Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Deleted]

~40% baseline actually. I have 42.92% dodge chance

Do classes have a baseline evasion chance? Im not aware.

[shaunika123]

Wait, are you just telling me that you rank 99% in sub without any bis leg ?? WTH ?

none of which he listed is the actual BIS on that fight tho, it's the cloak :P

Do classes have a baseline evasion chance? Im not aware.

yes but you can only see it with addons/scripts

[Shivers1]

(removed) shadow's whisper - deepening shadows reduces the remaining cooldown on shadow dance by an additional 1 sec per combo point spent.
(New) shadow's whisper - shadow techniques also grant you 5 energy.

wake me up inside
can't wake up inside

[mcrx]

Do classes have a baseline evasion chance? Im not aware.

well i think i just interpret it wrong. what i meant by my baseline was including the traits. lol

[Jaronicity]

Ok I have some questions that go into deep playstyle for Sub:
1- I swapped to Master of Subtelty cause it sims higher. But how exactly am I supposed to handle the duration. Do I wait for MaOS to drop off completely before activating SD again and thus doing more Backstabs.

I think you probably want to not overlap the buff and pool a bit for your next dance (else BS if you might cap). But not 100% certain.

[Deleted]

Shadow's Whisper (Rank 1) Deepening Shadows reduces the remaining cooldown on Shadow Dance by an additional 1 sec per combo point spent. Shadow Techniques also grant you 5 Energy.

They're fucking with us, right?!
Sure, the old trait probably was too strong. Just make it 1s reduction per 2 CP or something like that then.
But 5 fucking energy on that rng piece of shit passive? Holy fuck. The old trait made the playstyle more fun and more smooth, this is just garbage compared to that.

[elfporn]

They're fucking with us, right?!
Sure, the old trait probably was too strong. Just make it 1s reduction per 2 CP or something like that then.
But 5 fucking energy on that rng piece of shit passive? Holy fuck. The old trait made the playstyle more fun and more smooth, this is just garbage compared to that.

I think youre underestimating how often it procs. 5 energy may be a bit low for a major trait though

[Maelstrom51]

They're fucking with us, right?!
Sure, the old trait probably was too strong. Just make it 1s reduction per 2 CP or something like that then.
But 5 fucking energy on that rng piece of shit passive? Holy fuck. The old trait made the playstyle more fun and more smooth, this is just garbage compared to that.

The old trait trivialized the spec completely because you never ran out of Shadow Dance charges.

[Deleted]

I think youre underestimating how often it procs. 5 energy may be a bit low for a major trait though

Hm? It procced 90 times in a 5 minute Krosus fight, that would be 450 energy. Maybe that's really a lot of procs, but the energy gain would be slightly more than my ES without relics and way smaller than from my boots. Still obviously something good, but it probably shouldn't go live this way (like you said).

It's just that they are already going a long way of alleviating energy problems with the set bonus and the goremaw trait, and the old version made the playstyle very smooth.

The old trait trivialized the spec completely because you never ran out of Shadow Dance charges.

True, that's why I said they should just nerf it. Like: 2CP -> 1s reduction. Or 1CP -> 0.5s reduction. Something like that.

[Maelstrom51]

Hm? It procced 90 times in a 5 minute Krosus fight, that would be 450 energy. Maybe that's really a lot of procs, but the energy gain would be slightly more than my ES without relics and way smaller than from my boots. Still obviously something good, but it probably shouldn't go live this way (like you said).

It's just that they are already going a long way of alleviating energy problems with the set bonus and the goremaw trait, and the old version made the playstyle very smooth.


True, that's why I said they should just nerf it. Like: 2CP -> 1s reduction. Or 1CP -> 0.5s reduction. Something like that.

I honestly feel that anything more than live would be too high. We already have very high uptime on Shadow Dance.

[Jaronicity]

Picked up DoS. How best to utilize it with legendary shoulders/in an opener? I was mostly just using it when I was low on energy and wouldn't cap CP from ST procs.

[Deleted]

Picked up DoS. How best to utilize it with legendary shoulders/in an opener? I was mostly just using it when I was low on energy and wouldn't cap CP from ST procs.

I have been using Won7on rotation and havent found any better. I got ~1.2M dps as my opening DPS and i only got the shoulders as a DPS legendary.
Rotation: Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Mut > Vendetta + Envenom > Kingsbane > Mut > Vanish + Envenom > Mut > Envenom > Mut > Draught > Envenom > Mut > (wait for buffed Garrote to expire) > Garrote > Envenom > Mut to 4/5 CP > Rupture

[ainurr]

I have been using Won7on rotation and havent found any better. I got ~1.2M dps as my opening DPS and i only got the shoulders as a DPS legendary.
Rotation: Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Mut > Vendetta + Envenom > Kingsbane > Mut > Vanish + Envenom > Mut > Envenom > Mut > Draught > Envenom > Mut > (wait for buffed Garrote to expire) > Garrote > Envenom > Mut to 4/5 CP > Rupture

this is the subtlety thread

[Todesbote]

this is the subtlety thread

It's silly but this is a perfect metaphor of how it feels to be a subtlety rogue. Even in the subtlety thread Assa takes over.

[elfporn]

Picked up DoS. How best to utilize it with legendary shoulders/in an opener? I was mostly just using it when I was low on energy and wouldn't cap CP from ST procs.

On the pull you can either make it the first thing you use, or attempt to drain energy and use then. It's tough to fit into our opener because we're mostly energy capped for a good chunk of time if lust is used. If not lust we're still topping out on resources for about 15sec or so.

My advice is to just use it right out of stealth, and SB->SD immediately after, try to fit 1-2 evisc(40% finality if possible) into shoulders buff, throw up NB, SD, setup a 40% finality, and vanish-->blow load.

[Deleted]

this is the subtlety thread

... too many tabs up that the same time... my bad <3

[Jaronicity]

On the pull you can either make it the first thing you use, or attempt to drain energy and use then. It's tough to fit into our opener because we're mostly energy capped for a good chunk of time if lust is used. If not lust we're still topping out on resources for about 15sec or so.

My advice is to just use it right out of stealth, and SB->SD immediately after, try to fit 1-2 evisc(40% finality if possible) into shoulders buff, throw up NB, SD, setup a 40% finality, and vanish-->blow load.

Cheers, man. I will give that a go.

- - - Updated - - -

It's silly but this is a perfect metaphor of how it feels to be a subtlety rogue. Even in the subtlety thread Assa takes over.

I used to play Assassination almost exclusively until WoD and it's still my second highest artifact but since I have an extra 8% damage in my sub wep I stay there for now. Guess that's another strike in how Blizz implemented these artifacts (until 7.2 at least). Always will have a soft spot for it since the days of Cold Blood and Overkill and extra damage to humanoids and whatnot....sigh

[Deleted]

Soo, just picked up my rogue in a long, long time, got the worst legendary ever (will of valeera) and now i have doubts on which spec i should play: sub or assa? i dont care about world contenent, just m+ and raid in HC-Myth difficulty, can u pls explain to me a bit? thanks and sorry for the bad englando

[shaunika123]

Soo, just picked up my rogue in a long, long time, got the worst legendary ever (will of valeera) and now i have doubts on which spec i should play: sub or assa? i dont care about world contenent, just m+ and raid in HC-Myth difficulty, can u pls explain to me a bit? thanks and sorry for the bad englando

assa is your safest bet atm
at least till 7.2 it's the definite best spec to play
after that we'Ll see

[shoegazing]

For 12 years Subtlety was one of the premier/iconic PvP specs in WoW

Now in Legion you PvE nerds got your 3x Dance charges and Legion Sub is a complete joke

No Find Weakness windows so no incentives for restealthing, no reason for using hit and run tactics and actually playing like a rogue

Constant access to stuns but limited access to other CCs (gouge, garrote, shiv, etc)

Constant access to stupid teleport ambush

God I hate this spec. Blizzard completely ruined the character that I've been playing for 12 years, and they did it for the sake of you PvE kids.

This once amazing class has been reduced to nothing but a PvE dps rotation

Infracted.