Protection legion Discussion

[vorpalbladebb]

Are you *sure* there's a reason to use Revenge when you're tanking multiple adds?

Revenge applies deep wounds to all targets it hits. (Thunderclap no longer does this since Blood and thunder was removed). For AOE threat and Damage, you should absolutely be using revenge even if you don't have any talents that buff it.

[golothgor]

so, after catching up on this thread, I'm a little confused -- how important is versatility? at what point is mastery not worth it, if at all? I'm primarily MT raider but I still feel a little squishy in M+s. I recently bumped my mastery 11% after overdoing it a bit with haste, and I've noticed significant DR. however, I pretty much completely disregard versatility for mastery (unless they're together). is there a bare minimum I should have for versa? should I be versa heavy for M+s, while mastery stacking for raiding is pretty much fine?

looking for room to up my overall DR as best I can.

currently at 25% haste which has been fine for most raidin, 44% mastery, 4.4% versatility unbuffed.

[Milocow]

865 grotesque statuette
865 goblet
870 talisman of cragshaper

which 2 should i use? im guessing goblet and statuette but wanna be sure

[Leih]

865 grotesque statuette
865 goblet
870 talisman of cragshaper

which 2 should i use? im guessing goblet and statuette but wanna be sure

Yeah the Cragshaper is pretty weak. The shield is nearly completely insignificant which makes it little more than a versatility stat stick.

[Borcaxe]

Is Chrono shard ilvl 880 good choice? Got it from m+ cache this week, so I wonder. My other options are goblet 865 and 870 Horn of Valor. What you think?

[RodneyStanger]

Just to clarify, Revenge never goes above Devastate in pure survivability output, regardless of mob count. Sure it does a lot of damage, and is good to use on cooldown in M+ to help speeds, but offers very little as far as survivability goes. Proper useage (which will help what one person pointed out about wasted SS procs) is to spam Devastate until SS has one global (1.5 sec) left on its CD, at which point you use Revenge to squeeze that 5 rage (and potential damage) out before using SS again, ensuring you won't waste a Devastate proc.

[Merander]

Does anyone have the current stat weights? I'm still using my Vers/Mastery gear and im at a low 855 ilvl despite having 868 in my bags. I wannt to use MrRobot to figure out what set of gear i should be using.

[Deleted]

A lot of people here will suggest you to use Haste/Mastery. I am myself using a versatility/mastery build (haste around 10%) and always ranking very high in damage taken /healing, outperforming warriors with a higher ilevel.

I know those metrics are not everything that matters, but is a good starting point.

[RodneyStanger]

The issue with having low haste is you really can't keep a decent Shield Block uptime on some longer fights, which is very weak. Also the spec is boring as hell to play without some haste, and with haste being the best mitigation stat ontop of that (as it helps you generate a lot of rage) it's fairly straight forward.

[Lysozyme]

Those metrics are not merely 'not everything that matters', they are basically completely irrelevant. It's like ranking DPS specs by how many times you blinked IRL during the fight, with a lower amount being better.

[kiklion]

Does anyone have the current stat weights? I'm still using my Vers/Mastery gear and im at a low 855 ilvl despite having 868 in my bags. I wannt to use MrRobot to figure out what set of gear i should be using.

You are dropping 13 ilvl s because of stat weights?! And that is your average ilvl, so assuming 13 slots you are missing a combined 169 ilvl s worth of stats. I highly suggest you basically just wear the highest ilvl stuff you have. If it has crit, give it -5 ilvl s, if it is heavy crit, give it -10. If it's jewelry give it -25 with crit. You are missing out on boatloads of stamina and just stats in general.

Eh also ignore ilvl for trinkets. If you have multiple then just ask for specific advice.

[Toybox]

Any thoughts on the best DPS trinkets to use?

I ran with Spiked Counterweight (iLvl 880) for our first Cenarius/Xavius (M) kills (partly for the haste, partly because I don't need defensive trinkets). It did 2.6% of my damage on Cenarius, and 2.8% of my damage on Xavius.

I just ran a 5 min test on a target dummy with a Spontaneous Appendages (iLvl850) & the Counterweight, and the Appendages, despite the 30 iLvl difference, did 5.2% to the Counterweight's 2.7% (which puts it in line with my raiding experience of the trinket).

Seems to me that the Appendages are very much worth it, but I could replace the Counterweight with pretty much anything once I replace some of my more stubborn-to-replace pieces. Thinking an 880+ Goblet would be a pretty nice combo with it...

Edit: I know this doesn't include the DPS gained from the stats on the trinkets themselves.

[Merander]

You are dropping 13 ilvl s because of stat weights?! And that is your average ilvl, so assuming 13 slots you are missing a combined 169 ilvl s worth of stats. I highly suggest you basically just wear the highest ilvl stuff you have. If it has crit, give it -5 ilvl s, if it is heavy crit, give it -10. If it's jewelry give it -25 with crit. You are missing out on boatloads of stamina and just stats in general.

Eh also ignore ilvl for trinkets. If you have multiple then just ask for specific advice.

Ok so i went for your advice and here is what i get in term of stats. I am not happy about these stats tbh i don't see me tanking much with these stats. Any input?

http://imgur.com/a/UWnoM

Also for trinkets i have Alchemist Stone 855, Talisman of the Cragshaper 840, Orb of Torment 840, Writhing Heart of Darkness 845, Gift of Radiance 840, Ember of Nullification 850, Shard of Rhokmora 840, Badge of Victory 840 (Str and Use for Vers 2k) and Natures call 850. Ichor and Statuette are both 865.

[Milocow]

Ok so i went for your advice and here is what i get in term of stats. I am not happy about these stats tbh i don't see me tanking much with these stats. Any input?

http://imgur.com/a/UWnoM

Also for trinkets i have Alchemist Stone 855, Talisman of the Cragshaper 840, Orb of Torment 840, Writhing Heart of Darkness 845, Gift of Radiance 840, Ember of Nullification 850, Shard of Rhokmora 840, Badge of Victory 840 (Str and Use for Vers 2k) and Natures call 850. Ichor and Statuette are both 865.

Ichor is definitely taking one of your slots
Alchemist stone probably taking your 2nd slot
Statuette can also take ur 2nd slot

[Llarold]

Ichor is definitely taking one of your slots
Alchemist stone probably taking your 2nd slot
Statuette can also take ur 2nd slot

Statuette is decent in single-target encounters in which you always have threat on an enemy. Outside of those, Alchemist Stone is going to be a lot stronger.

Offensively, it's no contest: Ichor and Alchemist Stone are way out in front.

- - - Updated - - -

Any thoughts on the best DPS trinkets to use?

I ran with Spiked Counterweight (iLvl 880) for our first Cenarius/Xavius (M) kills (partly for the haste, partly because I don't need defensive trinkets). It did 2.6% of my damage on Cenarius, and 2.8% of my damage on Xavius.

I just ran a 5 min test on a target dummy with a Spontaneous Appendages (iLvl850) & the Counterweight, and the Appendages, despite the 30 iLvl difference, did 5.2% to the Counterweight's 2.7% (which puts it in line with my raiding experience of the trinket).

Seems to me that the Appendages are very much worth it, but I could replace the Counterweight with pretty much anything once I replace some of my more stubborn-to-replace pieces. Thinking an 880+ Goblet would be a pretty nice combo with it...

Edit: I know this doesn't include the DPS gained from the stats on the trinkets themselves.

Not having base Strength is a humongous strike against Spontaneous Appendages, and makes me highly doubt that they are capable of competing with other damage-oriented trinkets like Chrono Shard/Bloodthirsty Instinct or high ilvl Str/Haste (or Str/Crit) stat sticks. 5 minutes on a training dummy is an incredibly small sample size, hence why theorycrafters use sims with thousands of iterations to determine which trinkets are superior. Unfortunately, Prot Warrior sims are still currently broken.

Also, does Counterweight's damage in your testing include the increased damage it contributes, or only the damage from its initial proc?

- - - Updated - - -

With the new stat priority in mind, are the Saber's Eye gems even worth socketing with Strength being that far down on the list?

For damage, yes. For defense, no.

[Deleted]

Is it worth to change 3 weapon ilevels and 2% armor for a shatter the bones relic?

Also at what ilevel gap should I just ignore the bonus trait and change (I have some 880ilvl relics with horrid traits like intolerance)

[kiklion]

Ok so i went for your advice and here is what i get in term of stats. I am not happy about these stats tbh i don't see me tanking much with these stats. Any input?

http://imgur.com/a/UWnoM

Also for trinkets i have Alchemist Stone 855, Talisman of the Cragshaper 840, Orb of Torment 840, Writhing Heart of Darkness 845, Gift of Radiance 840, Ember of Nullification 850, Shard of Rhokmora 840, Badge of Victory 840 (Str and Use for Vers 2k) and Natures call 850. Ichor and Statuette are both 865.

I third the other opinions on trinkets. Definitely ichor then arch/grotesque depending on fight.

As for your stats, it's hard to compare without a 'before' image. Yes your crit is high and haste is low but what happened to your stam and AP? What values did you have before to sacrifice for that?

[Deleted]

I realise this is the same question everyone is asking, but hey, "if you can't beat um join um".

The trinkets I have are

890 Ravaged Seed Pod
875 Grotesque Statuette (don't use this because my DH co-tank does)
870 Chronoshard
870 Goblet of Nightmarish Ichor
855 Darkmoon Card: Immortality
855 Infernal Alchemist Stone
805 Valor Medal of the First War

I have literally no clue what to use. I've been using Chronoshard and Seed Pod in M+ for the DPS gains (mostly the boatload of haste rather than the very mediocre use ability), but on Ursoc M and the later Mythic bosses I want to maximise survivability. I *think* I should be using Goblet and DMC, but Chronoshard feels pretty strong. I really hope I shouldn't be using First War, the ilevel on it is a pretty big feelsbad, even if its so good.

[Milocow]

bosses that rape your butt like M ursoc ; dmc and statuette

[Merander]

I third the other opinions on trinkets. Definitely ichor then arch/grotesque depending on fight.

As for your stats, it's hard to compare without a 'before' image. Yes your crit is high and haste is low but what happened to your stam and AP? What values did you have before to sacrifice for that?

That's good advice here is a picture of my 2 sets one for Haste/Mastery and one for Vers/Mastery when i put on my ILVL set i get around 400k of hp

http://imgur.com/a/68Ymr