No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[CheeseSandwich]

You can still get to the mobs and mats efficiently, just in a different manner of efficiency, as in not skipping things and trivializing the content with flight.
As for your 2nd point, players are supposed to do the legendary ring quest line, they aren't forced to. I mean, good luck getting into a mythic raid without one, but players did it, even without flight. Some people (myself included) have fun in WoD, and enjoy the game even without flight. I have flight now, and I just skip things left and right, I don't travel, I fly up, autorun, and tab out a few minutes until I get where I'm going. Super immersion there too right?
As for FP's, same issue, tab out if you want, stay tabbed in and get all the vistas you want, and if you're spot something you want, there's now a frantic race to get there before others.
No, not at all. Everything that you point out that can be another players endgame is still there. Flight is a luxury given to those players. Your point of flying around doing nothing with flight is endgame is ludicrous. If that's the case, why even have this debate at all? Pathfinder allows flight to be unlocked at endgame, so it's already there. As I've said, I understand no flying ruined the game for people, I recognize why people quit. I've also stated that if Blizzard time gates raids that I probably won't be playing for long since I don't have time.
Your 2nd to last point is also interesting, as for working for raiding is already work on its own. I do work to raid in my context, I farm the world for mats to craft and the random drops, I farm the world for daily objectives to unlock patterns and items, I work in the sense of grinding dungeons to be ready to raid, I work in the sense of learning my class and boss mechanics, and THEN I do the work of that all being brought together to attempt to kills the boss. Bottom line, I already work for this.
Your last point isn't lost in that I've already stated I understand why people quit over the flight issue, no clue why you are trying to act like I don't. It doesn't mean that when people make ludicrous statements or false comparisons I have to just read them and move on. I could, but I don't.
Let's not overlook the fact that you are still comparing a luxury of faster travel and skipping the world, to endgame content. You're comparing doing content to something that SKIPS content.

- - - Updated - - -

I never mentioned mobs and mats, what I meant was freedom of travel. Skipping things is way better achieved with flight paths and portals, and flying doesn't trivialize ANY content, because YOU CAN NOT COMPLETE ANY CONTENT HOVERING ABOVE IT. You have to land to do it. If it is compelling, fun, rewarding and/or cool to do, players will do it regardless.

Getting the lego ring is entirely optional. Not every player, in fact the extreme vast majority show no compulsion to get into mythic raiding. Good for you having fun without flight in WoD, but the facts are the overwhelming majority wanted flight back in the game. If you recognize you skip things now, and you think it is a detriment to your game, why don't you stop flying? Why does the fact YOU feel you are skipping things mean I have to suffer in my enjoyment of the game?

Immersion is to you what getting stuck in traffic is to me. I could do without your immersion ty. Your immersion adds zero to my gameplay.

That frantic race is totally there when flying as well. See TLPD, Aeonaxx, the Time Lost Camel Figurine and others.
Where did I say I fly around doing nothing? I said people use flight for their end game, just as others use min maxing for their endgame. They aren't wrong, it is what they choose to do with their time. Even so, if I wanna log on, chuck on some music, and fly around aimlessly, who the fuck are you to tell me that is wrong?

Now that pathfinder is in, we are working for flight, just as much as working for raiding. That said, earning flight was no where near trivial before, it was usually a hefty gold sink. Cool, if all that work is what you enjoy, more power to you, but if the same limitations were put on raiding that are being put on flight, ie do all the work and then you won't even get what you want (let's call it a raidwalker achieve that is equal to pathfinder 7.0), then if you had empathy you might see that people who don't care about raiding, but do care about flying, being a bit pissed off.

If you UNDERSTAND why people quit over the flying issue and why we are talking about it, THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ARGUING FOR. "Oh I totally get your guyses point and all, I see what you mean, but what I like doing is different, so you must be wrong regardless".

Here is where you continue to not understand. Flying takes players to content they want to do. If they are skipping content, then it isn't worth doing for them. If flying, and flying around alone, IS my only form of end game content, why is that being discouraged? If I use flying to do content in the world I want to do efficiently, freely and with the option to stop and do anything else in the world on my way to that content, as opposed to ports and fps that don't give me that option, how is that a bad thing?

[SirCowdog]

It's in the wording...if you asked if I found it acceptable, I would say yes, as per one of my previous points of it being Blizzard's game and designed how they want it; however, you asked if I thought it was fair, to which there is no right answer. The mythic+ dungeon idea devalues raiding, almost to an extent that players won't even need to raid to get the same raid gear, at the same ilvl. I myself have given thought to dropping raiding next xpac in favor for this model, but in the end, I won't do it, I prefer the atmosphere of raiding and playing with 19+ other people.

Ok, so you're CHOOSING to play the game in a certain way. You HAVE that choice!

Let me put it in perspective for you: What if raiding wasn't available until and unless you completed all mythic+ dungeons, and wasn't available until some unannounced time after 7.0? You'd still be perfectly fine with it?

The worst part is that even that setup would be better than how flying is being handled, because in that scenario raiding would still get it's own content, unlike flight which is being told that they only get old, outdated content, or nothing at all once it's unlocked.

[Eapoe]

Ok, so you're CHOOSING to play the game in a certain way. You HAVE that choice!

Let me put it in perspective for you: What if raiding wasn't available until and unless you completed all mythic+ dungeons, and wasn't available until some unannounced time after 7.0? You'd still be perfectly fine with it?

The worst part is that even that setup would be better than how flying is being handled, because in that scenario raiding would still get it's own content, unlike flight which is being told that they only get old, outdated content, or nothing at all once it's unlocked.

See what I meant about your trick question and traps?
As far as your response, someone beat you to the punch if you want to read over the last few posts for the response to yours. If you don't want to read, I'll sum up: you are comparing a luxury of travel vs endgame content.

[watatsuya]

Let's make sure to get a thread going that's like 20000 pages long to talk about it for several months.

Only 17713 pages to go!

[CheeseSandwich]

See what I meant about your trick question and traps?
As far as your response, someone beat you to the punch if you want to read over the last few posts for the response to yours. If you don't want to read, I'll sum up: you are comparing a luxury of travel vs endgame content.

what if travel is my end game content? Am I wrong? If so, who says?

It is not a trick question. It is phrasing the situation in a way that hopefully you will understand and relate to. All you are doing is going "ahahaha! I nearly got your point there!! But nope! Thankfully I ducked just in time and it sailed gracefully over my head! It sure was graceful though, looked like it had some logic to it. Oh well, back to the train track thinking I was on, where was I, oh yeah, Everyone MUST play like me!, Are you suggesting they don't? IMPOSSIBLE, EVERYONE MUST PLAY LIKE ME, ALL MY FRIENDS DO."

[SirCowdog]

I have flight now, and I just skip things left and right, I don't travel, I fly up, autorun, and tab out a few minutes until I get where I'm going.

And every time you do that you're admitting that getting where you're going is more important and interesting that all that "content" on the ground between points. Or are you willfully choosing to give up on your competitive edge that you'd otherwise get by travelling on the ground?

[Eapoe]

I never mentioned mobs and mats, what I meant was freedom of travel. Skipping things is way better achieved with flight paths and portals, and flying doesn't trivialize ANY content, because YOU CAN NOT COMPLETE ANY CONTENT HOVERING ABOVE IT. You have to land to do it. If it is compelling, fun, rewarding and/or cool to do, players will do it regardless.

Getting the lego ring is entirely optional. Not every player, in fact the extreme vast majority show no compulsion to get into mythic raiding. Good for you having fun without flight in WoD, but the facts are the overwhelming majority wanted flight back in the game. If you recognize you skip things now, and you think it is a detriment to your game, why don't you stop flying? Why does the fact YOU feel you are skipping things mean I have to suffer in my enjoyment of the game?

Immersion is to you what getting stuck in traffic is to me. I could do without your immersion ty. Your immersion adds zero to my gameplay.

That frantic race is totally there when flying as well. See TLPD, Aeonaxx, the Time Lost Camel Figurine and others.
Where did I say I fly around doing nothing? I said people use flight for their end game, just as others use min maxing for their endgame. They aren't wrong, it is what they choose to do with their time. Even so, if I wanna log on, chuck on some music, and fly around aimlessly, who the fuck are you to tell me that is wrong?

Now that pathfinder is in, we are working for flight, just as much as working for raiding. That said, earning flight was no where near trivial before, it was usually a hefty gold sink. Cool, if all that work is what you enjoy, more power to you, but if the same limitations were put on raiding that are being put on flight, ie do all the work and then you won't even get what you want (let's call it a raidwalker achieve that is equal to pathfinder 7.0), then if you had empathy you might see that people who don't care about raiding, but do care about flying, being a bit pissed off.

If you UNDERSTAND why people quit over the flying issue and why we are talking about it, THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ARGUING FOR. "Oh I totally get your guyses point and all, I see what you mean, but what I like doing is different, so you must be wrong regardless".

Here is where you continue to not understand. Flying takes players to content they want to do. If they are skipping content, then it isn't worth doing for them. If flying, and flying around alone, IS my only form of end game content, why is that being discouraged? If I use flying to do content in the world I want to do efficiently, freely and with the option to stop and do anything else in the world on my way to that content, as opposed to ports and fps that don't give me that option, how is that a bad thing?

To sum up this whole post as briefly as possible. You can not complete OBJECTIVES/QUESTS hovering over them. You can however complete them while flying over them, landing, clicking objective/quest objects, and flying back out. The only exception to this is when you have to kill a named mob.
Facts are only 1/2 the playerbase left during WoD from previous released numbers. With that in account, factoring people left because of no flight, boredom, out growing the game, any real life issues, etc, then not everyone left because of flight. In fact, 1/2 the playerbase stayed, which means the majority are fine with it not being in the game.
Yes, you are now working for flight. What's the point here? Are you saying you're upset because you work for a luxury or are you upset you have to work in general?
I've showed I understand why people are upset, and I empathize with them. I am not arguing that fact. I'm arguing the baseless claims that people state that having flight inherently make it better, or that designing endgame content with flight in mind how CowDog suggests won't work because the things people argue against (safe travel areas, tedious mobs, travel specific areas) are moves from the ground and put into the air. It's taking what he doesn't want and relocating it to where he does want it, it doesn't make sense. I'm arguing the points people make (example: you here) in comparing a luxury and convenience to endgame content. Having no flight doesn't prevent you from seeing everything in game, it just makes it easier to travel point A to point B. Again, a luxury.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing. You just stated in your last paragraph the issue you are stating doesn't happen. You want flight to travel easier (skip world obstacles), stop when you want (skip everything between), vs ports/FPs that take you to a specific world and have you interact with the world (not skipping content). Your last post summed everything up to trivialize the gameplay.

[SirCowdog]

See what I meant about your trick question and traps?
As far as your response, someone beat you to the punch if you want to read over the last few posts for the response to yours. If you don't want to read, I'll sum up: you are comparing a luxury of travel vs endgame content.

Ok, so basically every time I poke a hole in your arguments it's a trick. Got it. Why do you ever reply to this thread if you're just going to ignore anything that doesn't agree with your own narrow point of view?

[Eapoe]

And every time you do that you're admitting that getting where you're going is more important and interesting that all that "content" on the ground between points. Or are you willfully choosing to give up on your competitive edge that you'd otherwise get by travelling on the ground?

Nope, I'm admitting that flight let's me trivialize the game and not have to pay attention to anything.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok, so basically every time I poke a hole in your arguments it's a trick. Got it. Why do you ever reply to this thread if you're just going to ignore anything that doesn't agree with your own narrow point of view?

No, you aren't poking holes in anything. You asked me a question that does not have a real answer. I was damned if I do and damned if I don't, as so easily pointed out by your posts and Cheese's post since. I wonder what the posts would have been like if I answered the other way...
You didn't argue against anything I previously stated, you didn't prove anything I said wrong, you asked a trick question. I just chose to answer it to humor you and we are now here, with you and Cheese trying to use my answer against me, and so far not working.

[SirCowdog]

Nope, I'm admitting that flight let's me trivialize the game and not have to pay attention to anything.

Except the content which you actually land and do because THAT'S what's interesting, and not the garbage in-between. Or did you magically level up and farm mats and rep by just sitting in once place, hovering above everything? You're arguments just don't hold up.

No, you aren't poking holes in anything. You asked me a question that does not have a real answer. I was damned if I do and damned if I don't, as so easily pointed out by your posts and Cheese's post since. I wonder what the posts would have been like if I answered the other way...
You didn't argue against anything I previously stated, you didn't prove anything I said wrong, you asked a trick question. I just chose to answer it to humor you and we are now here, with you and Cheese trying to use my answer against me, and so far not working.

It was a response to an example YOU WROTE!!! If you're not even willing to defend comparisons and criticisms to your own arguments, then you're just sticking your head in the sand. You're so afraid of any idea or argument that challenges your point of view that you've decided that everything is a trick. You know what? It's not a trick, it's just an effort to get you to look at the issue from a different point of view than your own dogged, super-narrow, unwavering defense of a failing idea.

How many times do we have to say it? If the "content" in-between objectives was actually worth doing, then people WOULD do it. But as long as it's just a ratmaze with nothing of interest or value, it will continue to be skipped and ignored, whether from the ground or the air. And if Blizzard changes that and makes it worth doing, then people WILL do it, whether from the ground or the air.

[hyphnos]

To sum up this whole post as briefly as possible. You can not complete OBJECTIVES/QUESTS hovering over them. You can however complete them while flying over them, landing, clicking objective/quest objects, and flying back out. The only exception to this is when you have to kill a named mob.
Facts are only 1/2 the playerbase left during WoD from previous released numbers. With that in account, factoring people left because of no flight, boredom, out growing the game, any real life issues, etc, then not everyone left because of flight. In fact, 1/2 the playerbase stayed, which means the majority are fine with it not being in the game.
Yes, you are now working for flight. What's the point here? Are you saying you're upset because you work for a luxury or are you upset you have to work in general?
I've showed I understand why people are upset, and I empathize with them. I am not arguing that fact. I'm arguing the baseless claims that people state that having flight inherently make it better, or that designing endgame content with flight in mind how CowDog suggests won't work because the things people argue against (safe travel areas, tedious mobs, travel specific areas) are moves from the ground and put into the air. It's taking what he doesn't want and relocating it to where he does want it, it doesn't make sense. I'm arguing the points people make (example: you here) in comparing a luxury and convenience to endgame content. Having no flight doesn't prevent you from seeing everything in game, it just makes it easier to travel point A to point B. Again, a luxury.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing. You just stated in your last paragraph the issue you are stating doesn't happen. You want flight to travel easier (skip world obstacles), stop when you want (skip everything between), vs ports/FPs that take you to a specific world and have you interact with the world (not skipping content). Your last post summed everything up to trivialize the gameplay.

You're just spouting the same horsecrap arguments that Bashiok or whoever gave with his "guy in a castle nonsense" and displaying either 1) total ignorance of how questing and quest hubs work in wow or 2) just being willfully ignorant so you sound like you're making a point by ignoring reality.

You cannot "complete quests by flying over quests and objects" and not interact with the mobs that are placed near them.
You cannot complete a kill X quest by flying over anything.

Quest hubs do not generally allow you to progress forward in a line until you have been lead around by the nose by Blizzard interacting with some of everything they deem important enough to make a quest objective. Most times there is a kill X of something involved in every hub and every set of interlaid quest. it is 10000 million billion per cent in Blizzard's control how much of their precious overworld content you interact with and no amount of silly arguments about flying over something trivializing everything in the universe is going to alter the REALITY of that.

Make all the blanket denials you want - you just set yourself against objective reality to anyone who understands how questing works in WoW. Flying over shit doesn't make you loremaster, nor does it make it particularly easier as the number of trash you have to kill to complete questlines is set at a baseline minimum by the quests themselves and literally EVERYTHING else is going to vary by the person depending on the number of players in the area and such but NOBODY can get around the minimums and if doing more than the quests required was actually important, then Blizzard would and can adjust the numbers upward in the quests themselves.

[CheeseSandwich]

To sum up this whole post as briefly as possible. You can not complete OBJECTIVES/QUESTS hovering over them. You can however complete them while flying over them, landing, clicking objective/quest objects, and flying back out. The only exception to this is when you have to kill a named mob.
Facts are only 1/2 the playerbase left during WoD from previous released numbers. With that in account, factoring people left because of no flight, boredom, out growing the game, any real life issues, etc, then not everyone left because of flight. In fact, 1/2 the playerbase stayed, which means the majority are fine with it not being in the game.
Yes, you are now working for flight. What's the point here? Are you saying you're upset because you work for a luxury or are you upset you have to work in general?
I've showed I understand why people are upset, and I empathize with them. I am not arguing that fact. I'm arguing the baseless claims that people state that having flight inherently make it better, or that designing endgame content with flight in mind how CowDog suggests won't work because the things people argue against (safe travel areas, tedious mobs, travel specific areas) are moves from the ground and put into the air. It's taking what he doesn't want and relocating it to where he does want it, it doesn't make sense. I'm arguing the points people make (example: you here) in comparing a luxury and convenience to endgame content. Having no flight doesn't prevent you from seeing everything in game, it just makes it easier to travel point A to point B. Again, a luxury.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing. You just stated in your last paragraph the issue you are stating doesn't happen. You want flight to travel easier (skip world obstacles), stop when you want (skip everything between), vs ports/FPs that take you to a specific world and have you interact with the world (not skipping content). Your last post summed everything up to trivialize the gameplay.

If that is all it takes to complete an objective, isn't that a failure of game /quest design and not worthy of stripping a feature people love? So, you have to land? Why aren't there a ton of mobs around that objective, or a quest to make me kill those mobs, or anything else that could easily be added to stop this scourge of a one off example of a possible scenario that may happen in the world on the off chance while someone is at max level with a rare opportune chance to be a little bit efficient? HOLY SHIT GAME BROKEN.

Oh, only half the player base left? Well, thank fuck, i thought it was a goodly portion, but only 50% of 10 million? That's nothing. That's only a quarter of my countries population. Ain't no thang. Also, no one worth taking seriously has said 5 million people left from flight alone. Most have said it was a combination of things, with flight being the final straw. The fact that, from the last point we know of (the last time Blizz reported subs) half of the population were still playing doesn't automatically mean they are ok with no flight, and since when is half a majority??

You are the demi god at missing the point. It is amazing. You said you work for raiding, I said we now have to work about the same amount to unlock flight, so I implied what if raiding unlocked like flight is going to? Ie over a series of patches, with gradual increments on insights into the raid, until you are finally able to enter it on the second or 3rd, or whenever patch. That would sure solve the content drought problem!!

You are also blatantly missing the point of people using flight for their personal endgames. Just as you work towards raiding to fulfill goals, they use flying to fulfill goals. Just cuz they have differing goals to you, doesn't make them wrong.

Look, Blizz was able to do the things with flight you find so rediculous in previous expansions. It is not our fault that you, or Blizz lack the imagination that previos devs of the game had. Expacs were designed with players flying, just like new titles are doing now. It is totally possible to have a world where both ground and air play are interactive and entertaining, it is just up to the people making the game to think about it more than blizz's, and your "nope". Use your imagination.

Not raiding until the last patch doesn't prevent you from seeing everything in the game, it just makes it easier to overpower all the other content. It is a luxury of gear. Now, I KNOW that is a fallacy, the sad thing is, you CAN'T see that players OTHER THAN YOU will play the game in a totally different way to you, thus you lack empathy. What is a luxury to you I rely on to have fun, and until you pay my sub fee, you can't convince me otherwise.

Fuck me mate, how can you honestly defend that position. Flight paths and portals skip world obstacles and everything in between AUTOMATICALLY. There is no option to stop and smell the roses. With personal flight, I interact with the world everytime I want too, I'm not forced to auto fly past it, i'm not skipping it all together via a loading screen, I am physically present in the world, able to interact with it at any point in time.

You should be anti ANY type of fast travel device, because they all blow flying out of the sky in regards to skipping world obstacles and skipping everything in between. Oh, but you understand where we are coming from, give me a break, you condescending berk.

[SirCowdog]

Fuck me mate, how can you honestly defend that position.

He can't. He's just afraid of changing his mind, or of being "wrong". It's easier to ignore the issue than to change his stance.

[CheeseSandwich]

He can't. He's just afraid of changing his mind, or of being "wrong". It's easier to ignore the issue than to change his stance.

He "understands", it's just all so confusing and wrong. Why can't everyone just play the game like him? Then there wouldn't be a problem, jeez guys.


Edit, just found this old pic from the last flying thread that I thinks describes part of what I'm getting at in picture form. Hopefully this is more understandable for people.

[Eapoe]

I believe you guys are the ones missing the point here. You asked me a question in response of fairness to where there is no correct answer. I indulged and answered it to where you both immediately say "then cancel X because it's fair right?" If I had answered it's not fair you turn the topic into me agreeing with you.
You then went on to compare how I choose how I want to play. Well, yes, I do choose how I want to play in the confines of the games design, raid and/or mythic+ dungeons and world content thrown in with it. These are designed in the game, where as you are trying to state choosing to fly is an option when it simply isn't, because it's not in game at launch. Later on, when you have worked for it; you will have the luxury and you can choose to play that way.
Then, Cheese expressly posts that he wants flying to skip content and trivialize gameplay, by saying he wants easier travel and the ability to stop skipping the world where he sees fit. You can't argue this as I very pointedly showed in a previous post.
Now you are trying to say I can't admit that I'm wrong. Wrong about what? The fact that I play the game how I choose in the confines of the design? That it's fair that Blizzard makes the game how they see fit, and if you don't like it to a point you can't stand playing then you should quit?
The simple fact is that you guys can't agree that flight skips content. No matter how you try to justify it, it's not necessary in WoD, so far it's not necessary in Legion, and these 2 small details turns flight into a luxury, not a playstyle choice of a necessity. If there was content made for it with floating islands, dungeon/raid entrances, etc, we wouldn't be having this debate. The game is not made with these things though, so there is no need for it. There is a want for it by players that have become accustomed to it, that is all.

[Dr Jones]

It should be locked in X.0, and then unlocked in X.1. I'd rather not have a meta, but it is what it is.

[SirCowdog]

I believe you guys are the ones missing the point here. You asked me a question in response of fairness to where there is no correct answer. I indulged and answered it to where you both immediately say "then cancel X because it's fair right?" If I had answered it's not fair you turn the topic into me agreeing with you.
You then went on to compare how I choose how I want to play. Well, yes, I do choose how I want to play in the confines of the games design, raid and/or mythic+ dungeons and world content thrown in with it. These are designed in the game, where as you are trying to state choosing to fly is an option when it simply isn't, because it's not in game at launch. Later on, when you have worked for it; you will have the luxury and you can choose to play that way.
Then, Cheese expressly posts that he wants flying to skip content and trivialize gameplay, by saying he wants easier travel and the ability to stop skipping the world where he sees fit. You can't argue this as I very pointedly showed in a previous post.
Now you are trying to say I can't admit that I'm wrong. Wrong about what? The fact that I play the game how I choose in the confines of the design? That it's fair that Blizzard makes the game how they see fit, and if you don't like it to a point you can't stand playing then you should quit?
The simple fact is that you guys can't agree that flight skips content. No matter how you try to justify it, it's not necessary in WoD, so far it's not necessary in Legion, and these 2 small details turns flight into a luxury, not a playstyle choice of a necessity. If there was content made for it with floating islands, dungeon/raid entrances, etc, we wouldn't be having this debate. The game is not made with these things though, so there is no need for it. There is a want for it by players that have become accustomed to it, that is all.

We agree that it skips dull, boring, uninteresting, needless speedbump and timeskink filler content. Withholding flight until an unspecified time and then pointing to that same worthless 'content' as a good reason for what it's supposedly meant to preserve is fucking terrible. You persistently choose to ignore the fact that we've repeated over and over that if they content is good, people WILL play it, regardless of if they're flying or not. That's on YOU, not us.

If you want to 'enjoy' that kind of horrible, time-wasting filler bullshit, then that's your choice. But don't try to defend it as something that's good for the game, or pretend that it's good enough content to justify the removal of a feature that a large number of people WANT to enjoy, but can't because Blizzard is being stupid. Delaying flight and filling the world with mazelike zones that players are forced to trudge through is nothing more than a time-gate on the real content. You can pretend and dissemble and avoid this fact all you want, but that doesn't change what it is.

[Mafic]

In hardcore Korean MMOs each mob is relevant because XP is hard to come by. That is why fighting everymob on your way to your main objective works as a design in those games because a player can receives some benefit from it.

Blizzard has gone out of there way in many ways to make many mobs irrelevant at max level once leveling is done. That is why trying to apply the Everquest/ Lineage 2,etc model of having to fight and slug it out on the ground doesn't work with WoW.

Even with the mobs leveling up in the Legion alpha and being scaled to 110 they simply flop over because of stupid ilevel increases.

Flying never trivialized the world..it was the stupid ilevels increases in short periods of time...were are closing in on an ilevel of 1000 ROFLMAO.

Let me add that Blizz has added mechanisms that also discourages farming mobs in large numbers or long periods of time. A mechanism kicks in that decreases the drops from mobs if you try to keep killing them in a short period of time by staying in the same location.

WoW isn't built for a ground and pound game play out in the world. It is not Arch Age, Lineage 2, or Black Desert.

[Maudib]

To sum up this whole post as briefly as possible. You can not complete OBJECTIVES/QUESTS hovering over them. You can however complete them while flying over them, landing, clicking objective/quest objects, and flying back out. The only exception to this is when you have to kill a named mob.
Facts are only 1/2 the playerbase left during WoD from previous released numbers. With that in account, factoring people left because of no flight, boredom, out growing the game, any real life issues, etc, then not everyone left because of flight. In fact, 1/2 the playerbase stayed, which means the majority are fine with it not being in the game.

Not flying til MAX level negates skipping content... as you level you are stuck on the ground and "enjoying the gameplay" as designed. If endgame world quests still rely on picking up objects then that is lazy, uninspired development. Or like in previous exp packs... make a zone with no flying... but DON'T ground me all over the new areas after I already fucking experienced it. Let me work, grind, farm, LET ME FLY. But not in the last content patch where it's not worth doing anymore and no flying prevents me from even wanting to play anymore.


Facts are... of the "half" that stayed... it was BECAUSE flying was enabled even if they had to work for it. Had it not been enabled... the game would have lost WAY more than half the subs in 6 months. And you quote "last released subs"... there's only ONE reason to not release subs.. they dropped a LOT more since the last report. More flyers quitting after they achieved flight.

Why is this bad news? Because in Legion they are going to think (like that VAST majority of us do) that they are leaving game after experiencing it for a month or two or not buying at all). Why? Because in WoD even those that stayed realized that waiting til the last content patch HURT the game and their enjoyment of it. And that there is no reason to work toward flying if the game is already "over".

The ONLY reason there is even this many people anymore is the masswive gold leak Garrison's are putting out... that's why they are waiting until 7.0 to nerf it.. they KNOW if they nerf it sooner.. it's game fucking over.

[Mafic]

The losses would have piled on if flying was not re-introduced. It stopped the bleeding of subs along with the introduction of merc mode for Alliance as their queues for Ashran reached in the hours. Without those two key features added to a patch in late summer/early fall WoD would have been in a big amount of pain.

Blizzard received a bloody nose for treating everything non raiding as irrelevant and has learned even PVP, flying, pet battles, world quests need to be supported and continued to be developed

Flying is the red line, because it is the main feature of the old dev team and the new dev team is trying to put their stamp on things but trying to remove it.