Arms Legion Discussion

[Calamari]

It's hard to see how Mastery can be bad with the scaling as it is.

CS with mastery contribution baseline is 20%--but the YouTube guys were reporting Mastery levels that "increased damage by 112%" on Alpha in green gear. If people stack it, especially in light of the fact that Tactician has no direct external stat influences (i.e. C, V and H don't directly affect it), then the % increases are going to be stupidly high.

Perhaps the scaling is just broken at the moment. :/

(Crit etc. obviously affect Tactician in that more rage, shorter GCDs help, but the stats don't factor in the %chance to proc, which is stuck at 20%, afaik.)

If the mastery scaling is going to be anywhere near that good, it kinda does sound like they'll expect us to stack it.. Would be pretty cool if mastery just increased the chance for CS to proc, instead of increasing the initial damage of the attack, so we'd just stop going for mastery after we've got a comfortably high proc chance for CS.

[Deleted]

The base spec feels pretty bad unless you take Dauntless in my opinion. The artifact has some massive game changers on it, without it the spec is really similar to live Arms.

That said, even just a couple of the very early artifact traits on Stromkar improve the playstyle a lot.

Agree with this. At the outset with no Artifact and the standard green questing gear it feels pretty terrible but once you lob some points into the Artifact you shouldn't have an issue. Having said that I have never really felt the need for Dauntless, it's a nice passive but underwhelming compared to Overpower imo.

It's hard to see how Mastery can be bad with the scaling as it is.

CS with mastery contribution baseline is 20%--but the YouTube guys were reporting Mastery levels that "increased damage by 112%" on Alpha in green gear. If people stack it, especially in light of the fact that Tactician has no direct external stat influences (i.e. C, V and H don't directly affect it), then the % increases are going to be stupidly high.

Perhaps the scaling is just broken at the moment. :/

As you level in the Alpha the Mastery % falls rapidly - at 108 I'm sat o 40%. Nothing is itemised or tuned properly yet which doesn't help much but I don't think we're going to see Mastery percentages that high until we are deep into the expansion (if we do at all).

If the mastery scaling is going to be anywhere near that good, it kinda does sound like they'll expect us to stack it.. Would be pretty cool if mastery just increased the chance for CS to proc, instead of increasing the initial damage of the attack, so we'd just stop going for mastery after we've got a comfortably high proc chance for CS.

Can see where you are coming from with that but the problem with the Mastery you suggest is that it would scale poorly later into the expansion. With the CS extension mechanics we have you would just end up with a lot of wasted CS procs the more Mastery you stacked.

[Deleted]

Only thing I hope for is that Titanic Might (+200% duration and -50% damage bonus to CS debuff) is a good and viable choice for PvE dps, and that avoiding mastery to further reduce reliance on CS procs is also viable, for I would really love the option for arms to spec out of CS proc reliance and exchange unpredictable spikes in dps for a much more smooth and even dps curve and experience overall.

That talent is a classic ST rotation noob trap for the more "gifted" player or anyone re-rolling from hunter to use

On a side note, it does show some good potential for a council type fight with long sustained aoe damage with rend tabbing, if you like that sort of thing!

[Calamari]

Can see where you are coming from with that but the problem with the Mastery you suggest is that it would scale poorly later into the expansion. With the CS extension mechanics we have you would just end up with a lot of wasted CS procs the more Mastery you stacked.

That's a fair point, well at least hoping they'll bump the base proc chance closer to around 25-30%, even if they had to nerf the mastery damage to compensate. At 20% proc chance, there'll be some inevitable moments of RNG hell.

Kinda wish they would keep RNG gamble a thing for Fury, and not also give Arms what is essentially another Bloodthirst.

[Wulfey]

How is everyone playing legion so much? I want to try this stuff.

[Bigbazz]

How is everyone playing legion so much? I want to try this stuff.

Blizzard invited everyone with 13/13 mythic progress + a few people here were already in due to theorycrafting contributions or otherwise.

[Archimtiros]

Blizzard invited everyone with 13/13 mythic progress + a few people here were already in due to theorycrafting contributions or otherwise.

It has nothing to do with anything, but this isn't true. The rumor that everyone who is 13/13 M gets an invite is just that, a rumor. The reason it seems this way every expansion is simply due to involvement; obviously 13/13M players tend to be more involved in the game than casual ones, so the majority of what you see on feedback forums, streams, etc tend to be those types of players. However, I can tell you for a fact that there are 13/13M players without access.

Likewise, theorycrafters don't get invited because they are theorycrafters. The ones that do get invited because they are on F&F lists which come from making a personal connection with an employee (which may or may not be related to their actual theorycrafting work).

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That's a fair point, well at least hoping they'll bump the base proc chance closer to around 25-30%, even if they had to nerf the mastery damage to compensate. At 20% proc chance, there'll be some inevitable moments of RNG hell.

Kinda wish they would keep RNG gamble a thing for Fury, and not also give Arms what is essentially another Bloodthirst.

It's actually very different from Bloodthirst. Most notably because it does not gate the rotation, and has a set cooldown so that it will come up eventually, regardless of procs. The proc chance/CD of CS is a matter of tuning, nothing more, and won't change the rotation the way BT crits for Fury will.

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It's hard to see how Mastery can be bad with the scaling as it is.

CS with mastery contribution baseline is 20%--but the YouTube guys were reporting Mastery levels that "increased damage by 112%" on Alpha in green gear. If people stack it, especially in light of the fact that Tactician has no direct external stat influences (i.e. C, V and H don't directly affect it), then the % increases are going to be stupidly high.

Perhaps the scaling is just broken at the moment. :/

(Crit etc. obviously affect Tactician in that more rage, shorter GCDs help, but the stats don't factor in the %chance to proc, which is stuck at 20%, afaik.)

Mastery is going to get nerfed. When creating the new Mastery, they reused the coefficients from the old mastery which only affected a few attacks, and no amount of tuning has happened yet.

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As for rage generation, taking dmg should generate rage again.. Why is it a PvP talent?
That was always part of Warriors, it only makes sense right? I'm taking dmg, I'm getting angrier!

For more controllable rage, returning Battle Shout as a minute cd, generating 20 rage, would be nice. Altough probably not needed if they keep the Recklessness (rename it back to this please? Battle Cry sounds ridiculous) artifact trait.

But yeah, taking dmg should generate rage.

Because it enables negative gameplay in PvE, ie: players purposefully taking damage to increase their DPS. This may be fun for that player, but it's a snowball effect that leads to balancing, gameplay, and cooperative issues.

[Bigbazz]

It has nothing to do with anything, but this isn't true. The rumor that everyone who is 13/13 M gets an invite is just that, a rumor. The reason it seems this way every expansion is simply due to involvement; obviously 13/13M players tend to be more involved in the game than casual ones, so the majority of what you see on feedback forums, streams, etc tend to be those types of players. However, I can tell you for a fact that there are 13/13M players without access.

Likewise, theorycrafters don't get invited because they are theorycrafters. The ones that do get invited because they are on F&F lists which come from making a personal connection with an employee (which may or may not be related to their actual theorycrafting work).

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It's actually very different from Bloodthirst. Most notably because it does not gate the rotation, and has a set cooldown so that it will come up eventually, regardless of procs. The proc chance/CD of CS is a matter of tuning, nothing more, and won't change the rotation the way BT crits for Fury will.

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Mastery is going to get nerfed. When creating the new Mastery, they reused the coefficients from the old mastery which only affected a few attacks, and no amount of tuning has happened yet.

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Because it enables negative gameplay in PvE, ie: players purposefully taking damage to increase their DPS. This may be fun for that player, but it's a snowball effect that leads to balancing, gameplay, and cooperative issues.

But every 13/13m raider did get invited, and all at the same time. Every 13/13m player I know got invited (within my guild, in other guilds), and I don't know any 13/13m raiders that were left out (only those who were not 13/13m at the time of invites). This seems to be the case consistently all over, I've yet to find a player who was 13/13m last year who didn't get invited during the january wave. But feel free to correct that if you have evidence to the contrary.

You yourself got invited before the 13/13m wave went out, unless you're best buddies with someone in Blizzard or are running a highly successful youtube channel/twitch stream then it's pretty likely you got invited due to your theorycrafting.

[Archimtiros]

But every 13/13m raider did get invited, and all at the same time.

This claim has been made every expansion since Cataclysm, and has continually been proven false. A great number of them did, but not all by any means.

You yourself got invited before the 13/13m wave went out, unless you're best buddies with someone in Blizzard or are running a highly successful youtube channel/twitch stream then it's pretty likely you got invited due to your theorycrafting.

I know exactly when and why I was invited. Please re-read the last sentence in my second paragraph.

[Bigbazz]

This claim has been made every expansion since Cataclysm, and has continually been proven false. A great number of them did, but not all by any means.

But this is completely irrelevant, nobody was claiming that all full progression raiders were invited in previous expansions because most of them weren't.

I've never heard that claim before other than from salty people on forums getting mad at high end raiders. I got into Cataclysm because a guildy (who was an addon developer) was given a few keys by Blizzard and was kind enough to let me have one, but pretty much nobody else from my guild got in regardless of our progress, same with friends in other guilds it was very hot/cold, very few people I spoke to got invited.

In MOP Blizzard invited everyone who subbed for a year as part of the deal. in WOD I was a scrub but I knew a lot of 14/14hc raiders who did not get into the Beta, almost all of my friends were left out regardless of their swift progression in HC. I got into WOD beta purely by chance from making a new account entirely for RAF, my main account was not invited at any point.

And then we have Legion... Everyone I know who is 13/13m gets invited at the same time, every person I talk to about it is the same. I've not yet seen anyone who was not invited who met those requirements. And of all of my friends who are not 13/13m, none of them got invited... It's never happened this way before, and everyone is saying the same that if you're 13/13m (prior to invite wave) you got invited.

Not seen anything that shows otherwise yet.

[Archimtiros]

And of all of my friends who are not 13/13m, none of them got invited... It's never happened this way before, and everyone is saying the same that if you're 13/13m (prior to invite wave) you got invited.

Not seen anything that shows otherwise yet.

Like I said, it's a matter of sample size. You see mostly mythic raiders because they are likely to be the ones most involved, while the rest hide in obscurity. Legion Alpha is also quite large, more so than it's name would suggest.

The claim was relevant because I was pointing out this isn't the first time this rumor has been made.

[Surtruk]

Does it look like it'll be another expansion of AM being our level 100 talent all day? It seems like it might be worthwhile to force Reck to line up with Corrupted Rage since no GCD, but I haven't seen anything on Opportunity Strike's scaling and Ravager still hits like a wet noodle.

[Bigbazz]

Does it look like it'll be another expansion of AM being our level 100 talent all day? It seems like it might be worthwhile to force Reck to line up with Corrupted Rage since no GCD, but I haven't seen anything on Opportunity Strike's scaling and Ravager still hits like a wet noodle.

Ravager doesn't hit hard but has good synergy with the 1minute AOE burst (Bladestorm, Corrupted Rage, Battle Cry) and so it's still strong in that situation. Opportunity Strike I've been using while leveling and seems to do pretty decent damage, it depends how they balance all the numbers out but nothing is set in stone yet, it will depend on boss and gear design.

[Archimtiros]

Does it look like it'll be another expansion of AM being our level 100 talent all day? It seems like it might be worthwhile to force Reck to line up with Corrupted Rage since no GCD, but I haven't seen anything on Opportunity Strike's scaling and Ravager still hits like a wet noodle.

Lining up Reck with Corrupted Rage isn't strictly necessary outside of AoE, when pairing them both with Bladestorm. Corrupted Rage is a nicer filler when you really need it, but resets should carry you along.

It's hard to evaluate talents like OpS right now, it adds absolutely nothing mechanical, and tuning hasn't happened yet. Ravager could be nice, but it suffers the same flaws as in WoD: it's targeted and it's damage lasts longer than is necessary for most encounters, generally "wasting" a good portion of it's AoE.

[Artunias]

So, how are you guys staying motivated to keep playing the live game when the Alpha version of warrior is 1000x more fun?

[Bigbazz]

So, how are you guys staying motivated to keep playing the live game when the Alpha version of warrior is 1000x more fun?

I haven't been full time raiding since December last year, and last week I cut my raiding commitments down to zero and effectively went social, my motivation to play live is at about zero, burned out and enjoying my free time spent doing other stuff.

On the other hand I have been playing the Alpha a fair bit, farming 1200 Artifact Power for the next point while being XP capped is not so attractive though. I'm currently leveling the leap talent (copy of D3's Barbarian rune "Iron Impact") to make my way towards Mortal Strike resettting CS. Probably won't touch the Alpha much until the next build now, not feeling the desire to level my Fury Warrior on there.

So yeah, not playing live and waiting for next Alpha build or raid test.

[Archimtiros]

So, how are you guys staying motivated to keep playing the live game when the Alpha version of warrior is 1000x more fun?

I'm not.

[Deleted]

Does it look like it'll be another expansion of AM being our level 100 talent all day? It seems like it might be worthwhile to force Reck to line up with Corrupted Rage since no GCD, but I haven't seen anything on Opportunity Strike's scaling and Ravager still hits like a wet noodle.

AM does seem like the way to go when u unlocked most if not all of your artifact traits. There is so many of them tied to battle cry(reck) , that u will want to have that bad boy come of the cd as many times as possible.

[Deleted]

But every 13/13m raider did get invited, and all at the same time.

This was only until a fix date. maybe 5 weeks ago. I think it was shortly before the raidtests open on Alpha.
there was this one big key-rollout-wave for 13/13 M raider.

my guild killed Archi Mythic 2 weeks ago and no one in my guild gets an invite.

So I just want to confirm, that if you kill Archi M, you dont get automatically an Alphainvite

[Deleted]

This was only until a fix date. maybe 5 weeks ago. I think it was shortly before the raidtests open on Alpha.
there was this one big key-rollout-wave for 13/13 M raider.

my guild killed Archi Mythic 2 weeks ago and no one in my guild gets an invite.

So I just want to confirm, that if you kill Archi M, you dont get automatically an Alphainvite

My guild killed Archi in december and only few (3-4?) people got the invite. So the 13/13M statement is clearly wrong.