HAS changed. This is NOT Vanilla. Healer damage matters, all the change does it make it more rewarding.

The disc re-work makes it feel more rewarding to deal damage instead of spam shields. Back like in MoP where disc damage meant something and it is a step in the opposite direction of pws pws pws pws pws pws pws pws pws pws pws pws pws which is only a positive.