Legion - Subtlety discussion

[upliftin]

Thanks for your answer, I appreciate, I will run some test myself to figure out what is the best right now & we will see after the hotfixes for Tomb

[milkbonez]

So i looked at top parses for 7.2.5 and they are all running shadow focus...i'm sorry i'm not understanding how this overtakes subterfuge as in my own testing i can only fit in 3x shadowstrikes (taking GCD's for finisher into account). Do we just spam SS with shadow focus talent or am i missing something about the playstyle with this talent.

[Critical92]

I asked myself the same. With t19 + blades up i most of the time get 3 to 4 cp. Even without sf the old 4 + 1 is possible with all the energy gains and es procs. Sf + anticipation would make sense but with DeS you have to use a finisher inside dance. I hope someone with more insight can clear things up.

[Won7on]

I think with SF your goal is just to do 3 SS in a Dance. Typically SS Evisc SS SS, or SS SS Evisc SS.

I did find it a bit weird to play Shadow Focus AND Master of Shadows. You'd think you need to pool before Dance, but you get 25 energy over 3 sec AND your abilities cost 25% less, which led to issues with Energy capping. It seems like if you're using SF and MoS (T100), you'll want to pop Dance at around 80 Energy.

But that's just my personal testing. The other option is to switch to DFA, but I'm not sure how good that is.

[Jaronicity]

I was entering dance with 4 points and going ss, finisher, ss, ss. Riff has a preliminary guide up at the moment. At work on my mobile so don't have the link though. I tried 3 builds in raid last night. Dark shadows for the first few, then SF/ES for a bit and also alacrity with subterfuge. All performed within expectations considering I was getting the hang of dancing less and stabbing more.

[Deleted]

The other option is to switch to DFA, but I'm not sure how good that is.

Shoulders + Boots -> use MoS
Shoulders + Vigor Ring -> use DFA

Shoulders + Vigor Ring + DFA is simming the highest (+15k against shoulders+vigor ring+mos | +50k against shoulders+boots+MoS | +60k against shoulders+boots+DFA)

all legendaries compared with ilvl 970

[permp]

Hmm i was raiding today and i realize that Shadow dance does not reset all stacks when wipe =(

On a mid fight wipe on the next pull i was getting 1:30 CD on last charge.

[shaunika123]

Hmm i was raiding today and i realize that Shadow dance does not reset all stacks when wipe =(

On a mid fight wipe on the next pull i was getting 1:30 CD on last charge.

yeah, it's a good idea to start collectign stacks when you know you're gonna wipe, as a rogue you wont be the first to die probably anyway

[mcrx]

Hmm i was raiding today and i realize that Shadow dance does not reset all stacks when wipe =(

On a mid fight wipe on the next pull i was getting 1:30 CD on last charge.

the stacks never reset since the beginning of Legion. Nothing changes

[Won7on]

So how good is CoF going to be, going into ToS? Because currently it seems to be reducing SBlades to about ~1:40, which is incredibly convenient with a 1:30 Vanish and a 0:30 Symbols CD. You can basically sync everything up every ~1:30-1:40 or so for a big burst period. I'm gonna be loath to get rid of this CoF if there are better trinkets in Tomb.

[Raidenwrath]

I didn't sim anything but since higher forged CoF only has an agility gain while the desired effect stays the same, I'd say that we will be equipping that trinket for a long time.

[Deleted]

Currently I would run CoF and EoE as sub.

[Won7on]

One more question: If the T19 2pc + T20 4pc does happen, which T19 pieces to wear? Head + Cloak?

[Puffah]

So how good is CoF going to be, going into ToS? Because currently it seems to be reducing SBlades to about ~1:40, which is incredibly convenient with a 1:30 Vanish and a 0:30 Symbols CD. You can basically sync everything up every ~1:30-1:40 or so for a big burst period. I'm gonna be loath to get rid of this CoF if there are better trinkets in Tomb.

https://ravenholdt-tc.github.io/trinkets_sub_t19.html

A good CoF still appears to top the sim meters

[Won7on]

https://ravenholdt-tc.github.io/trinkets_sub_t19.html

A good CoF still appears to top the sim meters

900 CoF > 955 anything from ToS. Absurd.

I guess those are NH T19M sims, technically, but I guess the T20 set bonus won't really change anything.

[Raidenwrath]

The value should drop quite significantly when you don't equip the bracers, though.

[Deleted]

Credit for this tip goes to someone else who's name I've forgotten (Edit: was Raidenwrath):

If you're taking DfA and Deep Shadow you can cast DfA and then when you land pop a Shadow Dance charge before the Evis casts.

You'll still be able to fit in a rotation of SS -> SS -> Evis -> SS because the first SS can be cast immediately after DfA's Evis lands.

This way you can squeeze 2 Evis and 3 SS into one Shadow Dance.


Also, go do Tichondrius and ask your tanks to keep the blobs at the boss, holy balls it's fun to hit between 2-12 mill every 2 seconds .

[Raidenwrath]

Well, yeah, that was me
Actually, I secretly hoped noone would remember and it flies under the radar of Blizzard.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post45610529

[howolowitz]

I just ran a sim on askmrrobot. It suggests that i should just use 2 set bonus from doomblade. Is this a bug or is the 4 set just not so strong for sub right now? I have some other pieces that are other ilvl

[milkbonez]

I think with SF your goal is just to do 3 SS in a Dance. Typically SS Evisc SS SS, or SS SS Evisc SS.

I did find it a bit weird to play Shadow Focus AND Master of Shadows. You'd think you need to pool before Dance, but you get 25 energy over 3 sec AND your abilities cost 25% less, which led to issues with Energy capping. It seems like if you're using SF and MoS (T100), you'll want to pop Dance at around 80 Energy.

But that's just my personal testing. The other option is to switch to DFA, but I'm not sure how good that is.

I'm still a bit confused, as one talent let's us do more 4x SS, improves our vanish which also helps with our leggo shoulders, while the other we're are definitely doing less SS's and not even doing more damage or anything. I'm very open to the possibility that i'm wrong here, if someone could just explain how shadow focus is better than subterfuge.