Protection legion Discussion

[celinamuna]

There is one section in the default script where we have the tank move to get back to the boss (happens once every 40 sec or so), might be messing with it -- would probably be better to just take that out since it doesn't really give the intended result.

How would that affect your survivability ? And why wouldn't the player just Heroic leap / charge ?

[yureii00]

I am very confused, I'm trying to build my gear Pre-raid, But I don't know what is the best Stat Priority,

Haste > Versatility ~= Mastery > Crit
or
Versatility > Mastery >> Haste > Crit

[celinamuna]

I am very confused, I'm trying to build my gear Pre-raid, But I don't know what is the best Stat Priority,

Haste > Versatility ~= Mastery > Crit
or
Versatility > Mastery >> Haste > Crit

Pick anything, since it changes every 2 days or so. ������

[KingIronhide1]

I am very confused, I'm trying to build my gear Pre-raid, But I don't know what is the best Stat Priority,

Haste > Versatility ~= Mastery > Crit
or
Versatility > Mastery >> Haste > Crit

i just made a haste/mastery/vers set and a vers/mastery/haste set ...

I use the haste heavy set for speeds and the versatility tank set for new healers or healers i dont know ... vers is deffs tankier but haste has the potential do do more in quicker encounters ... so if you have some big dick dps blowing up the meters use a haste set ... if ur dps is shit or u have a new healer .. use the vers set ...

this is what the gear swapper in your character screen is for

[Outraged]

So is there any reason not to just macro Focused rage and Ignore Pain to Shield Slam / Revenge / Devastate and just spam the shit out of it? I'm still keeping high uptime for shield block and rather than reacting to vengeance buffs I'm triggering them immediately, it seems to help not having to be reactive and i can focus more on what's going on and less punishing my hand for hitting the keys.

- Currently I'm obviously prioritizing shield slam (except in large aoe packs) > Revenge > Devastate. With Vengeance i'm incentivized to alternate off FR / IP as much as possible as i'm getting more value the more I do so. Also because IP by itself (not including Dragon Scales) doesn't benefit from holding off casts.

- Because of the way I generate rage, I'm essentially dumping it as soon as I get it either to to Shield block, then IP or FR, depending on which buff is up. Because Each ability generally doesn't generate enough rage to cast both at the same time (except for shield slam crits obviously where I get FR for free), the order stays intact because i'm basically spending rage as soon as I get it.

- The only downside I see is that I'm not getting saving rage for dragon scales IP usage, and not getting the full value of a +40% max IP. But that's not really a macro question, it's a question of whether it's worth it to immediately trigger the alternating buff (higher dps and so forth).

Am I crazy? I'm noticing any difference in heroics / mythics, if anything it's giving me more focus and less punishing on my hand.

[heavenscalamity]

- The only downside I see is that I'm not getting saving rage for dragon scales IP usage, and not getting the full value of a +40% max IP. But that's not really a macro question, it's a question of whether it's worth it to immediately trigger the alternating buff (higher dps and so forth).

Am I crazy? I'm noticing any difference in heroics / mythics, if anything it's giving me more focus and less punishing on my hand.

That's a huge downside. Maximizing Dragon Scales procs is going to be a significant part of your survivability rotation once the content you're doing isn't completely trivial. Heroics and Mythics are such a joke that using them as a reference point as of now is rather foolish.

[Outraged]

Eh, I'm trying to determine how much "huge" really is in the context of the difficulty increase with each mythic+ level. I agree everything now is trivial, unfortunately that's all i have to play with at the moment. It's also a DPS loss holding rage versus converting it immediately.

Eh, I guess I already knew the answer.

[Aiqe]

Eh, I'm trying to determine how much "huge" really is in the context of the difficulty increase with each mythic+ level. I agree everything now is trivial, unfortunately that's all i have to play with at the moment. It's also a DPS loss holding rage versus converting it immediately.

Eh, I guess I already knew the answer.

Why would that be a dps loss?
Granted not counting for trinket proccs, ragewise you dont waste dps as long as at the end of the fight you have less than 30 rage. Or less than 15 if FR vengeance is up. Assuming you dont cap and preferably used your fr stacks before the thing dies.

[Shieldarm]

Why would that be a dps loss?
Granted not counting for trinket proccs, ragewise you dont waste dps as long as at the end of the fight you have less than 30 rage. Or less than 15 if FR vengeance is up. Assuming you dont cap and preferably used your fr stacks before the thing dies.

The only reason I can see it to be a dps loss to hold rage compared to use it immediately, is Ignore Pain, actually. IF you dump asap, then using that macro, IP will dump at 20 (10 if Veng) rage, with FR at 30 (15). we'll assume you use it at 10 and 15 respectively, because of Vengeance. Normally, 30 goes into Ignore Pain, and 15 into FR, so FR is only 33% of that rage. This way, 10 goes into IP, then 15 into FR, so it's actually 60% of the rage. Technically speaking, his method would be a dps increase. However, casting IP at 33% capacity is a HUGE mitigation loss. You're missing literally hundreds of thousands of IP per cast, millions over the course of a fight.

[Aiqe]

The only reason I can see it to be a dps loss to hold rage compared to use it immediately, is Ignore Pain, actually. IF you dump asap, then using that macro, IP will dump at 20 (10 if Veng) rage, with FR at 30 (15). we'll assume you use it at 10 and 15 respectively, because of Vengeance. Normally, 30 goes into Ignore Pain, and 15 into FR, so FR is only 33% of that rage. This way, 10 goes into IP, then 15 into FR, so it's actually 60% of the rage. Technically speaking, his method would be a dps increase. However, casting IP at 33% capacity is a HUGE mitigation loss. You're missing literally hundreds of thousands of IP per cast, millions over the course of a fight.

Oh, right. ALmost forgot you could use IP with less than 30 Rage..
In which case, yeah you could use tese macros for DPS or solo content, but as you stated missing out on probably hundreds of millions of Ip shielding over the course of a fight propably isnt viable in any content that actually challenges your hp or mitigation. Mybe if you have spoken to you healer to look out more for you but yeah..

[Milocow]

4 pieces out 6 of tier has crit/haste
will 4p still be worth going after?
was thinking only getting the cape (crit/mast) and glove (haste/vers)

tier vs offpiece (1st stat is heavier)
helm : crit/haste vs haste/mast
shoulder : haste/crit vs crit/mast
cape : mast/crit vs haste/vers
chest : haste/crit vs mast/vers (winner,1st offtier) vs haste/vers (2nd offtier)
glove : haste/vers vs mast/haste
pants : crit/haste vs haste/mast

nevermind other offpieces besides below 2 arent worth pursuing, will still get 4p regardless, itemization for tier is horrible
offpiece chest (vers/mas) and offpiece leg (haste/mast)

[Shieldarm]

4 pieces out 6 of tier has crit/haste
will 4p still be worth going after?
was thinking only getting the cape (crit/mast) and glove (haste/vers)

tier vs offpiece (1st stat is heavier)
helm : crit/haste vs haste/mast
shoulder : haste/crit vs crit/mast
cape : mast/crit vs haste/vers
chest : haste/crit vs mast/vers (winner,1st offtier) vs haste/vers (2nd offtier)
glove : haste/vers vs mast/haste
pants : crit/haste vs haste/mast

nevermind other offpieces besides below 2 arent worth pursuing, will still get 4p regardless, itemization for tier is horrible
offpiece chest (vers/mas) and offpiece leg (haste/mast)

Between the 20% extra crit block during SB, and the fact it generates 5 rage, that can add up to a monstrous amount of rage gained over the course of a fight. I think it's a nice 4 piece. After that, it depends on whether you're in the Haste>Mast camp or Vers>Mast. If Haste>Mast, you'd do well to use the Helm, Shoulders, Chest, and Gloves. If you prefer the Vers>Mast route, then I'd go Helm, Shoulders, Cloak, and Gloves

[Morgaith]

Christ so i need a vers and mastery set for prot.

Crit/mastery haste/mastery (18% haste, 30% crit and rest pure mastery) set for fury.

Mastery only for arms.

that's only gonna cost 3 million.

[celinamuna]

fwiw haste is still good for making sure you don't die


Higher total damage taken is getting offset by it being more smooth and easier to heal.

[Lysozyme]

To summarise the above results (which do not conflict with Marok's findings):

Vers > Mast > Haste for reducing total damage taken

Haste > Vers > Mast for reducing spikiness

Neither of which are entirely surprising results.

The harder-hitting the boss is relative to your health pool, i.e. the more undergeared you are / the harder the boss is (in terms of tank damage), the better haste is.

I would recommend going for at least some haste if you're planning on doing cutting edge progression. If you aren't, you can safely ignore it, though.

[celinamuna]

To summarise the above results (which do not conflict with Marok's findings):

Vers > Mast > Haste for reducing total damage taken

Haste > Vers > Mast for reducing spikiness

Neither of which are entirely surprising results.

The harder-hitting the boss is relative to your health pool, i.e. the more undergeared you are / the harder the boss is (in terms of tank damage), the better haste is.

I would recommend going for at least some haste if you're planning on doing cutting edge progression. If you aren't, you can safely ignore it, though.

Well a lot of values drastically conflict with values, esp in regarding to str being way overvalued.

[Marok]

Edit: Oops, didn't see that @Lysozyme already said essentially the same thing.

fwiw haste is still good for making sure you don't die


Higher total damage taken is getting offset by it being more smooth and easier to heal.

Yea, of course Haste is going to be better for smoothing. Going off your sims, if you go Haste > Vers > Mast instead of Vers > Mast > Haste, you increase damage taken by ~4%, and increase your "smoothing" by ~4.7%.

This whole Haste vs. Versatility debate comes down to whether you value smoothing or reducing total damage more. Personally, I think people nowadays put too much value on smoothing.

So, for anyone wondering what they should do:

If you value smoothing, prioritize Haste > Vers > Mastery.

If you value reducing damage taken, prioritize Vers > Mastery > Haste.

There's an argument to be made for both, but going off what I see in sims (both SimC and AMR. and no, I'm not just looking at stat weights), I think for overall survivability going Vers > Mast > Haste is better.

[celinamuna]

There's an argument to be made for both, but going off what I see in sims (both SimC and AMR. and no, I'm not just looking at stat weights), I think for overall survivability going Vers > Mast > Haste is better.

Haste is significantly better than mastery for dps, tmi and is only slightly behind for DTPS. I don't see any reason to put mastery over it.

Furthermore those AMR weights are still wrong at multiple points.

[Toybox]

I think I'll be going with the Haste > Vers >= Mastery build, mostly because it's hard to go back to a slower build after picking 8k up haste, but also because I like to contribute as much to DPS as possible... Fingers crossed those Kakushan's drop before the raids, eh?

(Not raiding on the cutting edge, but will clear EN/NH while it's current).

Speaking of which, how much do Kakushan's, if at all, effect the stat priority? Surely the lower CD granted by haste combined with their effect would result in a larger survivability/DPS gain.

[AanvilGT]

Looking at a typical 840 ilvl warrior, they have ~20k str.
1% AP by mastery is 350 mastery : 1 mastery is 0.00285 %AP
1% AP by str is about 200 str : 1 str is ~0.005 %AP
So it scales about to about ~57% of str (point per point)

Mastery also has other properties, but it's worth ~ 57% of str ? So all of the others don't give anything ?
Sounds dank. Can't wait to see someone follow this for gearing.

I think you are forgetting that your AP gains from Strength are going to be around 30% higher because of your mastery.