Legion - Subtlety discussion

[bofranx]

Is it just me or does Nightblade almost always restore energy from relentless strikes passive and eviscerate hardly ever does?

I'm at a target dummy right now and I think there is a bug preventing Eviscerate from giving energy back...I only get the 40 energy from Nightblade...I invited another Rogue to party and had him try as well.


Every once in a while (maybe 1 in 20?) you will get back 40 energy from a 5cp Eviscerate, but otherwise nothing.

[Deleted]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...xQKvU/preview#

Getting second shuriken before going after akari's soul? why?

[Minka]

to help our bad aoe a bit i think

[Deleted]

I dont know if this thread is the appropiate one to post my leveling impressions in Legion as Sub but here it goes!


Last night I hit 110 leveling exclusively as Subtlety. Overall, Archimonde Trinket makes questing at lightspeed. Even when I was surrounded by a lot of mobs, Shadowstriking them down 1 by 1 was faster than Shuriken Storm/Eviscerate. Also I had Vigor talented to make the most of my Shadow Dances and SS, but will change it to DS since SS is no longer broken. Now, at 110, Im looking forward to Suramar Questline and World Quests, but I fear im going to be veeery slow.


On the other hand, I was wondering: What is the best rotation for multiple targets? I tried: Shuriken Storm in Shadow Dances spam, Shuriken Storm into Nightblade multidotting, Shuriken Storm into Eviscerate... And also, how do you fit in Goremaw Bite in the rotation? I usually use it with low energy and enter Shadow Dance to profit from the Energy Generation.

Overall, very happy with Subtlety, but I recognize that AoE is a problem.

[Koji2k11]

I dont know if this thread is the appropiate one to post my leveling impressions in Legion as Sub but here it goes!


Last night I hit 110 leveling exclusively as Subtlety. Overall, Archimonde Trinket makes questing at lightspeed. Even when I was surrounded by a lot of mobs, Shadowstriking them down 1 by 1 was faster than Shuriken Storm/Eviscerate. Also I had Vigor talented to make the most of my Shadow Dances and SS, but will change it to DS since SS is no longer broken. Now, at 110, Im looking forward to Suramar Questline and World Quests, but I fear im going to be veeery slow.


On the other hand, I was wondering: What is the best rotation for multiple targets? I tried: Shuriken Storm in Shadow Dances spam, Shuriken Storm into Nightblade multidotting, Shuriken Storm into Eviscerate... And also, how do you fit in Goremaw Bite in the rotation? I usually use it with low energy and enter Shadow Dance to profit from the Energy Generation.

Overall, very happy with Subtlety, but I recognize that AoE is a problem.

sub was never good at AOE its a single target spec the go to spec for huge aoe was always Combat/outlaw Assassin had mediocre aoe and decent singletarget looks like nothing changed you still have to pick the spec for AOE instead of skills .....

[Deleted]

sub was never good at AOE its a single target spec the go to spec for huge aoe was always Combat/outlaw Assassin had mediocre aoe and decent singletarget looks like nothing changed you still have to pick the spec for AOE instead of skills .....

First of all, Im not an hardcore player like the majority of this forum. My progression on T18 was 12/13M. That being said, I firmly believe that if you are not on the top 100 race, you can play any spec you want and still contribute to your raid. Even with weak AoE, Subtlety can get 6 points from a Shuriken Storm and focus the priority add/boss while recharging the Shadow Dance stacks very quickly. I did that on Mannoroth while my guildmates focused the Imps down.

My question still stands: how, as Subtlety, can you maximize the DPS you do in a multitarget scenario?

[huerohueroxxx]

Our stat bis are: Agi -> Vers -> Mastery -> Haste -> Crit?

[Minka]

Our stat bis are: Agi -> Vers -> Mastery -> Haste -> Crit?

crit is better than haste

[Minka]

How is it even possible that outlaw is better?

I mean Our sub artifact hast 3 golden traits boosting our dmg, while outlaw only really has greed, the other things are boring and not really good.

Sub has finality, then akkari and nova.

WTF how is that even possible then that Sub doesn't surpass Outlaw at last whith 34 traits?

[Dawon]

I love Sub... I kinda like Outlaw... I hate Assa.... with that said, while leveling the outlaw seems so crazy much better than everything else... I'd prefer to stay sub but if outlaw is that must better in endgame, I have no probs playing that instead (except that I also would like to be pvp-viable, which sub feels better)...

So torn as hell... do I continue as Sub and put my artifact points there or swap to Outlaw.... It's probably been asked before but I'm asking again as more people hit 110 now and started doing "proper" content.... What are you guys doing? Are you staying true to sub or is the outlaw-damage just too tempting?

[lolpve]

I dont know if this thread is the appropiate one to post my leveling impressions in Legion as Sub but here it goes!


Last night I hit 110 leveling exclusively as Subtlety. Overall, Archimonde Trinket makes questing at lightspeed. Even when I was surrounded by a lot of mobs, Shadowstriking them down 1 by 1 was faster than Shuriken Storm/Eviscerate. Also I had Vigor talented to make the most of my Shadow Dances and SS, but will change it to DS since SS is no longer broken. Now, at 110, Im looking forward to Suramar Questline and World Quests, but I fear im going to be veeery slow.


On the other hand, I was wondering: What is the best rotation for multiple targets? I tried: Shuriken Storm in Shadow Dances spam, Shuriken Storm into Nightblade multidotting, Shuriken Storm into Eviscerate... And also, how do you fit in Goremaw Bite in the rotation? I usually use it with low energy and enter Shadow Dance to profit from the Energy Generation.

Overall, very happy with Subtlety, but I recognize that AoE is a problem.

I also levelled as sub with BHTV+vigor and it felt broken in a good way, I redownloaded details and skada to check it wasn't bugged since I was tripling the damage of others in dungeons. Outlaw might be better without access to BHTV, I don't know.

For AoE, I won't use sstorm unless there are 4 or more targets. I haven't worked out the precise math but I think sstrike with multi-nightblade is better with 3 or fewer targets since it is doing about 4 times the damage of storm for me. But if you are trying to recharge dances then it's better to use storm with fewer targets.

How is it even possible that outlaw is better?

I mean Our sub artifact hast 3 golden traits boosting our dmg, while outlaw only really has greed, the other things are boring and not really good.

Sub has finality, then akkari and nova.

WTF how is that even possible then that Sub doesn't surpass Outlaw at last whith 34 traits?

From what I've read, there's generally a consensus that sub scales the best due to usefulness of mastery and artifact traits. So probably it will be the go-to single target spec for endgame.

[minteK917]

From what I've read, there's generally a consensus that sub scales the best due to usefulness of mastery and artifact traits. So probably it will be the go-to single target spec for endgame.

Consensus where? According to all the math on the rogue discord this is untrue. Outlaw scales better. Outlaw mastery gets buffed hard in the artifact. Outlaw loves all the secondary stats almost equal, so you can never stack only one.

[lolpve]

Consensus where? According to all the math on the rogue discord this is untrue. Outlaw scales better. Outlaw mastery gets buffed hard in the artifact. Outlaw loves all the secondary stats almost equal, so you can never stack only one.

It was the consensus pretty much everywhere a few weeks back but I don't know how the last round of changes affected things.

[minteK917]

It was the consensus pretty much everywhere a few weeks back but I don't know how the last round of changes affected things.

Sounds like 2 months ago stats.

[Deleted]

Is our stat priority really Agi > vers > mastery > crit > haste?

It just seems weird. Even when I was specced into Vigor and Master of Shadows against dungeon bosses (so mostly shadowdance burst) I still had more than 50% damage done with finishers. I just specced into Deeper Stratagem and Marked for Death so it's gonna be even higher now. Why makes versatility so great over mastery?

[Valek]

I Agree.

I thought our main stat was Mastery. I understand Agil being most important, but I dont really know why people are saying Vers is better than Mastery and Crit.

IMO Agil>Mastery>Crit

I am just coming back to the game after a year break, so it would be greatly appreciated if someone could explain the stat priority for a Sub Rogue a little better.

Thank you so much!

[ymirsson]

I Agree.

I thought our main stat was Mastery. I understand Agil being most important, but I dont really know why people are saying Vers is better than Mastery and Crit.

IMO Agil>Mastery>Crit

I am just coming back to the game after a year break, so it would be greatly appreciated if someone could explain the stat priority for a Sub Rogue a little better.

Thank you so much!

Why do you say that vers is not better?

[Valek]

Why do you say that vers is not better?

I just think that having a huge increase to your fnishers is better than having smaller increase to all damage.

Please know that I am not saying that I am right. That was the point of me asking for help.

I just want to have someone, who didnt take a break for the last 14 months, explain to me what the stat priority is and why.

Any kind of info would be great!!

Thanks!

[Deleted]

Dude it's been discussed for months now. Go read the previous pages if you need explanations

[FenrizZJ]

so I got the keys from the vault yesterday. i'm told i can get an artifact skin from the burial troves? used 2 keys didn't have any luck. anyone got any tips for this place? I got wrecked by some fire traps.