No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Lumineus]

Something is definitely going on with population lately, although part of it might just be Blizz adding a ton of capacity to cover the Ultimate Movie Edition fallout. Seems a mite early for that, though. And by "something" I mean the density classifications are diving hard. A lot of realms that were formerly Medium-High are now Low, Area52 went from Full to Medium and even Tich and Stormrage are only High.

[rda]

Something is definitely going on with population lately, although part of it might just be Blizz adding a ton of capacity to cover the Ultimate Movie Edition fallout. Seems a mite early for that, though. And by "something" I mean the density classifications are diving hard. A lot of realms that were formerly Medium-High are now Low, Area52 went from Full to Medium and even Tich and Stormrage are only High.

Yes, that's them adding capacity, but there's something else, too - the servers seem to really be what we'd call empty back in the day. A big server is like a medium server now *by how many are there*, and that's accounting for end of expansion slowness.

(PS: I guess they will be joining servers again after Legion peaks and starts going down. Otherwise it's going to be very empty.)

[Connll]

(PS: I guess they will be joining servers again after Legion peaks and starts going down. Otherwise it's going to be very empty.)

there is little doubt about that.

WoD peaked at 10 millions, and, by the time they did their last report, was at 5,5. It is not unreasonable to guess that Legion won´t go past 7 million, and possibly shrink to 4 or less millions in 2-3 months after launch.

If they don´t make the world, at the very least, appear to be populated, chances are high that people will leave even faster, due to the difficulties of doing group content in low-pop servers.

[quras]

Yes, that's them adding capacity, SNIP...

That always struck me as an odd statment.

They had servers that were supporting around 10 million people.

Blizzard loses somewhere is the number of 6 million + gamers.

When population of servers is brought up, blizzard says they are increasing the capacity of servers. Seems odd.

Lose 6 million people but up the server capacity? For what reason? They sure as hell are not crowded.

[Sicarius87]

You're wrong.

Good job explaining why. I never thought about it that way. Guess I should've looked at it from your point of view...

[tankbug]

That always struck me as an odd statment.

They had servers that were supporting around 10 million people.

Blizzard loses somewhere is the number of 6 million + gamers.

When population of servers is brought up, blizzard says they are increasing the capacity of servers. Seems odd.

Lose 6 million people but up the server capacity? For what reason? They sure as hell are not crowded.

Maybe they're expecting a sudden surge when the movie hits, so they're doing some upgrades now to make sure the capacity is where it's supposed to be. Or maybe they're changing the server structure a little, like increasing adding 50% more capacity to certain realms, and merging less popular realms into them.

[quras]

Maybe they're expecting a sudden surge when the movie hits, so they're doing some upgrades now to make sure the capacity is where it's supposed to be. Or maybe they're changing the server structure a little, like increasing adding 50% more capacity to certain realms, and merging less popular realms into them.

Could be but you don't lose 6+ million gamers and when population questions start coming up claim, populations only "appear" down because we upped server capacity. Roughly 10 million gamers capacity (or more). Now they have 6+ million open gamer spaces but the upped server capacity and thats why population seems down more than ever. Just doesn't make sense.

[Nihilan]

It is likely they are also preparing for the inevitable continuation of the migration of the surviving playerbase to the high pop realms like Proudmoore, Tich, Illidan, Area 52, etc. (US realms anyways) As the low pop realms lose people to boredom and unsubscription, a large number will also be looking to move to greener pastures on more heavily populated realms. And some of those high-pop realms were already seeing queues well into WoD.

[tankbug]

Could be but you don't lose 6+ million gamers and when population questions start coming up claim, populations only "appear" down because we upped server capacity. Roughly 10 million gamers capacity (or more). Now they have 6+ million open gamer spaces but the upped server capacity and thats why population seems down more than ever. Just doesn't make sense.

Yeah, but the server population levels changed in a very short time window for most realms, which would indicate that Blizzard either changed something, or that all realms have had an almost identical decline, and that they passed the threshold at the approximately the same time. Not so sure the latter is very plausible either.

[Perkunas]

I really rather like the flight pad idea. You can gain flight at cap for the normal xK amount of gold BUT you can only mount up on your flying mount from certain launchpads in zones and once you dismount you have to run back to a launch pad in order to mount a flyer again. This way the fly-boys can have their free-form flight and they still have to be a part of the world until they can hoof it back to another launch pad.

[quras]

I really rather like the flight pad idea. You can gain flight at cap for the normal xK amount of gold BUT you can only mount up on your flying mount from certain launchpads in zones and once you dismount you have to run back to a launch pad in order to mount a flyer again. This way the fly-boys can have their free-form flight and they still have to be a part of the world until they can hoof it back to another launch pad.

While not a bad idea. Not one I'd quickly jump behind.

I'd rather see blizzard put in some work to make flying a hassle in areas they really want flying hindered because of a certain area.

Make mobs/devices that can take you down at the keep or stronghold.
That village you plan to storm well they are known for ranged mobs.

There really is no limit to what could be designed to hinder flight in particular areas of interest leaving the rest of the world to fly in as you feel like when you reach max level. If you want to fly into those areas and risk the dismount fine. Play as you like. I can also see a scenario that once you are deep inside enemy territory, it might be difficult to just mount up and fly out because of the density of ranged mobs. Easier to fly in but still with risks but harder to get out.

But that takes creativity and design effort. Something blizzard has sorely been avoiding to any large extent the past expansions.

[Mafic]

I really rather like the flight pad idea. You can gain flight at cap for the normal xK amount of gold BUT you can only mount up on your flying mount from certain launchpads in zones and once you dismount you have to run back to a launch pad in order to mount a flyer again. This way the fly-boys can have their free-form flight and they still have to be a part of the world until they can hoof it back to another launch pad.

I think that defeats the entire the point of flying as part of the immersion is the continuity of it which makes the MMO world larger and you realize how more interconnected it is. Use flight paths to go around Draenor. Now use a flying mount and the world feels larger because you can understand how the zone are aligned relative to one another. Flight paths are scripted and take away player control, and thus hide how the world interconnected.

This is why travel in other MMO's is a big deal because it shows how the world is interconnected. Blizz has got lazy and has become raid or die focused with Ion Hazzikostas.

[Eapoe]

I think that defeats the entire the point of flying as part of the immersion is the continuity of it which makes the MMO world larger and you realize how more interconnected it is. Use flight paths to go around Draenor. Now use a flying mount and the world feels larger because you can understand how the zone are aligned relative to one another. Flight paths are scripted and take away player control, and thus hide how the world interconnected.

This is why travel in other MMO's is a big deal because it shows how the world is interconnected. Blizz has got lazy and has become raid or die focused with Ion Hazzikostas.

It really doesn't though. This is by far the best compromise I've seen to date. Thinking in terms of WoD, you have your Flight Path points and your outposts in every zone, if Blizz left in FP's for people without flight that's fine, but with the launch pad idea, you could have "landing zones" inside the outposts to get on/off your mount. As he put it, you still get to mount and fly all over the place and experience the world how you want, do little fly-by's of enemy camps/unknown areas to learn the best ways to tackle an objective, then go back and land and then you have the ground style that Blizzard wants. They could even have more than just the outpost style so you aren't limited to one place per zone, or just have every FP be a landing zone, but you'd still have your free travel from each, instead of the scripted point A to point B.
Just on a side note: personally I don't feel that "flight makes the world feel bigger" is a good objective. How many times do we hear people in airplanes say "it looks so small?" Just a perspective thing and personally when I'm up in the air, in game or the few times I've been in an airplane, things always feel and look much smaller and not as grand.

[Delimit]

Just on a side note: personally I don't feel that "flight makes the world feel bigger" is a good objective. How many times do we hear people in airplanes say "it looks so small?" Just a perspective thing and personally when I'm up in the air, in game or the few times I've been in an airplane, things always feel and look much smaller and not as grand.

It has to do with perspective. It makes the world look smaller overall, but it allows you to put into perspective how small you are in relation. Just because a continent looks small from the ISS doesn't mean that they don't appreciate how small they are in actuality, making you realize how big it all really is.

[Eapoe]

It has to do with perspective. It makes the world look smaller overall, but it allows you to put into perspective how small you are in relation. Just because a continent looks small from the ISS doesn't mean that they don't appreciate the realization of how small they are in actuality making you realize how big it really is.

True, and while I don't disagree with you, it still comes down to how small things appear from a distance. I know exactly what you are saying, but at the same time, while making you feel small in the grand scheme of things, as well as appreciating how big something can be, it still gives the appearance of being smaller. You can appreciate something all you want in perspective, but doesn't change the fact that things seem and feel bigger the closer you are and the more direct interaction you have with something.

[Mafic]

It really doesn't though. This is by far the best compromise I've seen to date. Thinking in terms of WoD, you have your Flight Path points and your outposts in every zone, if Blizz left in FP's for people without flight that's fine, but with the launch pad idea, you could have "landing zones" inside the outposts to get on/off your mount. As he put it, you still get to mount and fly all over the place and experience the world how you want, do little fly-by's of enemy camps/unknown areas to learn the best ways to tackle an objective, then go back and land and then you have the ground style that Blizzard wants. They could even have more than just the outpost style so you aren't limited to one place per zone, or just have every FP be a landing zone, but you'd still have your free travel from each, instead of the scripted point A to point B.
Just on a side note: personally I don't feel that "flight makes the world feel bigger" is a good objective. How many times do we hear people in airplanes say "it looks so small?" Just a perspective thing and personally when I'm up in the air, in game or the few times I've been in an airplane, things always feel and look much smaller and not as grand.

Way to miss the point of flying throughout a continuous world and between zones. Turning flying mounts into a gimmick like Aviann's feather makes it pointless and a merely upgraded version of flight paths.

- - - Updated - - -

It has to do with perspective. It makes the world look smaller overall, but it allows you to put into perspective how small you are in relation. Just because a continent looks small from the ISS doesn't mean that they don't appreciate how small they are in actuality, making you realize how big it all really is.

If a player was stuck in their garrison 24/7 and ported to Ashran once in a while they would not realize that there is a whole world to explore with a flying mount by simply heading West from Frostfire Basin or East from Shadowmoon valley.

It is like being dropped in the middle of Idaho...it is not the same as driving into Idaho from Montana or driving around Europe instead of being dropped into one aspect of Europe (eg Spain).

[SirCowdog]

It really doesn't though. This is by far the best compromise I've seen to date. Thinking in terms of WoD, you have your Flight Path points and your outposts in every zone, if Blizz left in FP's for people without flight that's fine, but with the launch pad idea, you could have "landing zones" inside the outposts to get on/off your mount. As he put it, you still get to mount and fly all over the place and experience the world how you want, do little fly-by's of enemy camps/unknown areas to learn the best ways to tackle an objective, then go back and land and then you have the ground style that Blizzard wants. They could even have more than just the outpost style so you aren't limited to one place per zone, or just have every FP be a landing zone, but you'd still have your free travel from each, instead of the scripted point A to point B.
Just on a side note: personally I don't feel that "flight makes the world feel bigger" is a good objective. How many times do we hear people in airplanes say "it looks so small?" Just a perspective thing and personally when I'm up in the air, in game or the few times I've been in an airplane, things always feel and look much smaller and not as grand.

Every time I hear someone use the word "compromise" in regards to flight, it's really just code for "another way to try and relegate flight to sideshow status instead of integrating it into being an actual part of the game".

I'm glad people are looking at way to try and make flight work(the more of those out there, the more possibilities blizzard has available to consider), but the flight pad is just another way to turn flying into a gimmick. And the one thing WoW needs less of is is gimmicks.

[Eapoe]

Every time I hear someone use the word "compromise" in regards to flight, it's really just code for "another way to try and relegate flight to sideshow status instead of integrating it into being an actual part of the game".

I'm glad people are looking at way to try and make flight work(the more of those out there, the more possibilities blizzard has available to consider), but the flight pad is just another way to turn flying into a gimmick. And the one thing WoW needs less of is is gimmicks.

Or it's just what the word implies, a common ground to benefit both sides, and in this case offers a lot of what people in this thread are arguing for (different way to explore, new immersion in game, more convenient travel, not relegated to ground full time), but keeps the game in line with what Blizzard also wants (ground exploration, appreciation of design, maybe some player interaction). People post things like the old BC content of cannons shooting you down if you approach or patrolling mobs. Honestly, the cannon thing is already close to the landing pad idea and is and of itself a gimmick since you would only have safe areas to land. As far as patrolling mobs, obviously they would have to be high enough to aggro people flying way over the area and low enough that you cants just stick to just above ground on travel. Anyone who remembers the cathedral area in WotLK can tell you how annoying that can be as you move 10 feet and the next thing you know there's 5 mobs attacking you.
I'm just trying to elaborate that the landing pad so far has been the best solution to the flight debate that has come up. A lot of people say "make flight more involved," but then have little to nothing in ways this could be achieved. The "pad" is an actual solution that can work.

[Elim Garak]

Or it's just what the word implies, a common ground to benefit both sides.

No it is not.

I don't see how that "compromise" benefits me in the slightest.

[quras]

Or it's just what the word implies, a common ground to benefit both sides, SNIP...

The "pad" is an actual solution that can work.

No not really. Thats not a compromise I'd enjoy. I'd rather not go with some "flight pad"

I'd rather see blizzard work on in game mobs or devices that affect max level fliers. Design keeps are areas and that easier and harder to get into and out of if you fly vs tackle it on the ground. One being harder than the other depending in the quests and areas.

blizzard is more willing to take the easy way out with some cheap no fly gimmick than put in that design effort to create a world based on max level fly but also mobs that are capable of dealing with flyers when need be based on the area.

A flight pad isn't a good compromise.