6-year-old suspended for shooting "Pretend" Bow and Arrow

[Ciddy]

I agree with a lot of the heightened security stuff for schools that came along after Columbine (metal detectors, kids have to use see-through backpacks, etc), but this is definitely a case where "zero tolerance" went to the point of stupidity. Principal in this story is a dipshit, IMO.

[Rizendragon]

How many schools have an Archdiocese?

This. Obviously that isn't the private school these parents should be sending their child. Pull him/her out and speak with your money.

[Elim Garak]

When I was a kid I had a knife with which I wouldn't be allowed on a plane today. In the summer I went to the nearby forest to cut a suitable branch of a tree to make a real bow out of (and a sling too) then cut a bunch of suitable branches to make arrows. Then I used that real bow and real arrows (and real sling) to shoot some glass jars filled with water.

I used a real sling to shoot a real stone into some real boy's ass.

When I was a bit older I moved on to pneumatic - custom made (by myself - almost everyone got one) BB gun. I knew a guy who had a custom made PISTOL, you know like the old one-shot ones from the 13th century. It was made out of a pipe, using a bearing ball for a projectile and some milled match heads as a substitute for gunpowder. And it worked albeit imprecise and with a very limited firing range, and probably not that lethal unless fired at pitch blank...

Today I would've been probably declared a terrorist and executed on sight without a trial..

[Reeve]

They aren't, really. Teachers and school admin staff have very little means to actually punish any students. Even things like detention don't work any more, because parents protest because it interferes with extracurriculars.

What suspensions (and expulsions) basically boil down to is a school saying "your kid's a mess and we're not wasting our time trying to correct your bad parenting; fix your kid". It gets the kid out of the school so they stop impacting other kids' learning, and puts the onus on the parents, particularly when the kids are young enough that they can't be left home alone (if both parents are working). It's a "not our problem" response, by the school, not an attempt to punish.

Not that I agree with this suspension, but that's the basis behind the concept.

Either way, it's not helpful. It sends the kid away from school, which is what they want to begin with, and causes them to miss classroom content. When kids start getting behind, they tend to get less interested and more detached over time.

I guess I just feel like "not our problem" is not an acceptable response from a public school, especially when we know that a lot of parents suck. Giving up on a kid because his parents can't be asked to teach him or her to behave doesn't seem like something our school system should be doing. And frankly, parents protesting because detention interferes with extracurriculars seems like less of a problem than parents complaining about suspensions. If you can tell them to suck it up for one of those things, you should be able to do so for the other.

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When I was a kid I had a knife with which I wouldn't be allowed on a plane today. In the summer I went to the nearby forest to cut a suitable branch of a tree to make a real bow out of (and a sling too) then cut a bunch of suitable branches to make arrows. Then I used that real bow and real arrows (and real sling) to shoot some glass jars filled with water.

I used a real sling to shoot a real stone into some real boy's ass.

When I was a bit older I moved on to pneumatic - custom made (by myself - almost everyone got one) BB gun. I knew a guy who had a custom made PISTOL, you know like the old one-shot ones from the 13th century. It was made out of a pipe, using a bearing ball for a projectile and some milled match heads as a substitute for gunpowder. And it worked albeit imprecise and with a very limited firing range, and probably not that lethal unless fired at pitch blank...

Today I would've been probably declared a terrorist and executed on sight without a trial..

Yeah, I always carried a swiss army knife when I was a middle/high school student. Used it almost daily. One day in a shop kind of class, I pulled it out to use it for some project and another kid yelled, "KNIFE AT SCHOOL!!!" The teacher just looked at him and said, "It's Trevor. What do you think he's going to do with it? Shut up and mind your own business."

[turboether]

Imagine the consequences if it was a pretend gun.

It could have all been prevented if the other children had pretend guns.

[GennGreymane]

this is dumb

[Ciddy]

Today I would've been probably declared a terrorist and executed on sight without a trial..

You'd get expelled today for a lot of the games kids played when I was in school. We used to take those little cap guns (the ones that had the little "snap rings" or whatever they were called and made a loud bang but were otherwise harmless) to school and use them to play stuff like Cowboys & Indians.

I do know from experience that things like Nerf guns would get taken away if you were caught with them, but you sure as hell wouldn't get suspended or expelled for it.

Funny how nobody got hurt, and the kids who played it didn't end up becoming criminals/terrorists later in life. Imagine that.

[Endus]

Either way, it's not helpful. It sends the kid away from school, which is what they want to begin with, and causes them to miss classroom content. When kids start getting behind, they tend to get less interested and more detached over time.

It's not meant to help the kid who's suspended. It's meant to help the kids whose classroom he was disturbing, by removing him. Suspensions aren't a punishment, they're just a means to say "not our problem" and get the problem-causing child out of the school.

I guess I just feel like "not our problem" is not an acceptable response from a public school, especially when we know that a lot of parents suck. Giving up on a kid because his parents can't be asked to teach him or her to behave doesn't seem like something our school system should be doing. And frankly, parents protesting because detention interferes with extracurriculars seems like less of a problem than parents complaining about suspensions. If you can tell them to suck it up for one of those things, you should be able to do so for the other.

Public schools have a mandate to teach all their students, and don't have the resources or authority required to deal with problem kids. When those kids are causing a disturbance, the learning of everyone else takes priority. The only real alternatives, here, would be empowering teachers with significant additional authority to enact punishments (meaning they can overrule parents when it comes to things like letting the child leave school grounds when facing detention), or massively increasing funding for schools, so that these kids can be separated and handled appropriately without impacting on everyone else.

Suspensions aren't the best solution, they're just the only reasonable one that teachers have available.

Again; not defending THIS suspension, just the practice itself.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

HAHAHA They think suspended means punishment. Meanwhile in the kid's head " YAY HOLIDAY"

[Katchii]

I guess I just feel like "not our problem" is not an acceptable response from a public school, especially when we know that a lot of parents suck.

It's not the schools responsibility to raise children, it's to teach children. And if one fuckwad kid is screwing it up for the rest of them, they need to remove the problem.

Yeah some parents suck... but it's not everyone else's responsibility to fix that problem either.

[Reeve]

It's not the schools responsibility to raise children, it's to teach children. And if one fuckwad kid is screwing it up for the rest of them, they need to remove the problem.

Yeah some parents suck... but it's not everyone else's responsibility to fix that problem either.

You can't teach a child you've suspended from classes.

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It's not meant to help the kid who's suspended. It's meant to help the kids whose classroom he was disturbing, by removing him. Suspensions aren't a punishment, they're just a means to say "not our problem" and get the problem-causing child out of the school.



Public schools have a mandate to teach all their students, and don't have the resources or authority required to deal with problem kids. When those kids are causing a disturbance, the learning of everyone else takes priority. The only real alternatives, here, would be empowering teachers with significant additional authority to enact punishments (meaning they can overrule parents when it comes to things like letting the child leave school grounds when facing detention), or massively increasing funding for schools, so that these kids can be separated and handled appropriately without impacting on everyone else.

Suspensions aren't the best solution, they're just the only reasonable one that teachers have available.

Again; not defending THIS suspension, just the practice itself.

I'd be totally cool with empowering teachers with the authority to enact punishments (within reason).

[Ciddy]

HAHAHA They think suspended means punishment. Meanwhile in the kid's head " YAY HOLIDAY"

Heh, yeah. Although I guess it depends on the situation with the kid's parents. I never got suspended or anything, but in my case, my mom had a "work from home" job, so she could've handled keeping me at home for a couple of days without having to go out of her way. She probably wouldn't have been happy about whatever I did to get in trouble, but she would've been able to deal with it easily enough.

But I'd imagine some parents who have to make babysitting arrangements would be pretty pissed and would take it out on the kid.

[TrumpIsPresident]

Zero tolerance is a concept that only works for people who don't understand the concepts of "context" and "shades of gray". They don't want to evaluate situations on their merits, so they come up with stupidly generic rules that they don't have to think about.

Did somebody steal your account?

Because you ...saying this ...is bizarre.

But I'd say cheers and I'd ask you practice what you preach.

[I Cannot Fap To That]

'Murica, land of the free. Where anyone can own and carry a real gun anywhere,

Not even close to reality.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

You can't teach a child you've suspended from classes.

But they can more effectively teach the 20 or so students that remain after removing the one child who was causing disruption. It's a net gain, prioritizing the education of 20 students over the education of a single student.
Honestly this has been explained repeatedly, I really don't understand why you can't grasp the concept.

[the game]

But they can more effectively teach the 20 or so students that remain after removing the one child who was causing disruption. It's a net gain, prioritizing the education of 20 students over the education of a single student.
Honestly this has been explained repeatedly, I really don't understand why you can't grasp the concept.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the little shit who wants to disrupt class.

[Elim Garak]

But they can more effectively teach the 20 or so students that remain after removing the one child who was causing disruption. It's a net gain, prioritizing the education of 20 students over the education of a single student.
Honestly this has been explained repeatedly, I really don't understand why you can't grasp the concept.

I don't see how whatever the kid is doing during a recess makes them a problem child who disrupts the teaching process in the class.

[Jotaux]

When I was a kid we would play in this creek behind our house and make bows and arrows. Somehow we are at a point where making a gun shape with your hand or shooting an imaginary bow is worse...

[Katchii]

You can't teach a child you've suspended from classes.

You also can't teach the rest of the class if you have a child causing problems and taking teaching time away from the rest of the kids. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few in this case.

I'd be totally cool with empowering teachers with the authority to enact punishments (within reason).

So you'd be OK with: 1) It now being a part of the teachers responsibility to deal with this stuff instead of actually teaching, and 2) Due to them having the responsibility to deal with this crap, taking time away from teaching the rest of the kids?

I sure as hell wouldn't want my child to have his classroom experience completely disrupted because the teacher was forced to deal with this kind of situation.

Also something I just realized. Not every situation should be dealt with in front of other children. Therefore, if the teacher the one responsible for "dealing with it" they'd have to find someone else to take over their classroom while they went and took care of it. How many extra staff do you think schools have to just sit in a classroom until the teacher gets back?

I don't see how whatever the kid is doing during a recess makes them a problem child who disrupts the teaching process in the class.

In this case, I completely agree. Just because a kid does something out of line on the playground doesn't make them an in-classroom problem that requires suspension. This kid should not have been suspended.

[Succath]

Murica fuck YeaH!! , but seriously, what a retarded reason to suspend a six year old.