Protection legion Discussion

[Stagga24]

If it's just a tool tip clarification how is the health portion calculated if you don't have any portion of the health part in the math?

[Deleted]

If it's just a tool tip clarification how is the health portion calculated if you don't have any portion of the health part in the math?

If you mean the rage/damage taken formula. Absorbs also counts as damage taken so we still receive rage from absorbed damage.
If you mean health calculated in IP's, they removed that component one or two builds ago, but didn't change the tooltip yet.

[Pua]

Ah, a blue post. Funny how this wasn't in the warrior threads the specifically set up to handle warrior questions...but whatever, it's not like anyone's happy with the results anyhow. I can't wait to see how this plays out in an actual progression encounter.

"Here comes that unblockable attack, and I'm already at half health! Better use my Rage for Ignore Pain."
"HAH! ME OGRE CRUSH YOUR ABSORB. YOU TAKE TEN PERCENT DAMAGE ANYHOW BECAUSE REASONS."
"Ow! Time to use Last Stand and Shield Wall to remain alive! Now to use my Rage for Ignore--"
"NO POINT."
"What?"
"ME OGRE SAY WOWDB LIST RAGE COST AT FORTY. SO YOU NEED TAKE EIGHTY PERCENT MAX HEALTH TO GET. THAT AFTER EVERYTHING. BUT YOU WERE UNDER HALF, SO EVEN LAST STAND KEEP YOU UNDER EIGHTY PERCENT. OH, AND THIS NEW MAX HEALTH AFTER LAST STAND, SO RAGE GAIN FOR SAME DAMAGE DROP TWENTY-SEVEN PERCENT. SHOULD BE FUN WHEN SHIELD WALL WEAR OFF."
"Good thing I took Never Surrender!"
"ME OGRE SAY NEVER SURRENDER BOOST IGNORE PAIN ONLY IF YOU CAST IT. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT."
"I can use my self-healing to--"
"NOPE."
"Fine! Time for my artifact ability! Skullflame Shield!"
"ME OGRE SAY YOU CRITICALLY BLOCK, TAKE SIXTY PERCENT REDUCE DAMAGE FROM MELEE. BUT NOW RAGE GAIN CUT EQUIVILENT PERCENT. AND MAGIC ATTACK COMING SOON, YOU NO PALADIN. YOU NO BLOCK."
"Um...uh...Dragon Scales!"
"ME OGRE SAY 'CHANCE TO' ABILITIES NEVER PROC WHEN NEEDED. BUT SURE, YOU TEMPT FATE. THIRTY RAGE SEEM PRETTY GOOD NOW. CHANCE, WHAT, ONE IN FIVE? LESS?"
"Whew! Lucky break, I parried an attack!"
"GOOD FOR YOU. YOU DELAY INEVITABLE WITH NO RAGE GAIN. NOW MAGIC ATTACK COMING SLIGHTLY SOONER."
"What if I use Booming Voice?"
"ME OGRE DOUBT SUCH. OBVIOUS CHOICE ULTIMATUM-VENGEANCE COMBO, AND IN PROGRESSION CONTENT YOU NO USE FOCUS RAGE. IS STUPID ABILITY. OR MAYBE YOU TAKE BOOMING VOICE. AND YOU NO USE DEMO SHOUT FIRST BEFORE LONGER COOLDOWN LAST STAND SHIELD WALL? SEEM UNLIKELY TO ME OGRE."
"Ahah! I'll use Battle Cry, land an automatic crit with Ultimatum, use the free Focused Rage to cut my Ignore Pain cost in half! Now I just need 20 Rage, so I need to take...uh..."
"THINK QUICKLY. ME SWING TIMER FICKLE MISTRESS."
"...uh..."
"LOOK, IS NO ROCKET SURGERY. YOU MUST TAKE DAMAGE TWICE HEALTH PERCENT AS DESIRED RAGE, AFTER ALL REDUCTIONS. SO FOR TWENTY RAGE YOU MUST TAKE FORTY PERCENT MAX HEALTH DAMAGE. AND YOU UNDER HALF ALREADY WITH NO COOLDOWNS LEFT."
"So how am I supposed to get out of this?"
"ME OGRE NO MAKE RULE. ME OGRE ENFORCE WITH CLUB."
*squish*

If Heineken did forum posts, they'd look a little like this.

Epic.

Sadly, the latest build doesn't fix what, to me, looks like the biggest problem; rage income. Talent clean ups and worse talented self-healing than all other tank classes have at baseline is lovely and all, but warriors still look laughably incapable compared to paladins and death knights in particular.

[Deleted]

Looks like i need to have more faith in blizz, two times now i've gone all doom and gloom only to have significant changes the very next build.

I like safeguard, and it's potential synergy with wall of steel. If you use it on your fellow tank, and stay near him, he gets 20% magic reduction + you take any melee swings immediately preceding/after the magic burst (if it isn't aoe at least). Or you can walk away if you don't want the melee swings.

[Stagga24]

If you mean the rage/damage taken formula. Absorbs also counts as damage taken so we still receive rage from absorbed damage.
If you mean health calculated in IP's, they removed that component one or two builds ago, but didn't change the tooltip yet.

From reading the forum you would have never known thanks.

[Cylunaria]

Awesome so first part was heard which we spammed since last 6 builds, talents. Anyone can tell me if there is a difference in your IP values? I'm on holidsy so no access to pc.
Now:
- neltahrion fury
- might of the vyrkul
- stamina vs rage

Doubt 2/3 things there are going to see any more revisions. Neltharion's Fury is likely to stay as is (maybe a damage nerf at some point?), and MotV even has it's own animation with demo shout if you get it. They aren't going to change it (I actually don't mind it too much, personally).

Overall right now if this state of Prot went live I would play it. Similar to past expansions I would have some gripes, but it's still fun. I Just really hope they hear how awful the rage generation formula is. Even though I didn't think it was in too bad a spot before, it was due to some short-sightedness and not predicting the damage scaling of raids to be as harsh as they always have been and will continue to be. At the very least I'd like the blocked portion of an attack to still be factored in the rage gain even if dodge/parry/miss and DR are not factored.

[FenixAU]

My biggest concern with Prot as it stands now is that the scaling of IP may not keep pace with incoming damage, especially in higher levels of Mythic raids/Mythic+, especially with so many special abilities being unblockable.

Magic damage that comes in more frequently than once every 20~ seconds will be purely at the mercy of IP - and I feel there's definitely going to come a point where that means eating more damage than, say, a Protadin who's active mitigation works on all forms of damage, or a Druid who has 10% magic damage baseline and 30% more from active mitigation. I suppose it could be worse, we could be in Brewmaster's position.. though at least stagger seems to work on all forms of damage now.

I guess it is something they can tune up IP for, if need be - but it definitely concerns me not having a % based magical active mitigation.

Edit: And yes, I know more incoming damage = more rage = more IPs. But I'm not yet convinced it'll be enough.

[Deleted]

My biggest concern with Prot as it stands now is that the scaling of IP may not keep pace with incoming damage, especially in higher levels of Mythic raids/Mythic+, especially with so many special abilities being unblockable.

Magic damage that comes in more frequently than once every 20~ seconds will be purely at the mercy of IP - and I feel there's definitely going to come a point where that means eating more damage than, say, a Protadin who's active mitigation works on all forms of damage, or a Druid who has 10% magic damage baseline and 30% more from active mitigation. I suppose it could be worse, we could be in Brewmaster's position.. though at least stagger seems to work on all forms of damage now.

I guess it is something they can tune up IP for, if need be - but it definitely concerns me not having a % based magical active mitigation.

Edit: And yes, I know more incoming damage = more rage = more IPs. But I'm not yet convinced it'll be enough.

Well, we have spell reflect now which is 30% damage reduction, i am curious though.
It last for 5 seconds, does this mean that in the time frame we will take 30% reduced magic damage, whether this spell damage can be reflected or not. Or that we only have one source of magical damage with 30% reduction?

[Marok]

Well, we have spell reflect now which is 30% damage reduction, i am curious though.
It last for 5 seconds, does this mean that in the time frame we will take 30% reduced magic damage, whether this spell damage can be reflected or not. Or that we only have one source of magical damage with 30% reduction?

You take 30% reduced magic damage for 5 seconds. It doesn't have to be reflectable. If a spell is reflected, the buff falls off.

[Breccia]

You take 30% reduces magic damage for 5 seconds. It doesn't have to be reflectable. If a spell is reflected, the buff falls off.

The artifact fixes that.

[Deleted]

You take 30% reduces magic damage for 5 seconds. It doesn't have to be reflectable. If a spell is reflected, the buff falls off.

The artifact fixes that.

Ah okay, thanks for clarifying.

[Minoss]

I'd just want so much something like "SS/Rev critical hit generate 5 rage extra". It would be high rng, as blizz like, but it's more under control than damage taken (and it increase with gear, not the opposite.

[FenixAU]

Well, we have spell reflect now which is 30% damage reduction, i am curious though.
It last for 5 seconds, does this mean that in the time frame we will take 30% reduced magic damage, whether this spell damage can be reflected or not. Or that we only have one source of magical damage with 30% reduction?

I accounted for spell reflect - 25s CD, 5s duration. The other 20 seconds are where we are likely to have some problems if IP scaling doesn't keep up (compared to SOTR, Mark of Ursol, etc.).

[Beardyface]

The more I think about the rage per damage taken problem, the more I start to think the easiest design solution would just be to give us back Battle Stance and Defensive stance as they are on live (or make battle stance cause SS and Rev to generate more rage) and just change the "1 rage every 3 sec" on Defensive Stance to "generates rage from damage taken instead of auto attacks." They'd have to tune it so the damage reduction of defensive stance makes it so you WANT to be in defensive stance while tanking, but if you really need that extra rage and are willing to risk it, you can pop a cooldown and switch to battle stance to eek out that little bit of rage you need. High risk high reward. Easy, fun, AND fits the class fantasy.

[mindw0rk]

Damn you Blizzard for listening to carebears and removing Second Wind, giving us Impending Crap instead. If it was 30% heal it could compete with other talents and would be pretty strong. But Inspiring Presence will for sure give 15% health in 30 seconds PLUS you still have 30% Victory rush PLUS you buff whole raid with leech. As of now it is weak talent which I only see being used in duels.

Safeguard should be a PvP talent since its only useful for arenas. Removal of Double Time was big hit to prots mobility. So I wouldnt call it good changes.

Warlong Challenge - this crap is even more worthless in PvP then Second Wind was for raids.

[FenixAU]

But Inspiring Presence will for sure give 15% health in 30 seconds

It sure won't, seeing as they changed Inspiring Presence last build to not effect the Warrior, only allies.

[Puck]

So as an arms warrior who is disgusted with his spec and looking to change things up, how is Prot looking for pvp in legion?

[mindw0rk]

It sure won't, seeing as they changed Inspiring Presence last build to not effect the Warrior, only allies.

WTF? So If I play prot for BGs, choosing in 30 tier is now: "what garbage is least useless"? What a disaster. Previous build all three talents were good and made a hard choice.


Testers, ask Blizzard to make Impending Victory to heal for 30% after a kill. To make this talent at least decent. Reducing cooldown to 20 seconds would also be a big improvement.
And they need to return heal to prot from Inspiring Presence. Who the hell would even take it now when warrior has 0 benefits from it? Its terrible for anything except maybe raids, but even in raids many tanks would choose Impending Crap for emergency heal.

[Breccia]

It sure won't, seeing as they changed Inspiring Presence last build to not effect the Warrior, only allies.

Also, for this to be true, you'd have to do 500% of your max health in damage over 30 seconds. If you had 500k max health, that'd be 83,333 DPS.

If you go to warcraftlogs and look at every single fight on Mythic, 75th percentile, you will see that this is higher than Prot Warriors do in every single boss. Often by 20k.

So no, no you wouidn't do 15% of your max health every 30 seconds.

[mindw0rk]

Also, for this to be true, you'd have to do 500% of your max health in damage over 30 seconds. If you had 500k max health, that'd be 83,333 DPS.
If you go to warcraftlogs and look at every single fight on Mythic, 75th percentile, you will see that this is higher than Prot Warriors do in every single boss. Often by 20k.
So no, no you wouidn't do 15% of your max health every 30 seconds.

This is why its hard to argue here. Everyone only talks about raid environment. In BG if warrior has 5-6 targets around him which is a frequent case, a simple Thunderclap-Revenge combo deals about as much damage as warriors health pool. Crackling Thunder talent would make it even more