What exactly did he mean with the "not just go-go-go, focus on combat"?

[Deleted]

Did anyone get that? It was so vague. I mean, isn't "go-go-go" also a form of combat?

[enak101]

Focus on core dungeon gameplay instead of rushing like a typical challenge mode right now, but I don't see how rushing can be a bad thing when there is a timer, if you have the skill to handle bigger pulls with lots of stuns.

[Rhoe]

They even gave the example of mobs enraging doing double damage when they reach 30% hp, so you'd have to focus one at a time or risk the tank dying. Presumably there's also spells to be interrupted and fire to not stand in.

[Deleted]

They even gave the example of mobs enraging doing double damage when they reach 30% hp, so you'd have to focus one at a time or risk the tank dying. Presumably there's also spells to be interrupted and fire to not stand in.

Yes. However, what's confusing is that we already have different mob types that do those kinds of things just because they are different and do different things when they are fought. And since that 'challenge mode stone' already has a timer anyway, I don't see the huge difference.

It is though an interesting difference that the control item has universal triggers.

In a sense it might make it easier to "lead" since it'd be difficulty > reading.

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Focus on core dungeon gameplay instead of rushing like a typical challenge mode right now, but I don't see how rushing can be a bad thing when there is a timer, if you have the skill to handle bigger pulls with lots of stuns.

It appears that in practical terms the biggest difference might be to make it easier to "lead" or prepare for it. For instance you won't have to know what each of those obscure adds in Iskar do, you would just know ALL mobs do something. Then it would be a "difficulty > reading about it" thing.

Some would object I'm sure, they like reading and studying fights.

[PosPosPos]

They even gave the example of mobs enraging doing double damage when they reach 30% hp, so you'd have to focus one at a time or risk the tank dying. Presumably there's also spells to be interrupted and fire to not stand in.

Yeah, so basically, it's going to end up as "pop cds right as the adds enrage" instead of "pop cds as we engage".

Can't see any functional difference tbh.

[ryklin]

well the times in this new version won't be recorded and he supposedly claimed they'd be around current silver, meaning your main concern should be to just not wipe and clear it out and advance to the next difficulty, and I believe their intent is to push players to try and just smash their heads against it until they get to the point where they just can't kill the enemies efficiently or constantly die, kinda' diablo 3 rifts

so the difficulty will be in pressing it to the point that the that silver mode timer will be become an issue because the mobs will be that powerful and from there it'll be about optimizing dps, cc, and interrupts like it is now

so assuming you're going for the top, they'll be much harder and much longer, possibly with more evasion stacking tanking and kiting with aoes at the highest levels

honestly I could see it becoming a more troubling schedule commitment than raiding considering a "current silver timer" can almost be an hour

I think it's an interesting idea though to base it around making a more powerful normal dungeon than chain-pulling, as we'll be looking to just clear it at a lenient rate, and supposedly time will be just be limited, not a race with pat rng and making the next elevator timer (fuck you msp)

and this will all award gear now too

I like the idea from a progressing standpoint to constantly throw yourselves at tougher and rougher dungeons with 4 friends until you're just dying flat-out

however, I mean I also really enjoyed the whole scene of doing carries for a couple hours with 2 or 3 friends, but I think I'd enjoy both

I never really liked going beyond server bests anyways and I'm not on a top server, but I think the people that like that competition will be a bit bummed as there was a lot more strategy and making a science to that

@pospospos
it probably won't even be pop cd's at end outside of bosses, it'll probably just be use normal aoe-cc when this ability happens just like it's been in CMs since mop

[Deleted]

Can't see any functional difference tbh.

It might be an effort to make it easier to form a strategy without research. Instead of learning some packs or bosses have different abilities, ALL of them would have some major abilities from the stone. If that is true some major objections might come around such as "wouldn't that make it easier for everyone so the end result would be that competition would still rely on those that do something with more research anyway?" or "I like that the game needs more research".

If that is the case I probably prefer it, though it might make it dull. I mean every single mob pack would be very similar. Then again one might say, aren't most mob packs similar on a same dungeon (not always)?

They could always switch abilities randomly each pack and make it very obvious what changed of course, e.g. a UI thing popping above a pack with "this pack now has bloodlust" or "this pack will enrage at 30%".

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well the times in this new version won't be recorded

I think he said though that time might still run out and break the stone.

Hrm, unless he meant "only if you wipe".

That could be considered unfair though..

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It's probably better though. I mean we don't have timers in raiding. It would be annoying.


OK, enrage etc., but not such universally important timers at least per fight or +trash.

[facerollin]

Every single one of these grifts are still going to be mass pulled and aoe'd down, irregardless or corpse explosions or enrages, how can you be so disconnected from what decent players are capable of.

[Nitros14]

Focus on difficulty instead of timers is nice. If silver is the timer and going faster than that doesn't matter that really helps. Might see much more interest in challenge mode.

[Deleted]

Every single one of these grifts are still going to be mass pulled and aoe'd down, irregardless or corpse explosions or enrages, how can you be so disconnected from what decent players are capable of.

That's incorrect. Decent players might single target instead of AOEing as in the Presenter's example. He isn't just some dude, he was running Elitist Jerks at its heights.

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Focus on difficulty instead of timers is nice. If silver is the timer and going faster than that doesn't matter that really helps. Might see much more interest in challenge mode.

Indeed, for example it would be annoying if Mythic raiding was easier on the basis, but harder to complete because it would wipe on a timer faster. They could have both of course, a timer could still be recorded. But they could make Gold much harder to do than it is now.

That way we get the best of both worlds. "Gold" (or whatever new name it gets) becomes harder than it is now, but people could still brag about timers if they choose to.

[Deleted]

That's incorrect. Decent players might single target instead of AOEing as in the Presenter's example. He isn't just some dude, he was running Elitist Jerks at its heights.

Compare your average CM run 9 months ago to how it's done today, quite a big difference. It's an interesting concept but you'll have to remember this is for everyone not just mythic players, it will be "easy" until you reach levels where abilities one shots people. This is just like Diablo and scaling the mobs to infinity doesn't make fun gameplay imo, I will remain sceptic for now.

[Deleted]

Compare your average CM run 9 months ago to how it's done today

Did they nerf it/buffed the players? I haven't done CM since the first tier, when gear from it was needed.

[Supercool]

The thing about a CM is that if you're going for gold and you wipe, you might just reset it and try again.

This new version won't be resettable, so you're going to focus on not wiping ever as your top priority (unless you're in spitting distance of the end and the timer is just about to run out).

[huth]

Yeah, so basically, it's going to end up as "pop cds right as the adds enrage" instead of "pop cds as we engage".

Can't see any functional difference tbh.

You don't have that many CDs. It affects every mob in the entire dungeon.

[Deleted]

so you're going to focus on not wiping ever

Did they say clearly that? I think I heard "the stone might still break" but I don't recall how exactly. Time based or wipes based?

[Glorious Leader]

They want you to make thoughtful decisions about what you engage. Is their a patrol? Can you skip that patrol? If not what has tk be ccd and what has to die asap?

[miDnight77]

Focus on core dungeon gameplay instead of rushing like a typical challenge mode right now, but I don't see how rushing can be a bad thing when there is a timer, if you have the skill to handle bigger pulls with lots of stuns.

Well but at current state CM doesn't feels like doing dungeons anymore or playing against core dungeon mechanics, but "just" playing against a timer. There is no challenge created by the content of the dungeon itself but only by adding the timer. This system (and I hope they'll do a good job with it) is about letting dungeons and the game play of how dungeons normally play out, be relevant and challenging for longer time. The Riftke.. erm *cough* sorry Dungeon Keys having a level up mechanic controlled by time, will still cater to the Players who like the challenge of beating the dungeon under time pressure. Adding difficulties like the introduced berserk or the over time AoE dmg are nice Ideas to keep the dungeons challenging as well.

Also was this flex loot and flex difficulty means is, that it'll be a lot easier to introduce even more dungeons to the add in later patch with new lategame zones and story lines.

For the timer again. I think its the right direction to make dungeons not challenging by just scale you down and adding a timer, but adding threats and mechanics to the dungeon and at the possibility of a Timer ontop of it.

[mauserr]

They said the timers are going to be much more lenient, like the current Silver CM timer is. Means you don't have to rush like a madman trying to acomplish a 100% mistake-free run.

[Deleted]

Well but at current state CM doesn't feels like doing dungeons anymore or playing against core dungeon mechanics, but "just" playing against a timer. There is no challenge created by the content of the dungeon itself but only by adding the timer.

I don't get what you mean. Trash have mechanics. Bosses have mechanics.

[Gsara]

Have any of you ever done greater rifts in D3? Its exactly the same system. You get a keystone, do the dungeon and if you make the time you upgrade the keystone to do a higher level scaled up version of the dungeon. This can go on and on until you can t make the time with the gear you have and will need to farm more gear to go higher.