Arms Legion Discussion

[Artunias]

I feel like you guys must be playing a different spec lol. All I do is hit slam all day when I play arms and want to die.

[Breccia]

And out of curiosity how do you fall not asleep doing a two button rotation ?

Well Findal mains a MM hunter, so...

[MrMonstrosity]

The Legendary system is added in so nobody ever has the best gear. That's why they have massive RNG behind Warforged gear and now they're putting RNG behind these Legendaries.

They always want you to feel like you can improve your character no matter what.

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I disagree. The people that have it will be at an advantage over those that don't. However, those that don't have it should either strive and get it or adapt and do what they can with what they have. I don't think any form of content in this game is going to depend on people having Legendaries anyway.

It's inevitable that some people are just going to get luckier than others and have better stats.

I also like the idea of random world legendary items. They are something to get really excited about when they do finally (if ever) drop and should allow a way for players to progress their characters outside of raids, which has been missing from WoW for a long time.

The problem with the most current legendary items (ring/cloak) is that you are required to have them when joining most raid groups. With Legion's legendary items, as long as they kept really rare, nobody will be required to have them and they should be considered more of the exception (bonus) if you will. In Vanilla/TBC/Wrath players weren't required to have TF, HoR, glaives, etc, but if they did it was just considered a bonus.

This will be a dumb example attempt, but I'll do my best to explain:

Let's say 100 warriors were looking for a raid group.

WoD: 90/100 warriors have legendary ring

The majority of warriors have their legendary and it will be expected by most raid leaders. The players without the ring (new, casual, alt players) will have a much smaller chance to get a raid spot over someone that has their ring. In a progression guild a player without the ring has almost a 0% chance of being invited over someone with it.


Legion: 1/100 warriors with legendary

Sure the warrior with a legendary might get chosen before the other 99, but that's only one spot. Players won't be required to have them and most likely wouldn't even be competing against a player that has one for the spot anyway.

[Murlocbait]

Players won't be required to have them and most likely wouldn't even be competing against a player that has one for the spot anyway.

I wish i lived in your world. Not trying to be a dick, but have you actually interacted with players in WoW? First week of raiding, there will absolutely be people saying only those with a legendary are allowed (if they are not usable week one [i can't remember], then whenever they become usable in raid). Sure, there will be voices of reason who don't care about them, but as with all things in WoW, it will spiral outward. With every passing day/week, more people will assume that a Legendary is required, and require them in their own raids - because everyone else is doing it. Endless farming for some shitty drop-rate OP Legendary is not my idea of fun, but I suppose my idea of fun just doesn't line up with Blizz anymore, which is why I'm not playing WoW anymore (before anyone asks, I still read stuff and occasionally post here in the hopes of seeing something that will get me excited for WoW again, like the first iteration of Arms in alpha before they stripped it down into what I've been seeing now).

[MrMonstrosity]

I wish i lived in your world. Not trying to be a dick, but have you actually interacted with players in WoW? First week of raiding, there will absolutely be people saying only those with a legendary are allowed (if they are not usable week one [i can't remember], then whenever they become usable in raid). Sure, there will be voices of reason who don't care about them, but as with all things in WoW, it will spiral outward. With every passing day/week, more people will assume that a Legendary is required, and require them in their own raids - because everyone else is doing it. Endless farming for some shitty drop-rate OP Legendary is not my idea of fun, but I suppose my idea of fun just doesn't line up with Blizz anymore, which is why I'm not playing WoW anymore (before anyone asks, I still read stuff and occasionally post here in the hopes of seeing something that will get me excited for WoW again, like the first iteration of Arms in alpha before they stripped it down into what I've been seeing now).

What I'm suggesting is that the drop rates are so low that it's impossible to make it a requirement when recruiting for raids. Yes, I know it's probably wishful thinking. As time goes on sure more people will find them but as long as the drop rate is kept ridiculously low they should never become a requirement where a leader can actually demand "must have X legendary". I'm not sure if you ever played Vanilla but an entire server was lucky enough to have 2-5 players with a Thunderfury. If people were to put together a group back then and make a requirement "must have Thunderfury" you'd be laughed at.

As far as your "endless farming" comment. I hope they don't restrict legendary drops to only specific mob types. It would be nice if they opened it up to something like the following:

Specific mobs (lowest chance)
World Quest rewards (as a bonus reward or something similar to WoD Followers where they have a chance to be epic quality when rewarded)
Normal dungeons (low drop rates, personal loot)
Heroic dungeons (medium drop rates, personal loot)
Mythic+ dungeons (higher tiers = increased drop rate, personal loot)
Raid bosses (highest drop rates, personal loot)

Anyway, we should really move the thread back to specifics about Arms. I've seen a lot of talk about single target/cleave fights and rotations, what is it looking like as far as high aoe situations?

[Khelon]

Specific mobs (lowest chance)
World Quest rewards (as a bonus reward or something similar to WoD Followers where they have a chance to be epic quality when rewarded)
Normal dungeons (low drop rates, personal loot)
Heroic dungeons (medium drop rates, personal loot)
Mythic+ dungeons (higher tiers = increased drop rate, personal loot)
Raid bosses (highest drop rates, personal loot)

Thats their plan, everything will have a chance to drop them & the higher the difficulty is the higher the droprate will be.

I just hope the new personal loot system will work on legendaries too, because you dont want to be that guy with 2 of the same item while your guildie still needs one of them.

[Rorke]

I think that the majority of people are going to get at least two legendaries from world drops before the end of this expansion. This assumes that you're actively playing the game and doing the world quests. I think people that are going to grind mobs every day are missing the idea. The math is probably going to favor people that participate an hour or two at least once a day rather than binging it for 9 hours a day.

I just feel like everyone, even the most casual player is going to have some kind of legendary other than the weapon by the end of the expansion. Some people will end up having more or better ones which is fine. And of course, Raid Leaders are going to pick the people with the best stats. If you don't like it, then its up to you to either lead or become an officer for a leader that will respect you.

Adapt.

[cordrann]

Legendaries could just end up being a direct copy of exotics from Destiny. If you are dedicated you will have all of them with regular play and it will just be a matter of determining which one(s) to use in what situation. The way the system has been described thus far (you can only use one at a time to start), this seems extremely likely.

[Murlocbait]

Legendaries could just end up being a direct copy of exotics from Destiny. If you are dedicated you will have all of them with regular play and it will just be a matter of determining which one(s) to use in what situation. The way the system has been described thus far (you can only use one at a time to start), this seems extremely likely.

That seems fine on paper. But a handful of exotic armor pieces for 3 classes and some weapons that anyone can use are not quite the same as class-specific pieces for 14 different classes with effects that are arguably game-breaking in terms of impact on rotation and throughput. I'm not one to bitch about new things just because they are new - but the last thing we needed was another fucking armor piece for them to use to fix a shitty, hatchet-job spec/rotation rather than making it interesting and effective via baseline design. It was an awful idea in WoD, and it's a fucking awful idea going into Legion. Players deserve better.

[cordrann]

That seems fine on paper. But a handful of exotic armor pieces for 3 classes and some weapons that anyone can use are not quite the same as class-specific pieces for 14 different classes with effects that are arguably game-breaking in terms of impact on rotation and throughput. I'm not one to bitch about new things just because they are new - but the last thing we needed was another fucking armor piece for them to use to fix a shitty, hatchet-job spec/rotation rather than making it interesting and effective via baseline design. It was an awful idea in WoD, and it's a fucking awful idea going into Legion. Players deserve better.

That depends entirely on how targetable and farmable they end up being. It might end up horrible, but the sky isn't falling (yet).

[Bigbazz]

One of my biggest things with Arms is that it has reset mechanics while the cooldown is still 45 years long, so if you do get screwed over by RNG you are quite literally going to do no damage while eternally spamming Slam, the natural reset didn't need to be longer than 20-25 seconds, even with the 8s duration. Meh they haven't touched it in ages, we're gonna be stuck with it like we were stuck with it in WOD.

This is especially bad on adds or in dungeons, because you can be moving between adds and instead of focussing on prioritising damage you're just spamming for CS resets so you can focus on damage. So while at times it will work out the artifact ability as a form of protection, and of course when your RNG favours you it will be fine.. I just find it extremely ugly gameplay wise to be stuck in a situation where your skill as a player can do nothing to help the fact that your class has a massive RNG reliance that can leave you dry at important moments.

It leaves me thinking that I will have to play Fury, even though I've essentially leaned towards Arms since Dragon Soul.

[Artunias]

While fury has a few frustrations, it's typically enjoyable to play IMO. Arms is just complete trash right now.

[Deleted]

And out of curiosity how do you fall not asleep doing a two button rotation ?

The point is not whether the rotation is fun or not. I just don't like to have a limited window of DPS in all scenarios. I agree it makes sense in PvP, to use with CDs in PvE, or in other cases. But I would prefer to be able to opt out of it and just have a passive damage increase.

On your point though - it may be a stupid question - how are you doing a 2 skill rotation? Tuning aside, we got 5 skills: MS, Overpower, Rend/Bladestorm, Slam/Whirlwind and the Artifact skill. And that is not counting Cleave and Execute.

[Artunias]

The point is not whether the rotation is fun or not. I just don't like to have a limited window of DPS in all scenarios. I agree it makes sense in PvP, to use with CDs in PvE, or in other cases. But I would prefer to be able to opt out of it and just have a passive damage increase.

On your point though - it may be a stupid question - how are you doing a 2 skill rotation? Tuning aside, we got 5 skills: MS, Overpower, Rend/Bladestorm, Slam/Whirlwind and the Artifact skill. And that is not counting Cleave and Execute.

Overpower, Rend, and Bladestorm are all talents. And at least as of now, they are all sub optimal single target talents. You also don't use whirlwind or cleave on single target.

Leaving you with really just slam, with CS resets occasionally. MS isn't even worth using without Shattered Defenses over a slam with Trauma talent. So you just slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam.

[Deleted]

Overpower, Rend, and Bladestorm are all talents. And at least as of now, they are all sub optimal single target talents. You also don't use whirlwind or cleave on single target.

Leaving you with really just slam, with CS resets occasionally. MS isn't even worth using without Shattered Defenses over a slam with Trauma talent. So you just slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam slam.

Interesting... thanks for the info, will investigate. I understood that this was the basic design principle for the Arms warrior in Legion, that the base rotation would be very limited and you would add skills via talents. I must admit I didn't realize they were so undertuned. In the limited logs I have of myself with the spec, Overpower and MS were outperforming Slam +Trauma but I didn't try stacking it, will test it a bit.

[Artunias]

Could also be gear. Slam + trauma is amazingly efficient, combined with having the best chance to reset CS with the artifact trait. Which will just become more emphasized the more mastery you get.

And they did of course pitch the idea you speak of, but none of the talents interact in any way with the functionality of the spec which unfortunately can make them unappealing under the current model.

[cFortyfive]

On your point though - it may be a stupid question - how are you doing a 2 skill rotation? Tuning aside, we got 5 skills: MS, Overpower, Rend/Bladestorm, Slam/Whirlwind and the Artifact skill. And that is not counting Cleave and Execute.

Well I guess you have the option to skill those abilities just as you could go ahead and use titanic might if the "short" burst window playstyle doesn't appeal to you. Still both overpower and rend aren't exactly alone in their respective tiers so given the right balance the other options should end up being at least somewhat viable as well so at the end you could simply play ms/slam above execute range and after that just ms/execute presuming you got the legendary.
During testing I played more than enough encounters using sweeping strikes
Whether or not you consider one minute cooldowns which may even be rather situational as part of your rotation I suppose is up to preference personally I wouldn't.

[Deleted]

To be honest, I took those talents to test them because I presumed they would tune the warrior so that a more complex rotation would yield better damage. I thought that was the hole point with the warr this expansion, that you could over simplify the rotation if you wanted or you could go for a harder but more rewarding one. I see from your posts that this is not what it has turned out to be, which is a bit disappointing =/. But I guess this can change with further tuning.

[Artunias]

It wouldn't be that difficult to make that a true statement.

1) Tactician - 1.5% chance per rage spent to reset colossus smash
-Allows Overpower and Mortal Strike to contribute
-Rewards the high rage costs of execute
-No reason for Colossus Smash to have a 45 second cooldown, 20-25 should be more than enough and help prevent RNG from ruining your life

2) In for the Kill Baseline
-Or at least makes Mortal Strike rage neutral in execute phase as a baseline mechanic

3) Rend - While rend is applied to a target you will generate 5 rage every 3 seconds

4) Move Trauma to Mortal Strike
-Opens up strength of Mortal Combo talent
-Rewards proper play, discourages eternal spam of the slam
-Makes Mortal Strike still feel good in execute, assuming baseline In for the Kill mentioned above

[Murlocbait]

Without talents, does Arms seriously only have MS, Slam, and CS for single-target damage? Three fucking buttons?