Arms Legion Discussion

[Valkaneer]

Well I hope all your Warriors asking for nerfs are happy with yourselves, now you can enjoy safely being mid pack or riding the bottom without favourable RNG while overall balance is no better at all, just changing up the order. Spec is ruined gameplay wise, and damage output is mediocre as an overall result and a lot of you literally asked for this.

Yes a lot of us asked for the FR nerf of which most reasonable people know was well deserved. We don't want one cookie cutter spec, that is OP, not fun to play, and going to get nerfed into the ground which would have happened anyway even if we had said not a damn word, and you know it.

No one asked for a play style nerf and you know it. Your just crying cuz FR got it's well deserved nerf an looking for someone to blame cuz it lost it's OP status.

- - - Updated - - -

I got something for ya,

Blame the fanboy's that said FR was fantastic in Beta.

Blame the fanboy's that said it was the most fun spec ever to play.

Blame the people who said it was not OP when tuning was happening.

Blame the fanboys who would not support a buff to Mortal Combo and IFTK and said they were fine where they were.


Because if people would of supported buffs to IFTK and Mortal combo, you would have a spec that was a lot more fun to play, that was in line, and balanced with other specs.

[Anbokr]

Yes a lot of us asked for the FR nerf of which most reasonable people know was well deserved. We don't want one cookie cutter spec, that is OP, not fun to play, and going to get nerfed into the ground which would have happened anyway even if we had said not a damn word, and you know it.

No one asked for a play style nerf and you know it. Your just crying cuz FR got it's well deserved nerf an looking for someone to blame cuz it lost it's OP status.

I do agree, and most of the crying is over the tac nerf no one asked for as you say. However, these guys have a point honestly. I was one of the guys going around touting how FR needed to be nerfed, but what do you guys think these Blizz devs see when they do their jobs and run around MMO-C, reddit, and the wow forums seeing "inevitable FR nerf, FR needs to be nerfed, etc..." everywhere and report their "feedback" to the dev team?

It signals to them that we are fine with getting crushed, and everyone knows by now, when Blizz nerfs, they often don't nerf optimally. They take a chainsaw to some overgrown grass. Do you think fire mages were going around saying how OP they were and how X talent or Y talent needed nerfs? MM hunters? No lol! We just gotta learn to accept our position if we're near the top and stay mum. Suggest improvements, but don't constantly ask to be nerfed or make a nerf seem acceptable.

I think a lot of people subconsciously felt like when the arms nerfs came, Fury would be buffed up and it would be WoD 2.0 - complete reversal with Fury near the top of PvE. Instead, we got a reality check. Arms got the fun stripped out of it, sent to mediocrity, and Fury is still at the bottom (especially when everything above and below it got megabuffed, Fury indirectly feels nerfed compared to its peers/competitors).

[Valkaneer]

Letting a spec hang on the crutches of OP damage, and not play style / balance, means you get a shit spec when it gets it's well deserved nerf.

[Deleted]

Yes a lot of us asked for the FR nerf of which most reasonable people know was well deserved. We don't want one cookie cutter spec, that is OP, not fun to play, and going to get nerfed into the ground which would have happened anyway even if we had said not a damn word, and you know it.

No one asked for a play style nerf and you know it. Your just crying cuz FR got it's well deserved nerf an looking for someone to blame cuz it lost it's OP status.

- - - Updated - - -

I got something for ya,

Blame the fanboy's that said FR was fantastic in Beta.

Blame the fanboy's that said it was the most fun spec ever to play.

Blame the people who said it was not OP when tuning was happening.

Blame the fanboys who would not support a buff to Mortal Combo and IFTK and said they were fine where they were.


Because if people would of supported buffs to IFTK and Mortal combo, you would have a spec that was a lot more fun to play, that was in line, and balanced with other specs.

It might be not fun for you, but for others. Shouldn't generalize.

[thefatty01]

Now that fury gearing has changed, at least they use almost the same gear now instead of complete opposite Its the little things

[cFortyfive]

ing cuz FR got it's well deserved nerf an looking for someone to blame cuz it lost it's OP status.

Is that what people consider reasonable ? It was if at best op on a single encounter in the instance and that in the hands of rng gawds. Bitch please.

[Valkaneer]

I do agree, and most of the crying is over the tac nerf no one asked for as you say. However, these guys have a point honestly. I was one of the guys going around touting how FR needed to be nerfed, but what do you guys think these Blizz devs see when they do their jobs and run around MMO-C, reddit, and the wow forums seeing "inevitable FR nerf, FR needs to be nerfed, etc..." everywhere and report their "feedback" to the dev team?

It signals to them that we are fine with getting crushed, and everyone knows by now, when Blizz nerfs, they often don't nerf optimally. They take a chainsaw to some overgrown grass. Do you think fire mages were going around saying how OP they were and how X talent or Y talent needed nerfs? MM hunters? No lol! We just gotta learn to accept our position if we're near the top and stay mum. Suggest improvements, but don't constantly ask to be nerfed or make a nerf seem acceptable.

I think a lot of people subconsciously felt like when the arms nerfs came, Fury would be buffed up and it would be WoD 2.0 - complete reversal with Fury near the top of PvE. Instead, we got a reality check. Arms got the fun stripped out of it, sent to mediocrity, and Fury is still at the bottom (especially when everything above and below it got megabuffed, Fury indirectly feels nerfed compared to its peers/competitors).

Well see that's not the problem of we that said FR needed to be nerfed. That is the problem of those who said it was not FR. See when I said FR needed a nerf and only FR people like Bigbazz (well it was Bigbazz) said FR was fine and it was other things that needed the nerf. Well he got what he wanted, other things got nerfed.

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Is that what people consider reasonable ? It was if at best op on a single encounter in the instance and that in the hands of rng gawds. Bitch please.

FR is in the top 2 or 3 in DPS with gear ilvls over 842 in 90% and up currently. They don't balance at the bottom percentiles. They balance off of what's possible from at the top 100 guild skill level.

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It might be not fun for you, but for others. Shouldn't generalize.

Problem there is they were using a crutch, it was called 3 relics of EW. They should of called that out, and got the play style fixed. Instead they told we that liked WotLK style of play if you don't like the FR style go play any class. Cuz they were fine with IFTK and Mortal Combo being down on the bottom. Now there eating their own sandwich.

[cFortyfive]

FR is in the top 2 or 3 in DPS with gear ilvls over 842 in 90% and up currently. They don't balance at the bottom percentiles. They balance off of what's possible from at the top 100 guild skill level.

That's ridiculous why wasn't feral even touched if that was the case ? Why is arcane buffed when the "top100" skill level players are already able to pull out decent numbers ?

[Levisaurus]

Now that fury gearing has changed, at least they use almost the same gear now instead of complete opposite Its the little things

Wait what, really?

[Bigbazz]

Yes a lot of us asked for the FR nerf of which most reasonable people know was well deserved. We don't want one cookie cutter spec, that is OP, not fun to play, and going to get nerfed into the ground which would have happened anyway even if we had said not a damn word, and you know it.

No one asked for a play style nerf and you know it. Your just crying cuz FR got it's well deserved nerf an looking for someone to blame cuz it lost it's OP status.

- - - Updated - - -

I got something for ya,

Blame the fanboy's that said FR was fantastic in Beta.

Blame the fanboy's that said it was the most fun spec ever to play.

Blame the people who said it was not OP when tuning was happening.

Blame the fanboys who would not support a buff to Mortal Combo and IFTK and said they were fine where they were.


Because if people would of supported buffs to IFTK and Mortal combo, you would have a spec that was a lot more fun to play, that was in line, and balanced with other specs.

Yeah I don't really agree the nerf was so warrented, 3rd best spec with highly volatile gameplay making it questionable for progression due to RNG, useless AOE capability, that has even less usefulness in Mythic because no patchwerk fights. All we have done is traded one set of overperforming classes for another set, and if Arcane recent logs are anything to go by it's worse now than it was before.

If you're strong as a class then take it and see what Blizzard does not champion the cause for a nerf by overexaggerating how "OP" you think a spec is because you don't want to play the build. We were performing overall better in both Blackrock Foundry and Highmaul than we are here (Aka decimating most people on most fights), where were the cries for nerfs then? Nowhere because we werent top on simcraft, and simcraft numbers have been proven to be absolute bullshit compared to the actual logs this week, but no most of you were crying for nerfs over simcraft.

Where were the cries for MM hunter to be nerfed? Nowhere because despite being exceptionally high in raids they were low on Simcraft. I get pretty damn annoyed at people treating simcraft like some bible when it's always proven to be flawed or bugged in some way, a flawed look at raiding classes in a vacuum with a very useful but as always flawed simulation.

So like I said enjoy being shit and benched, i'll be off to gear up my Rogue so I still have a raid spot.

[simperial]

So like I said enjoy being shit and benched, i'll be off to gear up my Rogue so I still have a raid spot.

I've been on the same page as you until this part. Honestly, i'm not rerolling. I'm simply not going to play anymore. I've invested too much time into being raid ready - from grinding insane amounts of AP to mats for consumables that are predictably overpriced, to grinding out BiS pieces for my class. All the while trusting that the "we're not going to nerf, we're going to improve underperformers" line the developers have been feeding us is the truth.

We were lied to.

Its as simple as that. I do not trust the developers. I do not believe they are competent and I do not believe their strategy for Legion is going to go well. Take a look at the track record - poor design and development decisions have crushed WoW's subscription numbers since Wrath and it started with Cataclysm.

We provided immense feedback during the beta about the poor RNG dps concepting for warriors. No response or acknowledgment. DURING THE BETA. Think about that - they flat out ignored and did not even engage in a dialogue with leaders of our community (e.g. Arch) who were invited to participate in the beta for just that reason. They committed to a design strategy and they're not going to deviate, regardless of how awful of an experience it is. This is it, this is warrior gameplay for the rest of this expansion.

This mediocre, junior development team that built out these "class fantasies" and the associated gameplay mechanics, should not be rewarded for their utterly unacceptable failure. They've broken almost every fundamental design rule in how they've approached class design AND balancing - and they've done it while lying to us.

[Baracuda]

Anyone else disappointed with how weak rend is? It needs a damage buff and something more interesting going on, like generating rage and/or higher dmg/duration if target moves.

[MightyCrixus]

I've been on the same page as you until this part. Honestly, i'm not rerolling. I'm simply not going to play anymore. I've invested too much time into being raid ready - from grinding insane amounts of AP to mats for consumables that are predictably overpriced, to grinding out BiS pieces for my class. All the while trusting that the "we're not going to nerf, we're going to improve underperformers" line the developers have been feeding us is the truth.

We were lied to.

Its as simple as that. I do not trust the developers. I do not believe they are competent and I do not believe their strategy for Legion is going to go well. Take a look at the track record - poor design and development decisions have crushed WoW's subscription numbers since Wrath and it started with Cataclysm.

We provided immense feedback during the beta about the poor RNG dps concepting for warriors. No response or acknowledgment. DURING THE BETA. Think about that - they flat out ignored and did not even engage in a dialogue with leaders of our community (e.g. Arch) who were invited to participate in the beta for just that reason. They committed to a design strategy and they're not going to deviate, regardless of how awful of an experience it is. This is it, this is warrior gameplay for the rest of this expansion.

This mediocre, junior development team that built out these "class fantasies" and the associated gameplay mechanics, should not be rewarded for their utterly unacceptable failure. They've broken almost every fundamental design rule in how they've approached class design AND balancing - and they've done it while lying to us.

Very true and very well thought out, +1 for this. Still going to wait til Tuesday myself to see if i enjoy arms at all and have decent numbers. Have a nice titan forged 870 relic waiting but i don't even want to put it in my 830 slot before Tuesday in case i need to put it into fury and play a still under powered post buff spec.

[Anbokr]

I've been on the same page as you until this part. Honestly, i'm not rerolling. I'm simply not going to play anymore. I've invested too much time into being raid ready - from grinding insane amounts of AP to mats for consumables that are predictably overpriced, to grinding out BiS pieces for my class. All the while trusting that the "we're not going to nerf, we're going to improve underperformers" line the developers have been feeding us is the truth.

This is probably my boat as well sadly. I put all my AP into arms on the promises that there wouldn't be significant playstyle shifts or crushing nerfs overnight, yet that's exactly what happened. I don't want to reroll; I don't want to play my alt who is 3 weeks behind on artifact knowledge.

Artifacts and artifact knowledge in general do a great job of completely demoralizing you if you no longer enjoy your spec for whatever reason. It's not easy to even shift into your offspec or reroll realizing man; I have to grind WQ's again, grind rep again, wait for AK time locks, grind AP, grind normals, heroics, then mythics, etc...

Artifact knowledge being account wide would have made this expansion a lot better overall and much more alt friendly without trivializing the alt grinds or character progression.

Come Tuesday if all of these changes indeed go through with nothing from the balance team; I'm probably done. I'll keep collecting my artifact knowledge and pay attention to the PTR until my sub runs out, but I'm not optimistic. Fury has been limping along with enrage for months now and Arms was significantly hampered overnight w/o regard to the functionality of the spec whatsoever - which tells me the devs rely much more on spreadsheets and raw numbers over actually playing and testing a particular spec in action.

[vsb]

Is FR build still the best? Can someone recommend 2-nd best build after FR? What difference would be between those? I hate that playstyle and I'm pretty bad at it, if the difference is not that huge, I would switch to it.

[Deleted]

Is FR build still the best? Can someone recommend 2-nd best build after FR? What difference would be between those? I hate that playstyle and I'm pretty bad at it, if the difference is not that huge, I would switch to it.

difference is still huge. FR build is still best by a large margin. next week IFTK+trauma+ops build will be even lower than frost dk.

[Fallom]

I would love for the other 2/3rds of our talents to be useful. The FR build can be fun when getting procs, but an overpower, rend, FOB build would be fun too.

Choosing between double charge and stuns, choosing between heroic leap and second wind while doing world content these seem like strange hodgepodge choices in talents.

You kind of don't have a choice what talents you use with FR build... And everything else is meh. It's interesting to me that Warrior as a class always has to sacrafice something to get something. Ie take more damage when enraged, choose having a stun or mobility. Having a heal or mobility. 'Most' other classes don't have to sacrafice to have a somewhat put together toolkit. Most other classes have some talents they can switch between. It's frustrating that the Devs don't see that the class is only half complete compared to other classes. It feels the most 'Vanilla' which leads me to believe the warrior devs dont actaully play a warrior.

[Shadow Fox]

I've been trying out this build... I'ts designed more towards Dungeons / Mythics, but it does hold it's own in ST fairly well. (While not the most optimal of choices for ST.)

It's plenty strong for WQ/Farmimg.

*Note, I'm only 829. Been playing catch-up.

http://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/arms/cxBM

[Sorshen]

I'm sorry but trauma build is not even close to FR. And after the EtW nerf in two days, it will be one of the worst specs in the game.

[noctred]

http://imgur.com/r/wow/CiXG12m