Arms Legion Discussion

[Shieldarm]

I can only assume it has that same 5 limit. Mainly, because of its wording. It says increases by an "additional 2/4/6%" instead, of just flat increase by 6%. That additional to me, is just saying "Your cleave buff gets stronger"

[shyguybman]

Most recent one : http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...o/raid_00.html

The previous iteration had us just below Feral and that was the one I based myself on.

How the hell can blizzard make such variances in specs when they said they want them all to be close, that's almost a 100K diff between arms/fury

[Sinnthetic]

Assuming Blizzard nerfs Hamstring (probably?) whether they make it not affect AM, or it does no damage, will the FR build still remain very ahead of the other builds / Fury?

[ReD-EyeD]

Assuming Blizzard nerfs Hamstring (probably?) whether they make it not affect AM, or it does no damage, will the FR build still remain very ahead of the other builds / Fury?

Yes, Hamstring gives much less damage bonus than Arms vs Fury difference.

Latest sim build:
Warrior_Arms_T19M : 474728 dps (with Hamstring)
Warrior_Arms_T19M : 466852 dps (without Hamstring)

But I honestly suggest you choosing the build you like the most. Blizzard can change everything however they want and whenever they want.

[Rafalga]

Assuming Blizzard nerfs Hamstring (probably?) whether they make it not affect AM, or it does no damage, will the FR build still remain very ahead of the other builds / Fury?

this is a very common misconception among some players who thinks FR's power somehow comes from the hamstring spamming due to some abused or broken mechanic. Even if you remove hamstring completely it just around %2-3 dps loss overall. So no it doesn't affect the spec at all.

I know its unbelievable for some to see Arms starting ahead since we were always scraping the bottom of the barrel. We are as shocked as you

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Yeah so when you cleave you get stacks of a buff for 6 secs based on the number of targets hit, with nonzero haste you can use it on single target multiple times and refresh the buff and increase stacks before it falls off, this would ever be worth doing but it allows you to confirm the the stack limit of 5.

even if you have a CD shorter then the duration you are still hitting one target. Buff will not add up, it just gonna get renewed.

[Wulfey]

I have been playing arms for years. I love arms. But I have this bad feeling they are going to nerf the crap about FR and leave arms rotting behind more survivable melee specs. Arms has been OP at expac launches before, but then shut down again and again.

[Staubz]

well i thought it was all about proccing tactician and helping BC comes up faster with AM.. is it really not that important? well that does make FR less awful to play IMO

and yea knowing blizzard they can say whatever they want, their past actions are always louder.. if its not a big nerf it will be nerfed anyway.. highly doubt they will just buff fury and other specs to make up for it.. but then again there are 2 more weeks to go so you never know..

also is the tank trinket and caster potion really the way to go?

[Deleted]

Well it is easier to just be sheep and blindly follow somebody else instead of looking at the differences and thinking/asking/discussing what the pros/cons of each trait are


Unless I'm missing something then:

Single Target: Deathblow wins
2 Targets: One Against Many probably wins, unless you have legendary execute ring and sweeping strikes talented then Deathblow could be better
3+ targets: Void Cleave wins

They are all pretty minor though, the first 16/20 traits have a massive impact and the ones after those are puny in comparison. I'll probably go for VC just because it's a golden trait

I've been following the discussions on the forum since Legion was announced. Don't come here and tell me that I'm just blindly following a random picture when the pros/cons of each trait have been discussed a number of times and tested by the theorycrafters on this forum.

[Rhyzoh]

even if you have a CD shorter then the duration you are still hitting one target. Buff will not add up, it just gonna get renewed.

What is this based on? I literally just did it on beta a minute before posting that

[Archimtiros]

Now you know why most people dont take icy veins seriously. ITFK is 170k dps behind FR.

Because it was written for pre-patch in which *IFTK was ahead. It was updated today for Legion and details FR.

[Millie]

Now you know why most people dont take icy veins seriously. ITFK is 170k dps behind FR.

Maybe people would stop taking Icy-Veins seriously if they stopped making claims that good players approve their guides. Directly from their Warrior guide.

"This guide has been reviewed and approved by Archimitros, one of the best DPS Warriors in the world, who raids in Infinity. You can follow him on Twitter."

If Arch is so trustworthy here, why the fuck is the guide he allegedly approved not?

[thefatty01]

I've put almost zero preparation/thought into leveling..what is it about the class campaign that makes it favorable to do Storm->Highmtn?

Your quest at 101 sends you to Stormhiem, and then again to Highmountain. In beta I first went to Azsuna, and then I had to run across the zones to Stormheim to do my class quest.

[Wulfey]

Maybe people would stop taking Icy-Veins seriously if they stopped making claims that good players approve their guides. Directly from their Warrior guide.

"This guide has been reviewed and approved by Archimitros, one of the best DPS Warriors in the world, who raids in Infinity. You can follow him on Twitter."

If Arch is so trustworthy here, why the fuck is the guide he allegedly approved not?

Approved when? At what patch? FR wasn't so dominant a few months ago.

[Okacz]

Yes, Hamstring gives much less damage bonus than Arms vs Fury difference.

Latest sim build:
Warrior_Arms_T19M : 474728 dps (with Hamstring)
Warrior_Arms_T19M : 466852 dps (without Hamstring)

But I honestly suggest you choosing the build you like the most. Blizzard can change everything however they want and whenever they want.

That's like 2% dps difference. For most players not worth sneezing at, only for the "best of the best" is it worth something.

Blizzard should probably leave it as it is. It's a little trick most won't care about, and 90% of those who do won't bother using. The rest would have a nice reward for their dedication, why not.

[thefatty01]

That's like 2% dps difference. For most players not worth sneezing at, only for the "best of the best" is it worth something.

Blizzard should probably leave it as it is. It's a little trick most won't care about, and 90% of those who do won't bother using. The rest would have a nice reward for their dedication, why not.

It's hard to keep track of all the changes... So Hamstring currently DOESN'T proc Opportunity Strikes nor Anger Management (because DC doesn't affect AM). But it still procs tactician... correct?

[Anuibus]

It's hard to keep track of all the changes... So Hamstring currently DOESN'T proc Opportunity Strikes nor Anger Management (because DC doesn't affect AM). But it still procs tactician... correct?

yes, it still procs tactician.

[orgonutil]

That's like 2% dps difference. For most players not worth sneezing at, only for the "best of the best" is it worth something.

Blizzard should probably leave it as it is. It's a little trick most won't care about, and 90% of those who do won't bother using. The rest would have a nice reward for their dedication, why not.

create a separate macro with FR + hamstring and set to mouse wheel up and have only FR alone in mouse weel up isnot what i call "dedication"

[Archimtiros]

Maybe people would stop taking Icy-Veins seriously if they stopped making claims that good players approve their guides. Directly from their Warrior guide.

"This guide has been reviewed and approved by Archimitros, one of the best DPS Warriors in the world, who raids in Infinity. You can follow him on Twitter."

If Arch is so trustworthy here, why the fuck is the guide he allegedly approved not?

I don't understand your question.

I did approve the guide, and it is a good guide. It's damn near a mirror of the one I wrote directly for WoWhead. The only difference is that I just give IV the info rather than writing it directly and they change some of the wording. Occasionally this means information is misinterpreted, or simply slower to update, but that's pretty rare.

The guide was just updated today for Legion. Every idiot saying it's not right because it doesn't say FR is the best is just that, an idiot, because they fail to realize that FR is only any good during Legion and prior to today the guide was written for pre-patch.

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That's like 2% dps difference. For most players not worth sneezing at, only for the "best of the best" is it worth something.

Blizzard should probably leave it as it is. It's a little trick most won't care about, and 90% of those who do won't bother using. The rest would have a nice reward for their dedication, why not.

They shouldn't leave it how it is because it's unintended gameplay. That's like saying "jumping should be a dps increase, because if people want to jump, why shouldn't they be rewarded for it?".

The issue is that using Hamstring has absolutely no downside; since it's used during DC, it's free and off the GCD separate from Focused Rage. Minor or not, it's a completely extra performance increase which isn't meant to be part of the rotation. That's the definition of broken gameplay.

[thefatty01]

I like jumping.

[Staubz]

ok i dont know why i but i thought it was a direct spam during the whole rotation to help proc more tactician rather than just "abuse" it during BC.. yea that makes FR less bad i still dont like this stacking a buff to improve another spell and also colossus smash gameplay but once all is done and said i will definitely try it out more, again i think i can manage to bring arms weapon to 19 before mythic raids