Legion - Subtlety discussion

[T18Z]

Death from Above is simming slightly higher than Master of Shadows on a Patchwerk-style fight as a 889 Rogue. Gonna try a few runs with it and report back how it feels.

Be aware you can't use DfA with Weaponmaster (despite it simming higher than Master of Sub) as it bugs out whenever it double procs and causes evis to not land, so I don't really think it's worth it personally.

[Rixan]

Looks like Anticipation is DPS neutral with Deeper Stratagem for me at the moment with Boots and Bracers.

It is an 9K dps loss with Boots and Ravenholt ring.
Weapon master is still 5K ahead of MoSub as well.

Interesting times ahead, but for the moment I'll be sticking with my current build, and gear until Nighthold tier sets it seems.

Edit: I'm going to need to get energetic stabbing relics again.... on the world boss I barely managed 403K, and on LFR I'm behind as well.

Dreading the raid tonight where I could push over 650K on Cenarius.
I'm just constantly energy starved now.

I think with the four piece it'll be guaranteed weapon master and anticipation

[Valentyn]

I think with the four piece it'll be guaranteed weapon master and anticipation

I think so as well, we'll be getting a lot more combo points; and wouldn't want to waste them.

As it stands the old setup is still the best; and despite them buffing Gloomblade...it's still junk compared to the other two.

[twils55]

I'm actually quite curious if the devs or any blizzard employee has made comments about rogues during the ptr testing? I've been searching and been unable to find any post from the concerning sub rogues. I understand the nerf to the boots, but it seems that it was quite harsh when a lot of people are losing 60k+ dps lol.

[Rixan]

I'm actually quite curious if the devs or any blizzard employee has made comments about rogues during the ptr testing? I've been searching and been unable to find any post from the concerning sub rogues. I understand the nerf to the boots, but it seems that it was quite harsh when a lot of people are losing 60k+ dps lol.

I don't think anyone is actually losing that amount of DPS - simc seems to overvalue them

Would like to hear from boots users to see what the actual in game disparity is

[Valentyn]

I don't think anyone is actually losing that amount of DPS - simc seems to overvalue them

Would like to hear from boots users to see what the actual in game disparity is

I just did LFR Cenarius, and did 498K dps, used proper Hero, and two old war pots. My last Cenarius HC parse was 653K.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

I have the boots, and ring; also no energetic stabbing relics.
So the nerf to Master of Sub, boots, ring, and changes to secondary stats really hit me hard.

Going to have to get some energetic stabbing relics. I have two gutrippers, and a precision strike at the moment.

[Diyiez]

Have we ever done the math on triple Shadow Blades relic, 4 piece set bonus, new trinket and legendary bracers? Feel like it could be a decent combination.

[guurb]

Just looted new spalders ... http://imgur.com/a/NNt1w
sim at 800k

[Itasz]

Legendary boots feel terrible now. simulations went down 30k and i'm back to sometimes not getting all 5 globals during shadow dance due to bad rng. Chances are ring bracers shoulders are better at least. I think the nerf was justified don't get me wrong. But i think it would be nice if it was on par with other legendaries instead of getting nerfed to worse

[Rixan]

lol that's great

I'm guessing simc doesn't know it doesn't work with shadowdance?

[elfporn]

I'm so glad that ring isn't BiS anymore. Happy to get rid of it since it had so much haste on it. Bracer + cloak is amazing =D

it's likely not BiS anymore (the ring) but it is still doing ~5% of my damage as sub, which is pretty close to before. Seems like the nerf to the ring was just to offset the damage aura buff. I don't have any SS damage relics.

- - - Updated - - -

I just did LFR Cenarius, and did 498K dps, used proper Hero, and two old war pots. My last Cenarius HC parse was 653K.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

I have the boots, and ring; also no energetic stabbing relics.
So the nerf to Master of Sub, boots, ring, and changes to secondary stats really hit me hard.

Going to have to get some energetic stabbing relics. I have two gutrippers, and a precision strike at the moment.

You should be able to easily break 500k. I use ring/belt and did 518k on cenarius last night, not amazing, made some mistakes. i use two evisc crit relics and 1 energetic stabbing.

Also, propo will likely work better for us. Lined up with SB. Particularly for those with bracers that can put up 1min of SB. And especially on shorter fights.

- - - Updated - - -

Have we ever done the math on triple Shadow Blades relic, 4 piece set bonus, new trinket and legendary bracers? Feel like it could be a decent combination.

I've been considering the SB relics or the shadow tech relics. Anticipation+4p+trinket+bracers is a badass combo and the two traits mentioned would both increase CP gen. Anticipation will really let us take advantage.(now that it's 10cp again)

- - - Updated - - -

Legendary boots feel terrible now. simulations went down 30k and i'm back to sometimes not getting all 5 globals during shadow dance due to bad rng. Chances are ring bracers shoulders are better at least. I think the nerf was justified don't get me wrong. But i think it would be nice if it was on par with other legendaries instead of getting nerfed to worse

With boots you should have zero problems getting 4ss 1 evisc every single time, even when refreshing SoD. Pool to 70.

[shaunika123]

With boots you should have zero problems getting 4ss 1 evisc every single time, even when refreshing SoD. Pool to 70.

not rly

the boots only give 16 extra energy unless you get 1-2 ES procs you wont SoD

[Dalamian]

Death from Above is simming slightly higher than Master of Shadows on a Patchwerk-style fight as a 889 Rogue. Gonna try a few runs with it and report back how it feels.

Even at my crappy 830 iLvl death from above sims higher than master of shadows

[Critical92]

Did you guys lost any secondary stats?
Mine went all down a little bit.
Mastery -2-3%
Versa -2-3%
Haste lost 0.5%
but Crit got 8% down. I know the 5% nerf, but 3% on top?
I have exactly the same gear pre 7.1.5.

[Itasz]

as if though i dont pool to 70 before i use sd? Every now and then you just dont get energetic stabbing procs and run out of energy before shadow dance is over. its not that unlikely to happend and does disallow you to get ever gcd off.

[Axaion]

Would be nice if they changed Energetic Stabbing to always give energy on cheap shot and shadowstrike, but change it to.. 2/4/6/7/8/9 or something to balance it out a bit.

But knowing blizzard this is a major task and needs an expansion in itself.

[elfporn]

as if though i dont pool to 70 before i use sd? Every now and then you just dont get energetic stabbing procs and run out of energy before shadow dance is over. its not that unlikely to happend and does disallow you to get ever gcd off.

I wasn't trying to offend, with the nerf to boots those people using them have to micromanage energy a lot more. You should be able to fill every gcd for each dance, and when you get an energetic stabbing proc, refresh SoD.

I don't have boots and i have no issues, i don't always fill all 5 gcd's when i need to refresh SoD.

[Valentyn]

You should be able to easily break 500k. I use ring/belt and did 518k on cenarius last night, not amazing, made some mistakes. i use two evisc crit relics and 1 energetic stabbing.

Also, propo will likely work better for us. Lined up with SB. Particularly for those with bracers that can put up 1min of SB. And especially on shorter fights.

Today's parse for HC Cenarius 571K with the guild, and going ham. Still 90K less than the week before. I also sim worse as well.
Cannot wait to get my 4set with the nighthold trinket, so I can just use bracers and anticipation.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...kings&fight=20

I hope I get a decent energetic stabbing proc relic soon; should help quite a bit.

[elfporn]

Today's parse for HC Cenarius 571K with the guild, and going ham. Still 90K less than the week before. I also sim worse as well.
Cannot wait to get my 4set with the nighthold trinket, so I can just use bracers and anticipation.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...kings&fight=20

I hope I get a decent energetic stabbing proc relic soon; should help quite a bit.

Good stuff dude. The rogue i compete against had boots and ring as well, he also had bracers (which he uses now in place of ring) He's seen a similar drop in dps.

He's ahead of me now because of SB uptime from bracers instead of boots.

[Elyzibeth]

lol that's great

I'm guessing simc doesn't know it doesn't work with shadowdance?

Can anyone tell me how the shoulders DO work with Subtlety? I mainly PVP and world quest as sub and would love to know exactly how they work and the best way to utilize them, if I should/can. I will test this when I get home, but if someone can give me a leg up I would appreciate it.

Does it work from stealth and work through your subterfuge and 6 seconds after subterfuge ends? Does it work for only 6 seconds after your first SS from stealth?

I was thinking that for lower mythics that the shoulders and cloak might be really powerful together with Shuriken storm. 200% from stealth, cloak buff, and guaranteed 100% crits...... as long as you can re stealth between packs you'd get huge bursts often?

Legends I have:

Assassin bracers
cloak
belt
shoulders

Any ideas?