Arms Legion Discussion

[allergisch]

you said blade storm animation got updated.... on your forum post Archi.... any chance of dropping a gif???

cant post links yet.

[Teaon]

ok this is cool bladestorm animation, way more better than the last flying swords

[feellucky]

Tab Rending shouldn't exist as a concept to be fair, it's counterintuitive to the class. Rend spread via Thunder Clap was a great concept, but such ideas lead to the devaluing of something since it's given way more power than it should have, see Heroic Strike and Second Wind in early MoP.

Anyway, to the point,
Rend, back in the days, was used for a number of things.

In TBC it was used for an on-demand Blood Frenzy, when Warriors alone had the 4% melee damage increase on the target raidwide, you either got it via a crit and thus Deep Wounds, or via Rend if rng wasn't in your favor, especially at the pull.

In Wrath and Cata the whole rotation revolved around Rend ticks and Overpower. And by the way, and I repeated this ad nauseam, Overpower to me is as iconic as MS for Arms and see it as a talent alongside with Rend pisses me off to no end.
Not to mention Heroic Strike, but no matter.

It's not really that pressing Rend wasn't satisfying, it's that pressing Rend at the right time was rewarding, and not the "have some not so significative damage as a reward" rewarding, but it had the means to deepen one's game. It gave the player control, it was a button that had a number of scenarios in which it could be used.

Same shit happened to a number of classes, namely Priests who in Draenor lost a whole bunch of stuff for no reason at all, and this by extension led to the dumbing down of the game as a whole, because the control has been taken out of the player, and let's not kid ourselves: this whole class fantasy trumpeting is a steaming pile of bull, players make the class fantasy, the userbase does. But cannot.

I agree, played arms since vanilla. MS and Overpower have been the most iconic abilities for arms overall. Hate playing the spec without it.

[Archimtiros]

you said blade storm animation got updated.... on your forum post Archi.... any chance of dropping a pic???

Posted in a couple threads already:

[Ryuku]

oh baby that looks beautiful

- - - Updated - - -

i have a strange feeling that our set bonuses will be the only thing that addresses slam spam I really hope I am not right. Adding MS and OP to tactician could make a huge difference. As for Execute phase.... I think as long as there is something in there that is free or that reduces the cost... then In for the kill will always be mandatory

Regardless I still feel like the talents could have bit of a shuffle around

Mortal combo / Overpower / Rend
Shockwave / Storm Bolt / Double Time
Fervour of Battle / Sweeping Strikes (live version) / Bladestorm
Second Wind / Bounding Stride / Die by the Sword
In for the kill / Dauntless / Titanic Might
Focus Rage / Trauma / Avatar
Anger Management / Opportunity Strikes / Ravager

/shrug

[Caargon]

I dunno man, maybe you just have more crit or something but I am definitely feeling that lack of rage. It's nothing like WoD arms in early tiers, not even close, but you can starve out if you had bad luck. Both with auto attack crits or CS resets.

Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. What kind of crit do the 110 warriors have starting out?

Don't forget they nerfed the echo damage to only 20% as well. In addition to Shattered Defenses nerf.

Huh, so they did. Corrupted blood down to 20% of the damage over 6 seconds, Shattered Defenses down to 30% extra damage and crit chance. Honestly, I'm not surprised about that. Those two were among of the strongest traits on any artifact out there and could potentially take a burst to ludicrous levels.

i have a strange feeling that our set bonuses will be the only thing that addresses slam spam

I'm also starting to worry about this. If you fill every relic slot with +ETW you can get 25-27% tactician chance on slam only. Whirlwind of course with 3 seperate chances to proc per use and its intended environment of multiple targets doesn't worry me so much, but how well does execute work under those conditions?

PS new bladestorm animation is A+, full marks, ten points for Gryffindor.

Does whirlwind give 3 separate chances to proc tactician per use on a single target, since it hits 3 times?

[caervek]

You fail to recognize the flipside of the argument in that some players want things to be less complicated, and not having the options drives them off.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but this reply is phrased like it's disagreeing with me, yet the content actually agrees with what I said :S

[Aceveda]

Meh, I prefer Bladestorm with a red trail :/

[Warriorsarri]

Does whirlwind give 3 separate chances to proc tactician per use on a single target, since it hits 3 times?

Yes, yes it does.

[Caargon]

Yes, yes it does.

Which puts it just barely behind slam even on a single target for tactician, unless I screwed up my math. No lie, that's pretty funny. Cleave fights are gonna be fabulous.

Speaking of slam, I think I'm ok with the updated trauma. It still suffers for clarity a bit, but after looking at how close WW is on single target with the new traits, sure, fair enough. Now make "focused rage" worth taking and We'll call it even.

[Ryuku]

i really worried how many artefact traits this patch buff up WW... i really hope it never gets to the point where its better than slam...

3 procs Vs 1
25 rage vs 15 rage
3x80% so 240% weapon damage minus the buffs vs 225% weapon damage

Can you see what I'm getting at here

[Deleted]

Which puts it just barely behind slam even on a single target for tactician, unless I screwed up my math. No lie, that's pretty funny. Cleave fights are gonna be fabulous.

Speaking of slam, I think I'm ok with the updated trauma. It still suffers for clarity a bit, but after looking at how close WW is on single target with the new traits, sure, fair enough. Now make "focused rage" worth taking and We'll call it even.

I doubt it´s intended. At some point they will surely make it proc only once per target.

[Caargon]

i really worried how many artefact traits this patch buff up WW... i really hope it never gets to the point where its better than slam...

3 procs Vs 1
25 rage vs 15 rage
3x80% so 240% weapon damage minus the buffs vs 225% weapon damage

Can you see what I'm getting at here

Probability's a weak point for me but as I can figure, slam still wins for single target, for sure if you have trauma (and we will all take trauma right now.)

By my napkin math, with a single whirlwind you've got a 39% chance that one of your 3 hits will reset CS. Two slams at 30 rage shows 38% chance one of them will reset CS, assuming all base artifact traits (no relics.) Slotting for Exploit the Weakness slides that heavily in favor of slam, and slam absolutely kills whirlwind on single target damage for rage cost, except during battlecry when WW is guaranteed to refund 15 rage. WW wins easily though, the instant you add a second target.

New Will of the First King would be much nicer if it refunded some rage for ALL critical abilities, not just whirlwind. Better balance too. Whirlwind pulling ahead of slam for single target during BC is pretty strange.

Also I now find myself thinking it would be pretty neat if Wrecking Ball was available to arms, because fervor of battle isn't very exciting.

I doubt it´s intended. At some point they will surely make it proc only once per target.

It would be very much worth asking on the alpha forums if the "3 bites at the apple per use" is intended or not.

[Tyze]

Wonder which stats will be the best for Arms and Fury.

Did they remove the passive abilities that gives 5% stat from all sources? Can't seem to find on Legion talent calculator

[Ferozan]

Arms current state makes me wonder what were the ideals behind the original pruning. It is has too many abilities that do not have sinergy with the spec's flow.

Slam is a really efficient button because of Tactician. Add Trauma to it and it becomes a button that is too good to not be prioritized, even during sub-20% phases.

Mortal Strike not resetting CS makes it lose a ton of value. We can agree that, if they don't want it to generate rage baseline, it should be at least free.

Overpower existing on it's current state makes zero sense. It should cost zero rage OR have the same chance of slam to reset CS.

Rend, as someone stated on some pages back, is a bland talent. Yes, it interacts with CS, but all of our skills do so. It has nothing special about it. Rend only exists because it is the best DPR and best DPGCD of our current spec.

Colossus smash also has some design problems. You use CS to buff your damage, but Slam/WW/Execute have a chance to reset it's CD. So, if we overwrite the debuff, we lose CS uptime. If we don't, we lose potential resets, including utilizing traits like Shattered Defenses (+30%dmg +30% crit on next MS/Execute after CSing) and Precise Strikes (-15% rage cost per trait point on next MS/Execute after CSing) optimally. CS could use a charge system, IMO. It could be the target for Mortal Combo, since MS has lost a ton of value.

Execute. It is time to execute's variable rage cost to go. It has been proved they do not know how to make it work.
Execute's bonus rage damage is not affected by Dauntless and also is not affected by Precise Strikes. As we saw, it also was not affected by the free rage Recklessness, simply because it is bad coded.
Execute should simply have a fixed rage value cost. That would make it be affected by every single trait/talent/set bonus that affects rage costs as well.
Execute phases are completely unusable if you do not talent In for the Kill, which is also dumb.
Sum the fact that we won't see many resets on CS if we do not use Slam during sub-20% phases.

Heroic Strike/Focused Rage shouldn't exist for arms at all. Even factoring Shattered Defenses, it won't be used, because we will be spending rage to reset CS on slams/WWs.

Tactician, in my opinion, should have double reset chance on Execute, if they want the spec to stay like it is right now.

It is really sad to see fury becoming actually really good looking for the expansion, while arms is being somewhat garbage, imo.

[Artunias]

Yeah Arms is pretty shit right now. I don't like it at all. That first version was so good, and now they deliver piss and shit. Sad days.

[Archimtiros]

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but this reply is phrased like it's disagreeing with me, yet the content actually agrees with what I said :S

Wasn't arguing with you, it was a continuation of the conversation in which posters were both arguing for and against talents that made things "easy".

- - - Updated - - -

Also I now find myself thinking it would be pretty neat if Wrecking Ball was available to arms, because fervor of battle isn't very exciting.

It's called Overpower.

Different abilities, I know, but the point was to make two similarly functional abilities with their own theme. Fury uses WB because it really didn't need another keybind, Arms uses Overpower because it's short on rotational binds already.

It would be very much worth asking on the alpha forums if the "3 bites at the apple per use" is intended or not.

I've brought it up every build since the start of the Alpha, though I actually think they might have fixed it already. Hard to tell without doing significantly longer tests for more conclusive results.

[Ferozan]

Just to be added, after checking combat logs, execute is a negative energization on Rage directly.

It appears as "Your Execute energizes you for -30 rage"

That's what i call a guetto fix to variable costs, will test to see if Maelstrom Variable spells on Enhance/Elemental also work like this, which is completely dumb.

EDIT: Apparently Execute is the only variable energy cost spell in the game that uses this negative energization method of depleting rage.
Elemental's Earth Shocks (10 to 100 Maelstrom) and Enhancement Healing Surge (0 to 25) work as intended without needing this kinda "bypass". I wonder if execute always worked like this, even factoring the older 100 rage executes variable as well.

[Archimtiros]

Just to be added, after checking combat logs, execute is a negative energization on Rage directly.

It appears as "Your Execute energizes you for -30 rage"

That's what i call a guetto fix to variable costs, will test to see if Maelstrom Variable spells on Enhance/Elemental also work like this, which is completely dumb.

EDIT: Apparently Execute is the only variable energy cost spell in the game that uses this negative energization method of depleting rage.
Elemental's Earth Shocks (10 to 100 Maelstrom) and Enhancement Healing Surge (0 to 25) work as intended without needing this kinda "bypass". I wonder if execute always worked like this, even factoring the older 100 rage executes variable as well.

I noted that a few months ago as well, but it's actually worked that way for a long time, it just didn't output that way to the combat log until recently.

[Borgia]

Nothing about Arms mobility in the latest build, while the amount of mobility protection can get is ridiculously high, plus they gave it back recklesness and berserker rage.