No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[endur]

For the first time, I'm probably going to skip the launch of an expac and wait to subscribe until flying is patched into the game.

[Connll]

It took 6 years for that to happen and three expansions later. lol

Yes, because work on Azeroth started after Cataclysm had launched right? I mean, its not like work on that magnitude wouldn´t require a few years of planning and execution, right?

I mean, and it is OBVIOUS that we could not fly in the earlier expansions. It is not like flight was used as a selling point for Burning Cursade, or entire regions, like Icecrown and Storm Peaks, were designed to be traversed with flying mounts. That would be crazy.

Yep, let people explore the world and earn flying. No big deal.

Absolutely Correct. And let them fly after exploring the world.

Not after Who-knows-when as this pathfinder entails

Biggest fail in gaming history? Lmao, now you're just speaking out of your assh*le. Warcraft is the most profitable and most successful game in history. Billions of dollars in earnings, 10 + years. Total failure, right?

Yep, because WoW profits and success totally did NOT happen while flight was allowed right?.

I mean, everyone knows that Burning Crusade, and Wrath of the Lich King presented steady and ever-growing losses, that were mitigated by Wod and its no-flying policy. Of course!

Its not a loss of five million subcriptions MINIMUM in 3 months and a half was the biggest loss in the entire history of gaming! In fact, WoW was losing subs at even greater rates before that! Losing HALF of your revenue source is never to be consudered a failure... no, it was a success! a RESOUNDING VICTORY!!! Warlords of Draener has assured its place in the gaming books, to be studied by any and all gaming studends, as a SHINING EXAMPLE of behavior that will surely make your game a success!

We all must acknowledge... nay, PRAISE the vision and effort of developer team, as without their vision, the SAVAGE world, they brought forth, we would still be playing a expansion with the same quality level as Pandaria! Or Burning Crusade! Or Wrath!!! The horror!

All of this whining just because you don't get flying out of the gate, boooooohoooooooooo!

Yeah, because you would never come into a thread to do nothing except whine about whining, right?

[glorygores]

you actually, genuinely, believe that WoW's success is the fruit of flying? Really? wow. just wow. that's amazing, really.

[Connll]

you actually, genuinely, believe that WoW's success is the fruit of flying? Really? wow. just wow. that's amazing, really.

It is a significant part of it yes.

Do you want to know more?

[Alfakennyone]

Yes, because work on Azeroth started after Cataclysm had launched right? I mean, its not like work on that magnitude wouldn´t require a few years of planning and execution, right?

I mean, and it is OBVIOUS that we could not fly in the earlier expansions. It is not like flight was used as a selling point for Burning Cursade, or entire regions, like Icecrown and Storm Peaks, were designed to be traversed with flying mounts. That would be crazy.



Absolutely Correct. And let them fly after exploring the world.

Not after Who-knows-when as this pathfinder entails



Yep, because WoW profits and success totally did NOT happen while flight was allowed right?.

I mean, everyone knows that Burning Crusade, and Wrath of the Lich King presented steady and ever-growing losses, that were mitigated by Wod and its no-flying policy. Of course!

Its not a loss of five million subcriptions MINIMUM in 3 months and a half was the biggest loss in the entire history of gaming! In fact, WoW was losing subs at even greater rates before that! Losing HALF of your revenue source is never to be consudered a failure... no, it was a success! a RESOUNDING VICTORY!!! Warlords of Draener has assured its place in the gaming books, to be studied by any and all gaming studends, as a SHINING EXAMPLE of behavior that will surely make your game a success!

We all must acknowledge... nay, PRAISE the vision and effort of developer team, as without their vision, the SAVAGE world, they brought forth, we would still be playing a expansion with the same quality level as Pandaria! Or Burning Crusade! Or Wrath!!! The horror!




Yeah, because you would never come into a thread to do nothing except whine about whining, right?

Why do you always end your arguments with ... Right? because it's not right. lol

Explore the world, get the achievements. MAN THAT'S HARD!

From Q3 of 2014, they were at 7.4m subs. Then the spike from WoD launch (Q4 14) to 10m. Then Q1 '15 went back to were it was before the launch, 7.1mil. Then a year after, before the launch Q3 '15, it was down to 5.5mil. So technically, they really lost 1.9m subs during WoD. It's a lot, sure, but it's been on a slow decline since the end of WoLK. WoD came out 4 years after the end of WoLK, so the no fly zone crap isn't the reason they were declining in subs. lol


But of course they're losing subscribers. lol This game is going on 12 years old, nobody in their right mind would've thought this game would last that long when they first launched it in 2004.

So no, it's not a failure, it's just a decline in a product that's really close to it's end. lol but overall? The most successful game.


No... lol again with Right? bullsh*t. I came into this topic to discuss reasons why it's a good idea that they don't allow flying until people have achieved something, all you're doing is wah wah wah, no fly no buy cause that sucks to work for stuff!


So, they already know their game is on the decline and has been, one less subscriber from you won't matter.


NO FLY NO BUY, RIGHT?

- - - Updated - - -

you actually, genuinely, believe that WoW's success is the fruit of flying? Really? wow. just wow. that's amazing, really.

Lol exactly. People loved playing on the now closed vanilla server and want legiment vanilla server and what's there? NO FLYING! wha'dya know!

[SirCowdog]

I honestly dont care either way TBH, but the ammount of whining and threats coming from people who absolutely demand flying is very annoying. I cant believe some people would just not play wow over something as trivial as flying. Im sure it is just one of many reasons but its propped up as the only reason to support flying from the get go.

I also would laugh if alot of the private server/vanilla server folk are pro flying although I have no idea either way it would just be amazingly ironic.

The thing is, when you stop to think about it, it's not trivial at all. Blizzard themselves have said that half the players want it. Flying effects the entire design and layout of both terrain and encounters. And enough people voiced a desire for flying to make blizzard change from "no flying ever again" to getting it into the current expansion and Legion.

Dismissing or underestimating this issue is a mistake. Don't think that just because you personally don't care one way or another , that it isn't significant. Blizzard made that mistake with WoD and it blew up in their face. That they appear to have not recognized why it happened, and are applying many of the same themes to Legion, is unfortunate.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol exactly. People loved playing on the now closed vanilla server and want legiment vanilla server and what's there? NO FLYING! wha'dya know!

Let's be completely honest here. Nostalrius isn't the best support for a no flying case. People wanted to play a FREE version of vanilla with less restrictions on batting, hacking, or cheating. They wanted a nostalgia trip. I suspect that flying wasn't even part of the equation for most people, and even if it was, would they be as willing to pay full price for that nostalgia? That's very hard to say.

Besides which,the idea that people want a vanilla server specifically to avoid flight is at least as inaccurate as saying no flying was responsible for all 5m sub losses in WoD. So why don't we all stick to more concrete arguing points.

[Connll]

Explore the world, get the achievements. MAN THAT'S HARD!

Yeah, its not like it has been stated HUNDREDS of times that pathfinder isn´t a deal breaker, provided it can be completed at launch? Its not like it would take... you know, willful ignorance to come in here and repeat this PRATT yet again, right?

From Q3 of 2014, they were at 7.4m subs. Then the spike from WoD launch (Q4 14) to 10m. Then Q1 '15 went back to were it was before the launch, 7.1mil. Then a year after, before the launch Q3 '15, it was down to 5.5mil. So technically, they really lost 1.9m subs during WoD. It's a lot, sure, but it's been on a slow decline since the end of WoLK. WoD came out 4 years after the end of WoLK, so the no fly zone crap isn't the reason they were declining in subs. lol

First, WoD got to more than 10 million (10,5m? 11? 11,5? Forgot the exact number). Second, the last sub announcement (ever, according to Blizz) was not long after patch 6.2, and reported 5,5M subs. It was Q3. I´m afraid you are misinformed.

Third, as you said yourself, WoW was in a slow decline. Which is a VERY difference beast from "Decline-so-fast-that-earns-its-place-as-biggest-sub-loss-in-gaming-History", that WoD´s loss was.

So no, it's not a failure, it's just a decline in a product that's really close to it's end. lol but overall? The most successful game.

When you get from a slow, expected, and natural loss(in about a decade) to the biggest in gaming history in the span of 3 and a half months, then yes, it *is* a failure. A colossal one, in fact.

No... lol again with Right? bullsh*t. I came into this topic to discuss reasons why it's a good idea that they don't allow flying until people have achieved something, all you're doing is wah wah wah, no fly no buy cause that sucks to work for stuff!

Yet you failed to present even one of those "reasons", instead acting like a whining bitch that likes to whine about whining, right?

So, they already know their game is on the decline and has been, one less subscriber from you won't matter.

Yes, I am sure the other 5 million MINIMUM that left, just like me, won´t matter... its not like, you know... the WoW devs being forced to reverse their no-flight-ever position in 2 weeks after their announcement... had anything to do with subscription losses. I´m sure that players leaving because of flying weren´t the reason, right?

NO FLY NO BUY, RIGHT?

Right.

Lol exactly. People loved playing on the now closed vanilla server and want legiment vanilla server and what's there? NO FLYING! wha'dya know!

Yes, I´m sure that they are there just because of no-flying and nothing else. Of course. The possibilities for hacking and cheating surely had nothing whatsoever to do with that.

After all, it´s not like anti-fliers lack the willpower to stay in the ground, right? Its not like they´ll be the first to hop in their flying mounts as soon as they are available...

[Alfakennyone]

Let's be completely honest here. Nostalrius isn't the best support for a no flying case. People wanted to play a FREE version of vanilla with less restrictions on batting, hacking, or cheating. They wanted a nostalgia trip. I suspect that flying wasn't even part of the equation for most people, and even if it was, would they be as willing to pay full price for that nostalgia? That's very hard to say.

Besides which,the idea that people want a vanilla server specifically to avoid flight is at least as inaccurate as saying no flying was responsible for all 5m sub losses in WoD. So why don't we all stick to more concrete arguing points.

That's not my support for no-flying, it was my argument towards his comment, "A significant part" to Warcraft's success was because of flying. lol Which is just stupid to think.

I'm also not claiming people want a vanilla server to avoid flight, either. lol They want it because it was probably better, I wasn't around then, so idk.

First, WoD got to more than 10 million (10,5m? 11? 11,5? Forgot the exact number). Second, the last sub announcement (ever, according to Blizz) was not long after patch 6.2, and reported 5,5M subs. It was Q3. I´m afraid you are misinformed.

Third, as you said yourself, WoW was in a slow decline. Which is a VERY difference beast from "Decline-so-fast-that-earns-its-place-as-biggest-sub-loss-in-gaming-History", that WoD´s loss was.

When you get from a slow, expected, and natural loss(in about a decade) to the biggest in gaming history in the span of 3 and a half months, then yes, it *is* a failure. A colossal one, in fact.

I'm afraid you're blind as a f'in bat. lol I already said that but let me repost what I said here:

"From Q3 of 2014, they were at 7.4m subs. Then the spike from WoD launch (Q4 14) to 10m. Then Q1 '15 went back to were it was before the launch, 7.1mil. Then a year after, before the launch, Q3 '15, it was down to 5.5mil. So technically, they really lost 1.9m subs during WoD. It's a lot, sure, but it's been on a slow decline since the end of WoLK. WoD came out 4 years after the end of WoLK, so the no fly zone crap isn't the reason they were declining in subs. lol"

TL: DR -
Q3 of 2014 (already on a slow decline from years ago) had 7.4m subs
Q4 (Launch of WoD) got up to 10mil
Q1 of 2015 - Those resubs left and went back down to 7mil
Q2 - 5.6mil subs
Q3 - 5.5mil subs

Here, I took their graph. The marked off number is launch of WoD, just to prove more of a point.



http://www.statista.com/statistics/2...rs-by-quarter/

A failure would've been from the year of launch of Wow in 2004 to the end of WoLK in 2010, at the peak of 12mil, plummeted to 5mil in a year. Not a slow 6 year decline from 12 to 5m with a short increase because of WoD launch. Plus, that increase from 7.5 to 10 and back down to 7mil, in two quarters, is utter shit for your "BIGGEST FAILURE IN GAMING HISTORY OMG OMGOMG!!!" crapument, not even an argument.

You can see the increase for MoP's release, too. Those resubs left, and more and more people starting leaving.

Yet you failed to present even one of those "reasons", instead acting like a whining bitch that likes to whine about whining, right?

I did actually, thanks very much mr. blindy.

"I liked no flying, as an engineer, I could get to places that would be difficult otherwise. It helped getting the treasures in WoD"
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post40190300

Blind as a bat, RIGHT?! Right.

Yes, I am sure the other 5 million MINIMUM that left, just like me, won´t matter... its not like, you know... the WoW devs being forced to reverse their no-flight-ever position in 2 weeks after their announcement... had anything to do with subscription losses. I´m sure that players leaving because of flying weren´t the reason, right?

Wrong, but nice try.

People left because there wasn't much to do, if flying was the reason why people left, you would've saw an increase in subs when it was added, not decrease. ty

Yes, I´m sure that they are there just because of no-flying and nothing else. Of course. The possibilities for hacking and cheating surely had nothing whatsoever to do with that.

That's not my point dipshh lol

My point is, you said the "a significant part" behind Warcraft's success was because of flying and my point was saying, people love Vanilla and demanded a server, which had no flying.

So.... You'd be pretty stupid to believe that a game's success is based off if you can fly or not. LOL stupid argument.


I bet the same thing will happen for Legion, the people who left will come back and resub for a few months and leave. Then the numbers will go back down to where they were before the release. Continue to drop from there because Warcraft is nearing the end.




Plus, ending an argument in a question is sh*t. Be better at it, please. But whatever, right? right? right? right? right? right?

[Maudib]

Biggest fail in gaming history? Lmao, now you're just speaking out of your assh*le. Warcraft is the most profitable and most successful game in history. Billions of dollars in earnings, 10 + years. Total failure, right?

Any other company, losing 70% of it's customers in less than a year, would be easily categorized as failing.

What I find absolutely bizarre is folks like you who bury their head in the sand and cannot truly understand that losing 7 million, subscription paying "whiners" is and will affect YOUR game. Right now you see it as a betrayal of your beloved franchise that anyone say negative things about it... but if you don't wake up and begin to fight for your fellow player's expectations... you will find yourself watching the game be closed down.

"Oh no! WoW will never die!" Please... take a look around... WoW is on life support as it is... and you are stepping on the oxygen line.

[SirCowdog]

That's not my support for no-flying, it was my argument towards his comment, "A significant part" to Warcraft's success was because of flying. lol Which is just stupid to think.

Hmm....I think you might still be a little off the mark there. I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure flight was something that no MMO had really done very well up to that point. The only other MMO in that time frame I can think of that did it even halfway decently was City of Heroes, which was an almost entirely different genre.

DAOC didn't have it. UO didn't have it. EQ1 and EQ2 didn't have it. Asheron's Call didn't. Lineage 1 and 2 didn't either. Um....maybe Star Wars Galaxies had hoverbikes? I didn't play that one, so I couldn't say.

I think it's actually fair to say that Blizzard really hit on something with the introduction of flight in TBC, and followed up with it in WotLK. It was innovative and took the game forward, unlike today, which is taking the game backwards. Was flight the main reason for WoW's success? Obviously not. Was it a significant contributing factor? Defintely!

Again, you have to look at WoD within the context of the entire lifespan of WoW, and how flight fits into that equation. Flight is something that had been a defining feature of the game for 8 years. It set WoW apart from all the other generic fantasy MMOs that were saturating the market. WoD attempted to get away with removing it without replacing it with something else that was significantly better, and enough of an improvement to make people forget about the previous 8 years. That undoubtedly hurt WoD.

What's interesting is that Legion is repeating the mistake. There isn't a whole lot in the open world to justify the removal of flight until some unspecified time later in the expansion, after most of the content is already cleared and obsolete. The only recovery I see from that plan is if 7.1 or 7.2 has something flight-centric that Blizzard has yet to reveal.

I'm also not claiming people want a vanilla server to avoid flight, either. lol They want it because it was probably better, I wasn't around then, so idk.

It wasn't better. It's 99.999% nostalgia goggles. So much of why we were willing to accept how the game worked in vanilla was simply because we didn't know any better. A few people obviously like that style, but again I have to wonder how many of the players on Nostrialus were only willing to play because it was free, and had much lower restrictions on botting/hacking.

I suspect that the numbers would not be nearly as high on a Blizzard-run, subscription based vanilla server with full-strength anti-hack/anti-botting.

[Connll]

I'm afraid you're blind as a f'in bat. lol I already said that but let me repost what I said here:

"From Q3 of 2014, they were at 7.4m subs. Then the spike from WoD launch (Q4 14) to 10m. Then Q1 '15 went back to were it was before the launch, 7.1mil. Then a year after, before the launch, Q3 '15, it was down to 5.5mil. So technically, they really lost 1.9m subs during WoD. It's a lot, sure, but it's been on a slow decline since the end of WoLK. WoD came out 4 years after the end of WoLK, so the no fly zone crap isn't the reason they were declining in subs. lol"

TL: DR -
Q3 of 2014 (already on a slow decline from years ago) had 7.4m subs
Q4 (Launch of WoD) got up to 10mil
Q1 of 2015 - Those resubs left and went back down to 7mil
Q2 - 5.6mil subs
Q3 - 5.5mil subs

Here, I took their graph. The marked off number is launch of WoD, just to prove more of a point.


A failure would've been from the year of launch of Wow in 2004 to the end of WoLK in 2010, at the peak of 12mil, plummeted to 5mil in a year. Not a slow 6 year decline from 12 to 5m with a short increase because of WoD launch. Plus, that increase from 7.5 to 10 and back down to 7mil, in two quarters, is utter shit for your "BIGGEST FAILURE IN GAMING HISTORY OMG OMGOMG!!!" crapument, not even an argument.

You can see the increase for MoP's release, too. Those resubs left, and more and more people starting leaving.

So you are saying that, Wod managing to SURPASS the losses WoW had its entire life (a decade) until them, in a span of 4 months, is NOT a failure? Riiight....

Congratulations! You are the definition of a white knight!

I did actually, thanks very much mr. blindy.

"I liked no flying, as an engineer, I could get to places that would be difficult otherwise. It helped getting the treasures in WoD"
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0#post40190300

Blind as a bat, RIGHT?! Right.

No you didn´t Sir Knight.

You stated a PERSONAL PREFERENCE, not a reason/argument for the GAME being better. But to recognize the difference between both would require intellectual honesty, right?

Wrong, but nice try.

People left because there wasn't much to do, if flying was the reason why people left, you would've saw an increase in subs when it was added, not decrease. ty

Sir Knight, are you saying that the developers did a 180% turn in their decision for no reason whatsoever? Riiiiiiiight.
I mean, it is not like, right after their no-flight-forever announcement, there was a ENORMOUS pushback in the fourms, comparable to the old RealID event.

That's not my point dipshh lol

But Sir Knight! You said you said yourself that they were in that server because "what's there? NO FLYING! wha'dya know!"
Failing with the truth is unbecoming of a immacullate Knight like you, sir!

My point is, you said the "a significant part" behind Warcraft's success was because of flying and my point was saying, people love Vanilla and demanded a server, which had no flying.

So.... You'd be pretty stupid to believe that a game's success is based off if you can fly or not. LOL stupid argument.

Yeah, and basing a game´s sucess on features it does NOT have is SURELY a sign of great intelligence, Sir Knight.
Of course, such a feature is completely irrelevant to the game´s success while it is growing or in a "natural" decline stage.

As it is completely irrelevant that the removal of said feature coincides with the game losing over HALF of its paying customers in 3-4 months.

Riiiiiiight......

I bet the same thing will happen for Legion, the people who left will come back and resub for a few months and leave. Then the numbers will go back down to where they were before the release. Continue to drop from there because Warcraft is nearing the end.

Finally! An argument!

What you just said *is* possible. But is is not *likely*.

The reasons are several. First what I call the "WoD Doctrine" which is, essentially, Everything that led to the result we call WoD today; resources, business decisions, developers attidude, etc,etc. The Wod Doctrine resulted in a product that is, objectively, inferior to all of its predecessors by a wide margin. That didn´t result merely in the loss of half of the subbscriber base, but also resulted in severe loss of customer trust and devaluing of the franchise.

Those factors, by themselves, would result in a smaller number of people deciding to buy Legion, and would also result in a smaller average subscription time, as players would be less willing to extend the benefit of doubt to Blizzard.

However, compounding the damages already dealt by the WoD Doctrine, each new update by the developers team reveals that they, instead of making a quality game, intend to make legion WoD 2.0. Pretty much everything WoD had, they are bringing back, with almost exactly the same functionality. (only the names have changed). Which will make even more people decide to NOT buy Legion, and make the ones who did (how many were victims of their own hype) probably leave sooner than before.

In short, chances are High that Legion will experience a similar player loss as WoD did. With the caveat that they doon´t have as many players to lose, this time.

Plus, ending an argument in a question is sh*t. Be better at it, please. But whatever, right? right? right? right? right? right?

Sir Knight, are you on drugs? And yes, this is a question.

[ornichi]

I liked it when we had to explore everything in Draenor personally. Made the content look bigger. But definitely, flying should be added 7.1.

[Connll]

I liked it when we had to explore everything in Draenor personally. Made the content look bigger. But definitely, flying should be added 7.1.

Here´s the keyword.

Dont you think the content should instead *BE* bigger? With exploration areas reachable in several different ways, like floating islands, caverns, aquatic,etc etc?

[ornichi]

Here´s the keyword.

Dont you think the content should instead *BE* bigger? With exploration areas reachable in several different ways, like floating islands, caverns, aquatic,etc etc?

Blizz can't satisfy everyone. Someone starts bitching about legacy servers without flying at all, someone asks for permanent flying in every zone. Either way someone is pissed at blizz

[Connll]

Blizz can't satisfy everyone. Someone starts bitching about legacy servers without flying at all, someone asks for permanent flying in every zone. Either way someone is pissed at blizz

I´ll ask again.

As a customer, don´t you think the product you are buying should *be* bigger in content amount, instead of *looking* so?

[ornichi]

I´ll ask again.

As a customer, don´t you think the product you are buying should *be* bigger in content amount, instead of *looking* so?

from my customer POV the amount of content in Legion looks just enough for me to be interested in it for a pretty long time, if everything they promised so far, is featured in it.

[Connll]

from my customer POV the amount of content in Legion looks just enough for me to be interested in it for a pretty long time, if everything they promised so far, is featured in it.

So the amount of effort they, as in your own words, put into making WoD´s content *looking* bigger was justified, instead of *actually* making said content bigger?

[ornichi]

So the amount of effort they, as in your own words, put into making WoD´s content *looking* bigger was justified, instead of *actually* making said content bigger?

I never said WoD was fine, I've only said it was good at launch and couple of months after. They were not adding content and I burned out with the game, which never happened be4. Flying or it's absence was never a problem for me, problem was simple lack of new content at all.

[Mafic]

I never said WoD was fine, I've only said it was good at launch and couple of months after. They were not adding content and I burned out with the game, which never happened be4. Flying or it's absence was never a problem for me, problem was simple lack of new content at all.

They are going to follow the same model with Legion. Only difference is they may add an extra patch but call it a day.

- - - Updated - - -

So the amount of effort they, as in your own words, put into making WoD´s content *looking* bigger was justified, instead of *actually* making said content bigger?

Blizz wins if some players perceive things are good when they put in less effort. Literally Broken Isles is tiny, and simply another swing of making Timeless Isle on a grander scale.

[rda]

By the way, regarding flying in Legion.

They are doing these world quests that are supposed to be that big and great feature that will make Legion different from WoD. Well, I certainly welcome focus on the world, and perhaps these quests have potential, provided they fix numerous issues with rewards (way too small, you stop caring fast) and variety (not a lot of that either, but perhaps they'll be adding more, including in patches, that would make it better).

However, right now these world quests are a big pain because they are 50% flight paths, 40% running and only 10% doing the quest. No jokes. This will get old very fast.

Now, if flying was in the game, the running part would disappear and the flight paths part would get smaller, so it'd perhaps be 3x faster and doing the quest part would grow from 10% to 30%. Still skewed in that travel takes too long, but a noticeable improvement, plus you'd have the freedom to stop mid-flight for ore / herbs / dynamic events / whatever.

I doubt those who advocate not flying realize how long they will actually spend on travel in Legion. After they exhaust one-time quest content, it will be nearly all travel while sitting in a queue to somewhere.