No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Deleted]

I do

And that's how WoW always was.

Definitely not. Not in Classic, not in BC, not in Wrath. The first time I felt that mob density is so extreme was in TI.

Edit: I am not speaking about hubs where mob density was of course higher. I am speaking about overall terrain, where you have had large stretches of mob-empty areas. TI was just packed with mobs, and they did the same in many areas of WoD.

[Zalamander]

WoD has no replayability whatsoever, I only care about first playthrough on my main, it's fun, others are mundane. I dun touch alts until all QoL improvements are in place. TBH, I didn't have any alts till Legion pre-order, prior that I had only 1 character.

Let me fix that for you.
All expansiuons prior to WoD I enjoyed plenty leveling up all my 10 chars to max level, that all stopped with WoDs on rails linear campagin that seems cool at first maybe but leaves little to no choices.

[ls-]

Let me fix that for you.
All expansiuons prior to WoD I enjoyed plenty leveling up all my 10 chars to max level, that all stopped with WoDs on rails linear campagin that seems cool at first maybe but leaves little to no choices.

No, dun fix it, to me WoW has no replayability, I did both pre-Cata and post-Cata loremasters on my main. I've seen/done all quests and I did all raid and dungs. I have alts thanks to lvl100 boost.

I've been playing WoW since 2.0.4, and I had 1 character, I tried to level alts numerous times, and couldn't even reach level 10, cuz it felt like shit.

[Pua]

And how is it different from current Legion meta? O_o

I've already answered this.

Because the current meta-achievement does NOT unlock flight.

The designers decide, arbitrarily, when it actually happens.

I'm arguing that the meta-achievement SHOULD unlock flight.

I assume that unlocking flight will be handled as in WoD, for all your characters.

I reckon you're right and, in Warlords, it caused an almighty, but entirely needless, shitstorm.

It isn't a convenience, extra bag space is a convenience, pet storage was a convenience, toy storage was a convenience.

I get all of that, and it's valid; I just disagree. I consider flight a convenience, because it doesn't enable anything that wasn't already available. It simply increases the ease of access to it. There's an abstract discussion to be had here, but it's essentially pointless.

[SirCowdog]

They can't, they tried experimenting with flying/swimming in Cata (Vashj'ir and few quests in Hyjal). It's a complete disaster and failure. Your average WoW player hates 3D combat.

Like I said: The complete inability for people to think outside the box. If people can only handle 2d combat, maybe they should go back to WC3 or SC.

[ls-]

I've already answered this.

Because the current meta-achievement does NOT unlock flight.

The designers decide, arbitrarily, when it actually happens.

I'm arguing that the meta-achievement SHOULD unlock flight.

Right now we have ONE PART of meta available, not meta itself. You do NOT complete meta, when you finish part 1.

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Like I said: The complete inability for people to think outside the box. If people can only handle 2d combat, maybe they should go back to WC3 or SC.

Or they can keep playing WoW, cuz it has no 3D combat.

[Deleted]

Why has this thread got 244 pages? All of you people that argue for flying from the very first day of the expansion are the same people who wanted lfr and still want it. Filthy casuals. Get on with it and stop crying, explore, complete most of the end game and there you go, you have flying available. At least it takes time now and some effort in order to be able to fly.

[SirCowdog]

I get all of that, and it's valid; I just disagree. I consider flight a convenience, because it doesn't enable anything that wasn't already available. It simply increases the ease of access to it. There's an abstract discussion to be had here, but it's essentially pointless.

It's an argument I've tried to hammer into people multiple times in this thread. When flight is only applied to ground-based content that wasn't designed to take it into consideration, the ground content is ruined. Therefore, in order to make flight viable, content has to be designed to include flight from the beginning.

Unfortunately, Blizzard's solution is to simply ensure that flight can't impact ground content by forcing players to just clear all the content before they can access flight at all. It's a missed opportunity, and a cop out of the most extreme weaksauce. It also ensures that flight is relatively worthless once obtained, robbing it of most of the reward-value it might have otherwise had.

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Or they can keep playing WoW, cuz it has no 3D combat.

Sure, and the population can continue to dwindle as the game never evolves. In fact, at this point it's actually devolving. Old-style talent trees via Artifacts, and the effective removal of flight. These aren't good changes. People might be celebrating right now because of some perceived victory of being in alignment with Blizzard, but it's an extremely short-sighted view.

Just remember that every player driven away by these changes is extra time in the queue waiting for LFD, LFR, BGs, Arena, or time spent spamming in trade chat looking for a challenge mode group. Or when your mythic raid group loses a player and can't find a decent replacement because the pool of available players is too small.

The entire design of banking on 'cyclical' players, with spikes of box sales at the beginning and followed by near-catastrophic loss of players shortly after, is stupid. It might be good for Blizzard profits, but it's bad for the health of the game overall. Treating flight like this is going to cost them players. Even if you like the change, don't turn a blind eye to that.

[rda]

The entire design of banking on 'cyclical' players, with spikes of box sales at the beginning and followed by near-catastrophic loss of players shortly after, is stupid. It might be good for Blizzard profits, but it's bad for the health of the game overall.

No, no, no, they aren't banking on cyclical players. That's just something Ion said because he could say little else. They are trying to get everyone to play all the time. Look at the grinds they are adding in Legion: artifact power with a long tail, legendaries, prestige.

Disabling flight is part of that, it makes everyone go slower. Yes, it's unpleasant and can backfire, because WTF.

[caervek]

I consider flight a convenience, because it doesn't enable anything that wasn't already available. It simply increases the ease of access to it.

I get what you mean, however the was a noticeable improvement in quality of player experience between WoD without flying, and WoD with flying (this is actually true of all the previous expansions if the player couldn't immediately afford to buy flying). That level of improvement was not the same when they added the toybox or made it so X item stacked to 200, because they were just added convenience, they didn't improve the player's experience of the game/world.

It's not just that Legion will be worse without flying than it would be with it that upsets me, it's that it's yet another example of Blizzard not caring about the players, and it's going to result in Legion recapturing a lot less of the lost WoD subs than it would have.

[caervek]

Most mythic guilds probably aren't really that bothered if the pool of potential recruits doesn't include people that can't spare the handful of hours it takes to get flying, considering they generally require you to have flexibility with what character you play to better fit their needs (which usually means multiple geared specs/alts)

You're confusing "most" mythic guilds with the guilds who battle for world firsts. The is one guy in my guild whos been with us since the hard mode ulduar days and wasn't able to attend alt runs until BRF when he finally got a max level alt lol. Not all mythic guilds are super hardcore, in fact most aren't.

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Treating flight like this is going to cost them players. Even if you like the change, don't turn a blind eye to that.

It's not just going to cost them players, worse, it's going to cost them the resubs of many of the players that WoD's flying debacle cost them

[Deleted]

Right now we have ONE PART of meta available, not meta itself. You do NOT complete meta, when you finish part 1.

And guess what the issue is with that.

[Mafic]

Patch finder is going to backfire when players come at Legion launch an realize flying is segmented into tiny pieces. This is going to be entertaining to watch as this blows up in the Blizz devs faces once more.

I haven't decided which is worse: Patch finder II, Order Halls, or the Legion Pruning....either way it is going to tear at the WoW community into different directions by not learning the mistakes of WoD.

Patchfinder is going to prove to be the worst long term as it is harder to fix than Order Halls or Pruning.

[PragmaticGamer]

There is three months left till launch. They need to burn the midnight oil at this point with such a hard dead lline.

Meh. They can just do what they did with WoD:

Delay content for a couple of patches, which gives them 6-8 months more to complete it.

They can also cut content (e.g., Bladespire Citadel being a major area), and claim they "changed their vision."

[Okacz]

Right now we have ONE PART of meta available, not meta itself. You do NOT complete meta, when you finish part 1.

That's the problem. This achievement kind of fulfills the purpose of "do ALL the world content before being able to fly". And even after completing all these steps, you remain grounded. So in a way, you earned your flying, but still don't get it. And Blizzard just says you will get it... eventually, in some patch.

So this kind of proves that Blizzard is not really after making you earn flying (because what else do you want players to do to be able to fly in this particular area), but after making sure you get flying as late in the expansion as possible. Or not at all. I'd argue that this pathfinder might as well be a carrot on a stick for players really withing to be able to fly again, only to be turned down by Blizzard saying "we figured out that flying won't be needed in Legion, so part 3 of pathfinder will give you something else". They obviously don't want flying in the game, so they might do just that. And tho many people would be angry and betrayed, not that many would leave.

[Mafic]

Blizzard's goal is to make earning flying punishing so players don't bother with it so they can eventually remove it.

This is Macheivellian level of planning. I don't trust Watcher, especially how he put an emphasis on raid testing over class tuning.

[Raiju]

This is Macheivellian level of planning. I don't trust Watcher, especially how he put an emphasis on raid testing over class tuning.

Class tuning is *ALWAYS* last

[Dhrizzle]

Like I said: The complete inability for people to think outside the box. If people can only handle 2d combat, maybe they should go back to WC3 or SC.

Maybe if people want 3D combat they should go play a game like Elite: Dangerous instead of expecting a fantasy RPG to turn into a fight simulator.

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Why has this thread got 244 pages? All of you people that argue for flying from the very first day of the expansion are the same people who wanted lfr and still want it. Filthy casuals. Get on with it and stop crying, explore, complete most of the end game and there you go, you have flying available. At least it takes time now and some effort in order to be able to fly.

Not true, I like both LFR and the no-flight/pathfinder model. In fact no-flying has become more appealing since I been came a filthy casual as it makes the open world content more engaging. When I was raiding world content was just a set of chores to blast through to get gold or rewards to support my raiding.

[Tartys]

Maybe if people want 3D combat they should go play a game like Elite: Dangerous instead of expecting a fantasy RPG to turn into a flight simulator.

I fixed that for you.

[Mafic]

Class tuning is *ALWAYS* last

False.

That is damage tuning that comes at the tail end. In the past class mechanic tuning was the top priority for Blizz. Former EJ member aka Watcher aka Ion Hazikostas recent promotion shows Legion is going to be another raid or die expansion which is exactly what WoD was.

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That's the problem. This achievement kind of fulfills the purpose of "do ALL the world content before being able to fly". And even after completing all these steps, you remain grounded. So in a way, you earned your flying, but still don't get it. And Blizzard just says you will get it... eventually, in some patch.

So this kind of proves that Blizzard is not really after making you earn flying (because what else do you want players to do to be able to fly in this particular area), but after making sure you get flying as late in the expansion as possible. Or not at all. I'd argue that this pathfinder might as well be a carrot on a stick for players really withing to be able to fly again, only to be turned down by Blizzard saying "we figured out that flying won't be needed in Legion, so part 3 of pathfinder will give you something else". They obviously don't want flying in the game, so they might do just that. And tho many people would be angry and betrayed, not that many would leave.

Exactly.

They are going to protract it in such a length they will try to remove flying at the end. How can you not have a solid plan about flying in the same breath break it up into tiny parts? That is a massive contradiction.