Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[nicknite1]

I havent looked at that but send a Tickets and told us what they say.
I´ll check BBuss at night.

Thanks.

So what it appears is happening is instead of it hitting for the listed amount, it's hitting 4 times in a row, each one can crit separately. This was an oversight by me is all. Seems to be working as intended just difficult to notice without really paying attention to logs.

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So it procs right? And when you execute it, hits the same as PS? If I remember right, BB hits like 3-4 times. So probably need to add up all of those to see the increase damage.

Yeah it does. It's just misleading as a crit from 400k dmg would be around 600-650, which would help outlaw in a good way that it really needs currently..

[Norica]

Sometimes i want more from BB too. lol
Another subject: Which Relics and Trinkets are you looking for? I have no idea which one is better for us right now

[Capita1ist]

Sometimes i want more from BB too. lol
Another subject: Which Relics and Trinkets are you looking for? I have no idea which one is better for us right now

http://simc.aethys.eu/

[Xanatu]

Curious why you went for Tier Chest which arguably has our 2 worst stats.. when the Pants have our 2 best.. and the Nightbane Chest has our best. Do keep in mind that BIS doesn't all need to come from NH (as you have Helya Storm reilc) Also you seem to very much be going for alot of haste. Also Shoulders are Crit/haste not Mastery/Haste.

This'll probably change as I gear. Haste sims very well for me (10% over crit right now) but I'm not sure if it's going to get worse as I gear more. The off-set pants from Botanist are REALLY good as well. It depends where the non-vers secondary stats shake out, I guess.

[nicknite1]

Sometimes i want more from BB too. lol
Another subject: Which Relics and Trinkets are you looking for? I have no idea which one is better for us right now

I'm an Outlaw noob but because my main is Sub I have a heavy mastery build. I normally use SnD (yes, I know it's not ideal), so for me, I could picture Nightblooming Frond and Convergence of Fates to be BiS as my attack speed with SnD, Sephuz, Hero, and AR going is pretty stupid fast. I could also see all of us using Arcanogolem Digit as BiS for AoE fights.

[Norica]

I'm an Outlaw noob but because my main is Sub I have a heavy mastery build. I normally use SnD (yes, I know it's not ideal), so for me, I could picture Nightblooming Frond and Convergence of Fates to be BiS as my attack speed with SnD, Sephuz, Hero, and AR going is pretty stupid fast. I could also see all of us using Arcanogolem Digit as BiS for AoE fights.

Thanks for your answer, I use SnD too, not sure why but feel better to me.

[Khobahi]

This'll probably change as I gear. Haste sims very well for me (10% over crit right now) but I'm not sure if it's going to get worse as I gear more. The off-set pants from Botanist are REALLY good as well. It depends where the non-vers secondary stats shake out, I guess.

I know what you mean, every now and then haste does creep up in stat weight however I find that its only a % or 2 before it goes back below crit, with your BiS list i can see the haste getting to be way to much.

if you want to get some haste, would it not make sense to take the Tier pants Crit/Versa, and then change out the tier chest for Tunic of Unwavering Devotion from Trilliax which is Crit/Haste? (assuming you are after all NH gear which should be "easier" to get at a high ilvl)

[Euphrum]

haste is getting worse then mastery with 2pc/4pc bonus and 2fatebringer+.

Convergence of Fates is reducing adrush cd by aproxx 45second/per minute. (more then 8ppm with outlaw) Nightblooming Frond is overrated unless you plan to play with SnD.

Tier Shoulders have Crit+Haste.

Eye of Comand + Karazhan chest is probably the way to go + Convergence of fates. There just isnt much gear you want to have besides this one trinket and 4 piece T-set. Waiting for itemlvl increase on titanforged items / higher reward cap on m+ ...

http://www2.pic-upload.de/img/32511322/trinkets.jpg

What's the easiest way for me to a trinket sim like this with my own character? I feel like things change a bit with what leggos you have, so I'd like to do my own.

[elfporn]

This'll probably change as I gear. Haste sims very well for me (10% over crit right now) but I'm not sure if it's going to get worse as I gear more. The off-set pants from Botanist are REALLY good as well. It depends where the non-vers secondary stats shake out, I guess.

Have you checked out the machine learning on AMR? When you run a gearing strategy it gives both weights and the machine learning data set.

The machine learning looks to be optimal stat amounts for an ilvl, for example it would show optimal stats for 890, 900, and 910 (or more)

You would use those stats as a guideline for moving towards BiS.

You can also create or generate a BiS set to run a gearing strategy for.

[Deleted]

What's the easiest way for me to a trinket sim like this with my own character? I feel like things change a bit with what leggos you have, so I'd like to do my own.

These trinket sims use gear with an average item level of 885. The gear set does not include any legendaries. They are meant to be used as a baseline ranking system. The only true way to obtain your character's optimal trinkets is to sim yourself.

The Data itself is copy/paste from http://roguedpsguide.com/rogue-legion-wow-trinkets-pve/.

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After playing around with Simcraft i may have found my BiS-Wishlist i underestimated Nightblooming Frond because of Data i read in a Theorycrafters Guide, well most of its Data seems a bit outdatet or not accurate enough for Outlaw anyway.

Head: Mask of Multitudinous Eyes (890) EN
Neck: Pendant of Liquid Horror (890) EN random drop
Shoulders: Doomblade Spaulders (890) NH
Back: Doomblade Shadowrap (890) NH
Chest: Harness of Smoldering Betrayal (890) Karazhan Titanforged
Wrists: Greenskins (940)
Hands: Doomblade Gaunlets (890) NH
Waist: Cake Carrier's Girdle (890) NH
Legs: Doomblade Pants (890) NH
Feet: Felbat Leather Boots (890) Vault of the Wardens
Finger1: Insignia of Ravenholdt (940)
Finger2: Ring of Exclusive Servitude (890) NH
Trinket1: Convergence of Fates (890) NH
Trinket2: Nightblooming Frond (890) NH

And tripple Fatebringer Relics (890).

Stat Conclusion:
Crit: 40,75% (11898)
Haste: 9,29% (3485)
Versatility: 13,98% (6265)
Mastery: 23,23% (1024)

Sim Results: ~775000 DPS
EP Values:
Agi: 21,13
Vers: 14,45
Wdps: 14,28
Crit: 13,79
Haste: 9,94
Mastery: 9,17
OHdps: 4,02

Nightblooming Frond indeed has a cool side effect, it makes haste valueable again after losing so much value from tripple fatebringer and those setboni. That makes it actually BiS. The 890 Version however is pretty close to the Eye of Command 890 version + Chest just a little bit ahead because of the stats on the gear available in NH. But besides changing the Belt for a Crit/Mastery Belt its pretty hard to find other slots to support crit/mastery instead of crit/haste itemisation without losing on Versatility just because of the Legendary and Setitem stats. Some items might be hard to get in good itemlevels especially if your raiding Mythic it might be easier to find something else with much higher itemlvl, but for Itemlvl 890 items im sure this is pretty close to "BiS"

talents=3213322
spec=outlaw
artifact=44:0:0:0:0:1052:1:1053:1:1054:1:1055:1:1056:1:1057:1:1058:1:1059:3:1060:3:1061:3:1062:3:1063:3:1064:3:1065:3:1066:3:1067:3:1348:1:1385:20

head=,id=139204,bonus_id=1512:1806
neck=,id=141696,enchant_id=5439,bonus_id=1805/1512/3337
shoulder=,id=138338,bonus_id=3516
back=,id=138371,enchant_id=5435,bonus_id=3516
chest=,id=142203,bonus_id=3454/1487/3337
wrist=,id=137099,bonus_id=3530
hands=,id=138329,bonus_id=3516
waist=,id=140858,bonus_id=1487:3444
legs=,id=138335,bonus_id=3516
feet=,id=134369,bonus_id=1552:3412
finger1=,id=137049,enchant_id=5430,gem_id=130247,bonus_id=3530
finger2=,id=140906,enchant_id=5430,bonus_id=3516
trinket1=,id=140806,bonus_id=3516
trinket2=,id=142167,bonus_id=3516
main_hand=,id=128872,bonus_id=742,relic_id=3509:1542:3337/1512:1806/1542:1826,gem_id=137412/139261/137493/0
off_hand=,id=134552,relic_id=0/0,gem_id=0/0/0/0

[Sephiroso]

Thanks for your answer, I use SnD too, not sure why but feel better to me.

I'm not sure either, because even without rerolling optimally, RtB is still better than SnD. Even more so the case in fights with adds...which is like every Nighthold Fight.

[jtstormrage]

How awful that we are reduced to burning our cps in the hope that RNG gives us one of 6 buffs.

[nicknite1]

I'm not sure either, because even without rerolling optimally, RtB is still better than SnD. Even more so the case in fights with adds...which is like every Nighthold Fight.

This is what originally drove me from Outlaw and to rolling Sub. I love Sub and its huge numbers but there's always been something about Combat/Outlaw that pulled me in. RtB is just WAY too RNG for my taste which is why I chose SnD. Is it optimal? Not at all, and I know that. But having a large mastery build from playing Sub up until 2 days ago plus the fact it's guaranteed DPS as opposed to a CHANCE to be a god for a few seconds.

[Norica]

This is what originally drove me from Outlaw and to rolling Sub. I love Sub and its huge numbers but there's always been something about Combat/Outlaw that pulled me in. RtB is just WAY too RNG for my taste which is why I chose SnD. Is it optimal? Not at all, and I know that. But having a large mastery build from playing Sub up until 2 days ago plus the fact it's guaranteed DPS as opposed to a CHANCE to be a god for a few seconds.

Just like you, I think SnD isnt the best option but it give us a stable damage, isnt high as 3/6 dices or lower like 1 dice (non TB ofc) I think RtB has a big damabe variable, or its too low, or too high. Maybe im wrong, but that´s what i feel using it.

Sry for my english

N.

[Xanatu]

Thoughts so far? I'm through 9/10H. Mixed bag. Usual issues. The RNG feels as strong as ever, although I don't have tier so I can't say if that helps. Getting big damage pulls reallllllly depends on having good buffs up for add phases; otherwise you just get dominated by every other class. It no longer feels like I'm rolling to pull ahead, I'm just rolling to not fall behind. Again, very early in the tier. Outlaw doesn't feel super great though. Surprisingly, the tunnel ST (Krosus) was actually my top fight.

[Khobahi]

Thoughts so far? I'm through 9/10H. Mixed bag. Usual issues. The RNG feels as strong as ever, although I don't have tier so I can't say if that helps. Getting big damage pulls reallllllly depends on having good buffs up for add phases; otherwise you just get dominated by every other class. It no longer feels like I'm rolling to pull ahead, I'm just rolling to not fall behind. Again, very early in the tier. Outlaw doesn't feel super great though. Surprisingly, the tunnel ST (Krosus) was actually my top fight.

I have felt the same thing, Rolling big only allows me to keep up now where as if i used to string up even a couple 3 buffs in a row i was competing if not top before.

[Lustrick]

Still need another piece for 2pc bonus so nothing new. 5/10 in heroic NH - I do like how there's a mix of bosses that are add focused.

[Deleted]

Thoughts so far? I'm through 9/10H. Mixed bag. Usual issues. The RNG feels as strong as ever, although I don't have tier so I can't say if that helps. Getting big damage pulls reallllllly depends on having good buffs up for add phases; otherwise you just get dominated by every other class. It no longer feels like I'm rolling to pull ahead, I'm just rolling to not fall behind. Again, very early in the tier. Outlaw doesn't feel super great though. Surprisingly, the tunnel ST (Krosus) was actually my top fight.

Dont know, Cinidaria feels sick on some fights 7%+ Damage. Also need to practise timings longer then just one ID. I felt missing some good oportunities to deal great damage. But overall this content looks to be made for outlaw to me.

[Xanatu]

Dont know, Cinidaria feels sick on some fights 7%+ Damage. Also need to practise timings longer then just one ID. I felt missing some good oportunities to deal great damage. But overall this content looks to be made for outlaw to me.

Yeah, fights like Elisande where she resets her HP are very cool. I think Botanist on M also resets to 100%? And priority 100% hp add fights. We do need more raids to get used to Nighthold but at the same time, a lot of other specs did just fine on DPS while "learning" this week. I think Outlaw has to work a lot harder just to keep up at the moment.

[Sephiroso]

Thoughts so far? I'm through 9/10H. Mixed bag. Usual issues. The RNG feels as strong as ever, although I don't have tier so I can't say if that helps. Getting big damage pulls reallllllly depends on having good buffs up for add phases; otherwise you just get dominated by every other class. It no longer feels like I'm rolling to pull ahead, I'm just rolling to not fall behind. Again, very early in the tier. Outlaw doesn't feel super great though. Surprisingly, the tunnel ST (Krosus) was actually my top fight.

Interestingly enough i've had similar experiences. Did better on ST fights than i did cleave fights(like Skorpyron). The sentiment you laid out describes how i feel about outlaw perfectly. In EN, i was rolling to get ahead. I got good buffs? I was number 1. In NH, I get good buffs? I'll be in up there, but not guaranteed number 1.

I still am trying to understand blizzard's decision on nerfing BF. If anything, it needed a buff. But whatever.