Arms Legion Discussion

[Bigbazz]

So it's

Bring the class, spec, legendary and player... Or enjoy the bench. Someone on the EU Alpha forums suggested it's not a problem because you can simply divide your artifact power between 2-3 artifacts to take advantage of the cheaper first points cost... I don't see how that doesn't just make things worse, then you have 2 mildly useless specs instead of one potential weak spec and another absolutely useless one.

For arms, every bit artifact power that is not going towards shattered defenses/corrupted blood is a tragedy.

[Khelon]

Is anyone worried about the interaction between Anger Management and the new legendary wrists Manacles of Mannoroth, the Flayer?

(legendary ring) Mortal Strike now generates 10 Rage, instead of costing Rage.
(Anger Management talent) Every 10 Rage you spend reduces the remaining cooldown of Battle Cry by 1 second.

It almost feels like the legendary wrist should read "generates 30 Rage" and remove the the "instead of costing Rage" bit. Battle Cry looks like it'll play a huge damage role now and has a lot of synergy when it comes to both our T19 set and the artifact passive, Corrupted Blood of Zakajz.

Battle Cry - Lets loose a battle cry, granting 100% increased critical strike chance for 5 sec.

Corrupted Blood of Zakajz - For 5 sec after activating Battle Cry, Strom'kar radiates shadowy energy, causing all your attacks to deal an additional 20% damage as Shadow over 6 sec.

(T18 set bonus)
2P Bonus - Increases the duration of Battle Cry by 3 sec.
4P Bonus - Slam, Whirlwind, and Execute critical strike have a 20% additional chance per target hit to reset the cooldown on Colossus Smash.

The other weird thing looking at the 2p bonus is how it doesn't really synergize well with Corrupted Blood of Zakajz. I wish the passive read "while Battle Cry is active" instead of "for 5 sec after activating Battle Cry".

They dont have to change the way the item works, they just have to make AM work properly with it.

Sudden death procs in wod count as 30(10 for arms) rage and still cuts off 1(1/3) sec. So when you equip this item, they just have to make sure that mortal strike will always reduce battlecry's cooldown by 2 sec.

[Celarent]

Blizzard are already forecasting that you will not fully unlock your Artifact in time for Mythic progression, let alone two of them. And without the artifact talents the specs are as good as useless.

Unless they allow us to offload all our artifact power into a different artifact we will be stuck with what we have. It could go either way, we could find the best spec and go with it only to be nerfed, or we could have a Fury at the start of WOD situation where we're praying daily for a buff before raiding hits.

I understand how Blizzard wouldn't want to lose player time investment if it didn't have to, but with every other related feature in the game moved in the direction of flexibility — primary stats on gear, specs, talents and so on — artifact commitment is out of step.

Like, Titanicesque collision course with "We're happy with"-"We're looking into"-"We're adjusting"-"We acknowledge players didn't like." Come on, Blizz: save the extra work for a stable of alts.

It DESPERATELY needs something

Maybe we're going about this the wrong way.

Can someone fake a convincing imba situation with Slam-spam? They'll fix it in a second.

[Warriorsarri]

The answer is simple. Don't spend any artifact power in your artifacts until Mythic raids have been released, then check which spec got buffed/nerfed and chose the one which is the best. I totally don't see any issues whatsoever with this!

[Bigbazz]

The answer is simple. Don't spend any artifact power in your artifacts until Mythic raids have been released, then check which spec got buffed/nerfed and chose the one which is the best. I totally don't see any issues whatsoever with this!

Not spending any artifact points will make dungeons and pre mythic raids a nightmare, but I have a feeling you might have been pulling my leg with this.

[Khelon]

Not spending any artifact points will make dungeons and pre mythic raids a nightmare, but I have a feeling you might have been pulling my leg with this.

I really dont think it will come down to the point where you have to pool artifact power in order to stay competitive. Arms need about 15k artifact just to unlock 2 major traits, same goes for fury. And if you take the current dungon sample reward into account, you need 75 dungeons per spec to achieve that goal. The remaining abilities will make a difference, but to the point where its not worth playing the spec until you have them? Probably not.

The numbers are clearly not finished (as you need over a million for the last 3 levels on some weapons) and the way you obtain artifact power is clearly not tuned for such high number either. 300 points per dungeon works for the first 2 major traits, but from there on you need over 4000 dungeons if not even more to just finish the weapon and Im 100% sure blizzard wont ask you to grind that much.

Start worrying about this when we are 2 months from release, if they make no changes it will hurt rogues, mages, warlocks & hunters the most.

[Bigbazz]

I really dont think it will come down to the point where you have to pool artifact power in order to stay competitive. Arms need about 15k artifact just to unlock 2 major traits, same goes for fury. And if you take the current dungon sample reward into account, you need 75 dungeons per spec to achieve that goal. The remaining abilities will make a difference, but to the point where its not worth playing the spec until you have them? Probably not.

The numbers are clearly not finished (as you need over a million for the last 3 levels on some weapons) and the way you obtain artifact power is clearly not tuned for such high number either. 300 points per dungeon works for the first 2 major traits, but from there on you need over 4000 dungeons if not even more to just finish the weapon and Im 100% sure blizzard wont ask you to grind that much.

Start worrying about this when we are 2 months from release, if they make no changes it will hurt rogues, mages, warlocks & hunters the most.

It's a concern to me now because it's a design choice goal for them currently to have it work out this way. Blizzard on Alpha forums were discussing how they would not expect you to have maxxed out Artifacts.

To clarify, the expectation is NOT that you'd have a fully maxxed artifact by the time you were doing Ursoc. We're scaling item level down a bit to adjust for this, but this lets us get better feedback on artifacts in a raid setting.

This is concerning the fact that they were scaling items down to compensate for the fact that fully unlocked artifacts were going to be available for the raid test, saying that you won't have fully unlocked artifacts for Mythic.

Of course that means if you put all your eggs in 1 basket you're making quite a gamble early on, if you spread your eggs into 2-3 baskets you're very likely heavily gimping yourself.. If you don't put any eggs into any baskets pre Mythic you're going to be a waste of space. It appears they want it to be some form of short-medium term progression, that you will work towards while raiding, maybe there will be some form of catchup that will help with secondary artifacts and it can all be fixed.

[MrMonstrosity]

I don't mind focusing only on one Artifact as it will make Arms/Fury warriors feel more unique, at the start at least, instead of switching every single fight. However, if it makes us good on some fights and garbage on the others I'll be upset. Hopefully they can balance it out (first time for everything) where you aren't punished for staying one spec throughout an entire raid/tier. Of course there will always be the top choice but maybe they can work it out so it's not as severe as it has been in the past.

The dream, as far as legendary items go, would be for them to open up completely new talent setups/gearing choices when you acquire them similar to how they work in Diablo III. For example, it would be cool to see a legendary that completely changes how we value Haste on gear. It make things interesting instead of every single warrior playing with the exact same cookie cutter build and gear. Demon Hunters are a good example, it looks like they have 2-3 different talent setups that change their rotation/playstyle completely.

[Bigbazz]

I don't mind focusing only on one Artifact as it will make Arms/Fury warriors feel more unique, at the start at least, instead of switching every single fight. However, if it makes us good on some fights and garbage on the others I'll be upset. Hopefully they can balance it out (first time for everything) where you aren't punished for staying one spec throughout an entire raid/tier. Of course there will always be the top choice but maybe they can work it out so it's not as severe as it has been in the past.

This is why I worry, Blizzard has not been able to balance the game well for years because they specifically aim for niche, which is not attemping to follow specific balance but to create flavour gameplay, problem is that it results in hilariously out of whack numbers and/or class stacking for specific encounters as we have seen in WOD. The niche style of class design is still very much the way it is in Legion, how it will pan out I have no idea but my worry is that we will see what has happened in the past where one spec of a class will dominate or one spec will be really far behind.

In WOD we change spec on every fight as Warriors, Rogues have to switch between Sub/Combat, Hunters play MM and the other 2 specs are effectively as dead as Gladiator. If we end up with a strong need to switch specs on a per fight basis, or if we end up playing a dead spec (which can happen after the fact through nerfs as it has in the past many times) then we're at a real big time disadvantage when it comes to raiding.

Depending on how Blizz handle it you could be seeing pretty a pretty well populated bench in Legion at the top end of progression, or it could all work out fine, the balancing could be good and getting multiple artifacts to raid worthy level (2 major traits) will be reasonable enough to not cause major issues.

[Khelon]

This is why I worry, Blizzard has not been able to balance the game well for years because they specifically aim for niche, which is not attemping to follow specific balance but to create flavour gameplay, problem is that it results in hilariously out of whack numbers and/or class stacking for specific encounters as we have seen in WOD. The niche style of class design is still very much the way it is in Legion, how it will pan out I have no idea but my worry is that we will see what has happened in the past where one spec of a class will dominate or one spec will be really far behind.

In WOD we change spec on every fight as Warriors, Rogues have to switch between Sub/Combat, Hunters play MM and the other 2 specs are effectively as dead as Gladiator. If we end up with a strong need to switch specs on a per fight basis, or if we end up playing a dead spec (which can happen after the fact through nerfs as it has in the past many times) then we're at a real big time disadvantage when it comes to raiding.

Depending on how Blizz handle it you could be seeing pretty a pretty well populated bench in Legion at the top end of progression, or it could all work out fine, the balancing could be good and getting multiple artifacts to raid worthy level (2 major traits) will be reasonable enough to not cause major issues.

Didnt they also mention that you could reset your artifact power, but it just wouldnt be as simple as using a tome?

If they do add in something like this, assuming one spec isnt worth playing at all, you would only have to reset that spec and spend it on the other.

[Bigbazz]

Didnt they also mention that you could reset your artifact power, but it just wouldnt be as simple as using a tome?

If they do add in something like this, assuming one spec isnt worth playing at all, you would only have to reset that spec and spend it on the other.

Costs 525 Artifact power for me to reset my artifact on the Alpha (the same as my next point I think), I haven't tried it but the way it is worded suggests you're resetting power for that specific artifact as a sort of "artifact respec", rather than refunding you artifact power to put into the artifact of your choice.

[Warriorsarri]

Resetting your Artifact traits, or to be precise, to refund the cost of the bought traits, you'll have to pay an Artifact Power equal to what your next trait would cost, as an example I had to pay just over 2000 AP to be able to redo my traits after the last shuffle of the tree.

[HolgerDK]

Resetting your Artifact traits, or to be precise, to refund the cost of the bought traits, you'll have to pay an Artifact Power equal to what your next trait would cost, as an example I had to pay just over 2000 AP to be able to redo my traits after the last shuffle of the tree.

That high a cost seems prohibitely expensive :-/

[Deleted]

Bring the legendary.

This really scares me. The item effects have looked genuinely gamebreaking so far.

[Caargon]

This really scares me. The item effects have looked genuinely gamebreaking so far.

You are not the only one.

The random-drop legendary flood is, in my opinion, the single worst idea to come out of Legion brainstorming thus far, by a mile.

[Rorke]

The Legendary system is added in so nobody ever has the best gear. That's why they have massive RNG behind Warforged gear and now they're putting RNG behind these Legendaries.

They always want you to feel like you can improve your character no matter what.

- - - Updated - - -

This really scares me. The item effects have looked genuinely gamebreaking so far.

I disagree. The people that have it will be at an advantage over those that don't. However, those that don't have it should either strive and get it or adapt and do what they can with what they have. I don't think any form of content in this game is going to depend on people having Legendaries anyway.

It's inevitable that some people are just going to get luckier than others and have better stats.

[Deleted]

I disagree.

You disagree with something on the forums?!?!?!?

I'm SHOCKED!!!

[Deleted]

Arms is so much fun to play in Legion I just fear they will Nerf overpower, as it is very powerful .. Perhaps to much ?

[Deleted]

Arms is so much fun to play in Legion I just fear they will Nerf overpower, as it is very powerful .. Perhaps to much ?

I fully agree. I used to main a Warrior in Vanilla and TBC, and then switched to another class but always kept it as an alt, and it has been a long time since I had this much fun with it. The only thing that bugs me is whether Colossus Smash makes sense. A part of me would prefer to get rid of it and buff all the abilities across the board, or keep Colossus Smash as a CD that you use every 1-2 min only (with no refreshes). The new animations help a lot too, Whirlwind and Bladestorm are awesome

[cFortyfive]

A part of me would prefer to get rid of it

And out of curiosity how do you fall not asleep doing a two button rotation ?