Arms Legion Discussion

[Creatinebrah]

It's like that in PVP now, considerably lower. They have to be careful nerfing FR Arms if they do, right now it's not one of the strongest all round specs because other classes can match/beat it on single target while also having very strong MT damage. The burst cleave on FR is great with SS but it can't sustain that properly outside of cooldowns and suffers hard on single target for it, and you have to play other builds for AOE really because FR has none.

And then all Fury has is AOE, which is not as dominant as other classes. We would have nothing left, FR Arms having single target is the only reason to really take a Warrior to a raid for progression at the moment. Fury is not needed because everything it does can be done better by another class that has better survival and needs less healing.

those classes are which ones?

[Saiona]

What so everyone wants FR nerfed to the ground even though fury wins in cleave. All we have is single target and decent cleave during BC if we get nerfed before raid I'll be pissed

[Chingylol]

Would the Draenor 100 mastery/10% movement speed cloak enchant be better the the new 150 str cloak enchant for arms? If Mastery is worth about 1.3 per point vs Str?

[ReD-EyeD]

Another thing to consider is that in a boss fight avatar will be up duing ur prepot and 2nd pot

Yes, but then it will be just on the same level then.

I just found that no simcrafts took +15% WW damage by default, but they all have +15% Slam from an artifact traits. This might be a reason of difference in sims.

How is FoB+traits actually calculated? Is it (100*1.15)*1.3 or 100*1.45?

[Deleted]

Yes, but then it will be just on the same level then.

I just found that no simcrafts took +15% WW damage by default, but they all have +15% Slam from an artifact traits. This might be a reason of difference in sims.

How is FoB+traits actually calculated? Is it (100*1.15)*1.3 or 100*1.45?

DPS Warrior F.A.Q.

Don't know about simcraft though.

[Deleted]

Those kind of thoughts are what brought homogenization in the first place. Now you might think it's a good thing, but I personally don't. All talents can't be closed with each other, nor should they IMO. As long as they are all useful in their niche (which is kinda the case for Arms), it's perfectly fine. Sure for pure ST you have one build that is optimal, but that will always happen, no matter what. I'd rather have them design interesting talents that can be useful depending on the situation, instead of boring ones that all compete which other, but one ends up being better than the other two anyway and everyone will play it.

EDIT: Not saying the gap between our options shouldn't be lowered though. IIRC the difference between the FR build and the other one is nearly 100k in ST which is way too much I agree.

What people have to understand is that specs are already homogeneized in their roles. A melee DPS will do melee DPS no matter the spec, a ranged DPS will do ranged DPS no matter the spec, a tank will tank no matter the spec and a healer will heal no matter the spec.

The only differences between talents and spec cannot be that one do terrible DPS and the other is stellar. Most choice of talents are, currently, QoL choices to provide variety in classes rotation (or to try to alter the DPS profile of one spec, as one spec can have a steady DPS or a very spiky one).

Currently, with arm warrior, FR is the only viable choice. When you don't take it then it is very likely that your DPS will be terrible.

[thefatty01]

What people have to understand is that specs are already homogeneized in their roles. A melee DPS will do melee DPS no matter the spec, a ranged DPS will do ranged DPS no matter the spec, a tank will tank no matter the spec and a healer will heal no matter the spec.

The only differences between talents and spec cannot be that one do terrible DPS and the other is stellar. Most choice of talents are, currently, QoL choices to provide variety in classes rotation (or to try to alter the DPS profile of one spec, as one spec can have a steady DPS or a very spiky one).

Currently, with arm warrior, FR is the only viable choice. When you don't take it then it is very likely that your DPS will be terrible.

But how many other classes have different ways of talenting within the same spec that are competitive? The dps sims shows shadow priests with Surrender to Madness or not, and S2M is top and not is bottom.

[Deleted]

But how many other classes have different ways of talenting within the same spec that are competitive? The dps sims shows shadow priests with Surrender to Madness or not, and S2M is top and not is bottom.

The fact that the talent design sux for some specs isn't a justification for that sloppy design.

[thefatty01]

The fact that the talent design sux for some specs isn't a justification for that sloppy design.

And you cant be top of the charts at everything. If you wanna do amazing single target, go FR. If you wanna do decent AoE and ST go Fury. Just because were not number 1 on everything doesnt mean that they need to rework teh talents around.

Also, Rend and Titanic Might being the only talents not used in the entire tree is pretty good design.

[globezorz]

And you cant be top of the charts at everything. If you wanna do amazing single target, go FR. If you wanna do decent AoE and ST go Fury. Just because were not number 1 on everything doesnt mean that they need to rework teh talents around.

Also, Rend and Titanic Might being the only talents not used in the entire tree is pretty good design.

In what world are TM and Rend the only talents not used? If you like FR that's fine, but don't say we're using all our talents when we're not. We use 1 build for 1 rotation, the whole point of this expansion was to have roughly equally balanced classes with talent choices that are roughly equal which either change your rotation or change with the number of targets. Arms does NOT have that, we have 1 build that's an INSANE amount above anything else. I haven't read a single post asking us to top the charts of everything, people are asking for the talents to be brought closer together in terms of value which is totally fair in our current state. For you to say "if you want to perform well, change specs" is a joke, that's not the way this expansion should work. We don't have to be number 1, but every spec should be able to perform "well" in every situation, but arms can't. So we're 0/2 in things they should have delivered on.

The design of our talent tree is fine, but the numbers and tuning are not. If anyone can't see that they're blinded by the thrill of being number 1 on damage meters right which will undoubtedly be taken away soon enough.

[thefatty01]

In what world are TM and Rend the only talents not used? If you like FR that's fine, but don't say we're using all our talents when we're not. We use 1 build for 1 rotation, the whole point of this expansion was to have roughly equally balanced classes with talent choices that are roughly equal which either change your rotation or change with the number of targets. Arms does NOT have that, we have 1 build that's an INSANE amount above anything else. I haven't read a single post asking us to top the charts of everything, people are asking for the talents to be brought closer together in terms of value which is totally fair in our current state. For you to say "if you want to perform well, change specs" is a joke, that's not the way this expansion should work. We don't have to be number 1, but every spec should be able to perform "well" in every situation, but arms can't. So we're 0/2 in things they should have delivered on.

The design of our talent tree is fine, but the numbers and tuning are not. If anyone can't see that they're blinded by the thrill of being number 1 on damage meters right which will undoubtedly be taken away soon enough.

Didn't we just say every talent has their niche, and that no matter what they do with talents there will always be the one setup thats better. What talents are you referring to that aren't being used?

[globezorz]

Didn't we just say every talent has their niche, and that no matter what they do with talents there will always be the one setup thats better. What talents are you referring to that aren't being used?

LOL we aren't using ANY of our talents. No ones using Trauma, OP, OpS, FoB. We have ONE talent setup. My point isnt that FR is better, its that its MILES better. What dont you get? Yes, one setup will always be best, but it shouldnt be 40% better.

[thefatty01]

LOL we aren't using ANY of our talents. No ones using Trauma, OP, OpS, FoB. We have ONE talent setup. My point isnt that FR is better, its that its MILES better. What dont you get? Yes, one setup will always be best, but it shouldnt be 40% better.

People use the IftK setup, which uses OpS. OP is on equal group with Dauntless last time I heard, and its really useful in PvP. And FoB with Trauma is really useful in AoE situations. And I keep saying that every single spec and class has a set way of talenting, and doing anything other than that will usually give bad results.

The point im trying to get at is that we shouldnt expect blizzard to hand us this perfect talent tree where you can take whatever you want and still be within 1% of optimal.

[Rhyzoh]

I don't see how FR vs not FR could by anyone's judgment be considered balanced. Because it's not and we recognize this.. the only real choices we have are in the first 4 rows of talents, the last 3 are fixed

Did Blizzard fail and will things be nerfed/buffed? Of course

Will FR still be the better build afterwords? Probably it's just so far ahead that the changes would have to be massive for it not to be

[globezorz]

People use the IftK setup, which uses OpS. OP is on equal group with Dauntless last time I heard, and its really useful in PvP. And FoB with Trauma is really useful in AoE situations. And I keep saying that every single spec and class has a set way of talenting, and doing anything other than that will usually give bad results.

The point im trying to get at is that we shouldnt expect blizzard to hand us this perfect talent tree where you can take whatever you want and still be within 1% of optimal.

I guess you just don't understand what I'm saying, or you are blinded by numbers like I thought. I never said within 1% of optimal, if you read anything I posted you'd see I said within 15% of each other which is totally reasonable. But you obviously either don't understand reason, or don't understand the numbers if you think we have multiple builds that are good, or that most of the talents are being used. But I'm done with this conversation.

[thefatty01]

I don't see how FR vs not FR could by anyone's judgment be considered balanced. Because it's not and we recognize this.. the only real choices we have are in the first 4 rows of talents, the last 3 are fixed

Did Blizzard fail and will things be nerfed/buffed? Of course

Will FR still be the better build afterwords? Probably it's just so far ahead that the changes would have to be massive for it not to be

First thing I think of when I try to compare it is Surrender to Madness for priests. But FR is more complicated because you have to use DC/AM for it to work, and its because it fits in with how arms is designed so well.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess you just don't understand what I'm saying, or you are blinded by numbers like I thought. I never said within 1% of optimal, if you read anything I posted you'd see I said within 15% of each other which is totally reasonable. But you obviously either don't understand reason, or don't understand the numbers if you think we have multiple builds that are good, or that most of the talents are being used. But I'm done with this conversation.

So you're saying that IftK is completely unviable and will never be used? And I keep saying, but you refuse to acknowledge it, that no class has multiple talent options within a spec. IDGAF about the numbers. I just think that all the people who are bitching about FR being way too good and theres no other option need to realize that there are options, and even if there weren't its not like thats any different than its ever been. When was the last time warriors have been able to choose whatever talents they want and been "within 15%"? And you also fail to acknoweldge that I gave a reason to use every talent we have. It sounds to me liek youre being blinded by the numbers, because you keep saying that we have no other options but FR.

[Anuibus]

So you're saying that IftK is completely unviable and will never be used? And I keep saying, but you refuse to acknowledge it, that no class has multiple talent options within a spec. IDGAF about the numbers. I just think that all the people who are bitching about FR being way too good and theres no other option need to realize that there are options, and even if there weren't its not like thats any different than its ever been. When was the last time warriors have been able to choose whatever talents they want and been "within 15%"? And you also fail to acknoweldge that I gave a reason to use every talent we have. It sounds to me liek youre being blinded by the numbers, because you keep saying that we have no other options but FR.

the only reason to take something other than fr is for pvp/questing, where you could take mortal combo. iftk is never going to be viable as long as it remains 30% behind.

[Valkaneer]

I guess you just don't understand what I'm saying, or you are blinded by numbers like I thought. I never said within 1% of optimal, if you read anything I posted you'd see I said within 15% of each other which is totally reasonable. But you obviously either don't understand reason, or don't understand the numbers if you think we have multiple builds that are good, or that most of the talents are being used. But I'm done with this conversation.

How do you call 15% reasonable? One spec doing 15% less is not reasonable IMO. Of coarse you are talking about your opinion, and mine. You are also trying to corner the market on what is reasonable and what is not. I highly doubt your "The Voice of Reason".


FR is not even within 15% its 60 - 65% more than any other spec. At 200k your talking about one spec doing 30k more than the others. Your talking about 12 million damage difference over a 400 sec fight. 5% is a lot more of what I think they should be shooting for and what is I think is reasonable and for the most not that difficult to obtain.

[Wulfey]

the only reason to take something other than fr is for pvp/questing, where you could take mortal combo. iftk is never going to be viable as long as it remains 30% behind.

When will ITFK ever be good? It gives you some extra rage during execute phase, whoooopiedidoo. Execute phase tends to be short and I always have some kind of debuff or something that screws it up. Even if it gave twice the rage it still would suck because of that giant limitation.

[Valkaneer]

So In your opinion within 15% is just fine. So lets say Blizzard nerfs FR to be 15% less than the standard build. I guess you will be happy with that?

Edit: Well here is where I would say if blizzard nerf FR to be 15% less it would be BS and uncalled for. I would then see about 99% of players agree with me. Sunddely I am the reasonable one.