Legion - Subtlety discussion

[satori sartori]

How accurate is the raidbots sub sim?
Should I be doing anywhere close to that number in fights like Goroth?

[Critical92]

The sims are ST with only 1 boss and you are always at the boss. In a real world you can be unlucky and have to move a lot and that costs dps.
Sims are more like a guideline what is best. If you want dps numbers which reflect more real dps, try to sim with light/heavy movement.

[Deleted]

Looks like MFD build pulls ahead or more less the same.

Giving that MFD is much easier to execute, people might gain DPS from it.

[satori sartori]

I'm having trouble maintain my dps during moments of slow no shadow blades periods in single target fights, I think I'm doing everything right as far as the shadow dance windows, keeping nightblade up without overwriting finality, and proper evicerates, my opener is really good, but I'm not doing anywhere close to the sim dps on 5 min ST fights with 100% boss uptime.
Feels like I'm just spamming backstab and making cp at the speed of a potato.
only have set 2 T20 and bracers, no shoulders.

[shaunika123]

I'm having trouble maintain my dps during moments of slow no shadow blades periods in single target fights, I think I'm doing everything right as far as the shadow dance windows, keeping nightblade up without overwriting finality, and proper evicerates, my opener is really good, but I'm not doing anywhere close to the sim dps on 5 min ST fights with 100% boss uptime.
Feels like I'm just spamming backstab and making cp at the speed of a potato.
only have set 2 T20 and bracers, no shoulders.

you cant really screw up your low dps phase really just make sure not to just spam backstab but pool energy every time so you dont waste techniques procs
sub is about properly executing every SoD

if you set up those correctly then you cant screw up much else
just make sure you're behind the target

link a log then i can tell you if you're doing anything wrong

[Won7on]

Looks like MFD build pulls ahead or more less the same.

What are you using as the basis for this claim?

[Deleted]

I guess he references to "ravenholdt-tc.github.io"

[Umbrex]

Holy fuck boys ...4-set and specter is the new 1.5 sin with DoS

Plays so fucking nice and everything lines up

[Deleted]

What are you using as the basis for this claim?

Simcraft site and raidbots.com. Warcraftlogs doesnt show any high rankers(maybe not yet).

- - - Updated - - -

I guess he references to "ravenholdt-tc.github.io"

Tihihih, yeah! Yeah! Hihihi.

[Deleted]

Weaponmaster Your abilities have a 6% 100% chance to hit the target twice each time they deal damage. Subtlety Rogue - Level 15 Talent.

100% chance on ptr oO. I guess its a typo and its only 10%

[Deleted]

100% chance on ptr oO. I guess its a typo and its only 10%

its not typo but likely not intended (its 100% on ptr).

[RobertoCarlos]

its not typo but likely not intended (its 100% on ptr).

maybe it is intended to help them find the bugs with it

[Won7on]

What is the non-shoulder usage of Vanish? Do you just... use it for a single Shadowstrike? It's sad how game-changing that single Legendary is.

[Deleted]

What is the non-shoulder usage of Vanish? Do you just... use it for a single Shadowstrike? It's sad how game-changing that single Legendary is.

As sad as it sounds, yes, you just get a free Shadowstrike. Well mate, i got my shoulders as my last legendary at the end of Nighthold raiding as Sin. I remember that moment when i had already all legendaries but shoulders and valeera and it basically was a fifty fifty chance to get shoulders and you can guess what i got, was so frustrating. Kinda same with Sub now, fifty fifty for bracers but i have a sense of foreboding.

[Deleted]

Question (ST situation): Do you always save 1 Shadow Dance for the Symbols of Death -> Death from Above combo? So that you can use SD inside the DfA animation? Because simcraft - for example - does use SD on cooldown (together with Shadowstrike in ST / or Shuriken Stom in AoE).

And if you save SD in ST, would you do the same in AoE situations (3+ targets)? Or better use it off cooldown with Shuriken Stom?

[Deleted]

Question (ST situation): Do you always save 1 Shadow Dance for the Symbols of Death from Above combo? So that you can use SD inside the DfA animation? Because simcraft - for example - does use SD on cooldown (together with Shadowstrike in ST / or Shuriken Stom in AoE).

And if you save SD in ST, would you do the same in AoE situations (3+ targets)? Or better use it off cooldown with Shuriken Stom?

You want to use ShD always with SoD and DfA, so yeah basically you wait for ShD to come off cooldown and then you go for your bust. But it still depends on various situations like boss hp, adds, heavy movement and so on. You can consider it as a rule, but always make your decisions situation-wise.

During AoE you definitely wait for ShD to go full burst mode on adds. In your best scenario, you have a finality evi up, you stack up Shuriken Combo and if everything is up, you pop it all to make your evi hit as hard as songokus dragonball. During ShD you spam shuriken storm and dump your cps with evis on a main target. Depending on how long adds are going to live you might even go for a ShD cylce without SoD/DfA, since they both will be on CD, but you reduce the CD of ShD pretty fast due to shuriken storm and evi spam. And as you see, it again depends on the situation.

[Deleted]

You want to use ShD always with SoD and DfA, so yeah basically you wait for ShD to come off cooldown and then you go for your bust. But it still depends on various situations like boss hp, adds, heavy movement and so on. You can consider it as a rule, but always make your decisions situation-wise.

During AoE you definitely wait for ShD to go full burst mode on adds. In your best scenario, you have a finality evi up, you stack up Shuriken Combo and if everything is up, you pop it all to make your evi hit as hard as songokus dragonball. During ShD you spam shuriken storm and dump your cps with evis on a main target. Depending on how long adds are going to live you might even go for a ShD cylce without SoD/DfA, since they both will be on CD, but you reduce the CD of ShD pretty fast due to shuriken storm and evi spam. And as you see, it again depends on the situation.

Thanks mate =) Helped!

[Deleted]

So hopeful that 100% weaponmaster on PTR means they're fixing WM/DfA bug and want it at 100% to make it easy for all to retest/replicate the bug?

One can dream.

[Won7on]

So, finally got the T20 4p and the playstyle blows. 16-18 seconds Nightblade means it has to be refreshed right before Symbols, but that's really awkward to do when Symbols is on a 25 second CD. Inevitably you either end up delaying Symbols (and making the 4p pretty useless), wasting a decent amount of energy or CP refreshing NB early, or just going into Symbols with <10 seconds on NB left and having to refresh it during the buff.

Maybe I just don't have enough practice yet, but it felt so shitty in raid that I actually went back to my T19 2p + T20 2p. 15 sec NB just doesn't feel realistically playable on boss fights, when there's typically downtime/soaking/target swapping, which all punish you heavily for delaying your combo just a few seconds.

[Deleted]

So, finally got the T20 4p and the playstyle blows. 16-18 seconds Nightblade means it has to be refreshed right before Symbols, but that's really awkward to do when Symbols is on a 25 second CD. Inevitably you either end up delaying Symbols (and making the 4p pretty useless), wasting a decent amount of energy or CP refreshing NB early, or just going into Symbols with <10 seconds on NB left and having to refresh it during the buff.

Maybe I just don't have enough practice yet, but it felt so shitty in raid that I actually went back to my T19 2p + T20 2p. 15 sec NB just doesn't feel realistically playable on boss fights, when there's typically downtime/soaking/target swapping, which all punish you heavily for delaying your combo just a few seconds.

pylle from future switched to 2p T19 and 4p T20 with bracers + vigor ring and did quite well.