So how's Elemental now?

[Deleted]

i made it my alt knowing they are not super good =) i play shaman couse the specs apeal to me in a fun way. i find all 3 specs to be fun=) but i want to still want to get the most out of the dps spec and so am not totaly sure which of the specs are best to go with. =)

[Murderdoll]

Ot but if being melee aint a problem would enhancment be better overall then elemental?

Enhance is in a very similar spot. I wouldnt say Enhance is as bad, I think its in a better place but still has some overall downfalls.

Despite being slightly higher on the ST food chain, they suffer from a lot of fights not being catered to their AoE and the ones that are, are simply padding. Burst AoE is king and will destroy any chance of you using Fire Nova to its full potential.

A large issue with Enhance is that it is melee. Noone wants a melee for mythic raiding unless youre a rogue or a death knight.

If youre in heroics, Enhance or Ele will be fine. Both will suffer until you get trinkets and tier, but theyll compete. Mythic, is where you start to see some major cracks.

[DevilsAdvocate]

Correct, however, for a lot of guilds still progressing through Mythics a lot of Elemenetals weaknesses shine through and despite not being in the world first race can be a hindrance for some. Gorefiend for many guilds is the first hard fight and is a fight where an Elemental Shaman - if your other DPS cannot take up the slack - is an absolute burden.

Other than target switching how bad are they? Target switching is a pain because of the flameshock setup but you can hope for good procs of earth shock from your t18 set bonus. Also using lava burst on an on-flameshock target is still doable if not great. On short-lived AOE, they are ok, on long-lived AOE adds they are fantastic. Single-target for all extents and purposes seems fixed. My single-target is competitive with the hardcore single target classes after the buffs.

Target switching is a pretty big hole in the elemental toolset I admit.

Again, totally dependant on the guild and how the player and players around them perform. I really dislike when people say this and mention their guild or something (not that you did but it sounds like your comparing). Get a bunch of people together that are really like skilled and are having to have the Shaman on priority target adds and the Ele isnt going to have a great time.

You need to learn how to really push your strengths and really shine at them and maybe, if the raid leader doesnt know, that you if possible are not suited to certain roles.

Yeah, you can't put shamans on short-lived priority adds and expect them to do well. However, they are still good at some roles and at the very least their patchwork dps is no longer absolute trash due to elemental mastery and ascendance being on a 2 minute CD and pairing well with the ring.

Right now at the very least an elemental shaman will be by far superior on AOE fights and decent on cleave fights. That's before the 4% buff coming up. They will have holes that a hunter, mage, or warlock will be better suited for but only for equally skilled players. I think the argument can be made a well-played elemental shaman is superior to a mediocre hunter or other pure ranged dps class.

[Niwes]

These mostly sum it up. Except 'everything' isn't quite correct. Thinking about it briefly one would say that, but looking at the breakdown a bit further reduces the hit:
Subjectively:
Assault - good cause aoe.
Reaver - ok. good single target, sucky cause of bombs.
Kormrok - ok. its single target. you wont get aoe chance unless no-one else is aoeing the hands.
Council - good. Bit of cleave, plus multidot chance with trinket for more lava surges
Kilrogg - bad. unless you get to go down, then you're godmode.
Gorefiend - bad. no buts. its bad
Iskar - good. single target plus sustained aoe phases.
Fel Lord - good. purely single target
Soc - good. single target chance, and aoe chances too
Xhul - good. aoe all of the day
Mannoroth - ok. little aoe if youre lucky, mostly st
Archie - ok. bit of single target. but still target swapping. a little aoe

that list is correct. but, as we see above, the problem of ele (and its exactly the same for enhancement) isnt that much the fast target switch thing, its the "below average ST dmg".

because adds dont live that long, and other classes can cleave/aoe also very well, its the bad ST that make ele and enh that bad in hfc. because in hfc (besides target switch focus dmg, look at gorefiend) there is always a short period of adds (ghosts at soc, hands at komrok, imps at manno) that are killed very fast. the rest (most) of the fight is ST. or its ST only (maybe with 1 add cleave, we also arent good at there), like tyrant, zakuun, reaver, killrog (outside visions).

we clearly see: the lack of good ST is our real problem. and we dont need burst ST dmg (for fast target switch adds killing), even a good sustained boss ST buff would be enough.

our great strength is sustained aoe. but the only real fights for sustained packed aoe mobs, which living long enough, is xhul and iskar and to a degree assault (but thats just trash ^^). and thats what sucks. as ele as well as enhancement.

blizz, buff our ST and lower our aoe (thats easy, because its just firenova/earthquake). do it !

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Other than target switching how bad are they? Target switching is a pain because of the flameshock setup but you can hope for good procs of earth shock from your t18 set bonus. Also using lava burst on an on-flameshock target is still doable if not great. On short-lived AOE, they are ok, on long-lived AOE adds they are fantastic. Single-target for all extents and purposes seems fixed. My single-target is competitive with the hardcore single target classes after the buffs.

Target switching is a pretty big hole in the elemental toolset I admit.



Yeah, you can't put shamans on short-lived priority adds and expect them to do well. However, they are still good at some roles and at the very least their patchwork dps is no longer absolute trash due to elemental mastery and ascendance being on a 2 minute CD and pairing well with the ring.

Right now at the very least an elemental shaman will be by far superior on AOE fights and decent on cleave fights. That's before the 4% buff coming up. They will have holes that a hunter, mage, or warlock will be better suited for but only for equally skilled players. I think the argument can be made a well-played elemental shaman is superior to a mediocre hunter or other pure ranged dps class.

on what is your oppinion of good ST based ? what buffs are you talking about ? that hillarious 4% in the last ptr notes ? that nearly every class gets also ? around 20-25% is much more accurate if you want to bring the picture, you are describing above, to reality.

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Enhance is in a very similar spot. I wouldnt say Enhance is as bad, I think its in a better place but still has some overall downfalls.

Despite being slightly higher on the ST food chain, they suffer from a lot of fights not being catered to their AoE and the ones that are, are simply padding. Burst AoE is king and will destroy any chance of you using Fire Nova to its full potential.

A large issue with Enhance is that it is melee. Noone wants a melee for mythic raiding unless youre a rogue or a death knight.

If youre in heroics, Enhance or Ele will be fine. Both will suffer until you get trinkets and tier, but theyll compete. Mythic, is where you start to see some major cracks.

absolutelly correct.

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No, go Hunter. There's no downside to bring 5 or more hunters, instead of 3 hunters and 1 Elemental, 1 Enh.

in hc you are right. but if u talk about myth, i have bad news for you: hunter is not that great.

see here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8

[freddy090909]

What I don't understand is that Elemental is getting a 4% buff to our entire toolkit. It just shows a lack of understanding by blizzard (they're basically just throwing us a bone, it would seem). I'd much rather see no buff to our chain lightning or earthquake, but a bigger buff to our actual spells that need it. A much larger single target buff (along the lines of 8%), with no AoE change would be MUCH more meaningful at solving our problems.

That said, I guess I shouldn't complain. At least they seem to acknowledge that elemental could use some love.

[Deleted]

How big of a DPS increase is it really? Is it flat 4% or are there some interactions due to Mastery being buffed as well.

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in hc you are right. but if u talk about myth, i have bad news for you: hunter is not that great.

see here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/8

It's not always about DPS. Hunters have amazing mobility, target switching and are the best priority target burst class. They bring an adequate tool for almost every task.

[Deleted]

Elemental has the same problems people pointed out since the first WoD beta build. Its not just the ST dmg or target switching, its also movement and bad talent choices on top of outdated and clunky class design. We know it, Blizzard knows it - if they dont announce something today, then Elemental is officially done.

Dunno why there's even a need of posting about this topic, especially if you've no clue anyways. Most hardcore raiding Elementals, including me, changed their classes already and wont look back, unless Elemental somehow beats mages, locks or hunters to any combination of raid utility, dmg, survivability, taking jobs on encounters, etc.

[DeiVias]

I'm really hoping for good things in 13 hours when the blog goes live.

God knows if anyone deserves it we do.