No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Mafic]

not surprising at all - looking at the stunt they did with talent system and how shitty they made it atm legion shapes up slowly to be another turd just like wod wrapped into silver paper of PR of "we giving you world quests"

-talent system is shit
-no flying till god knows when
-1000% more rng in form of titanforged and legendaries
-tunign will be all over place probably due to artifacts required to be maxed out
-classes got oversimplified
-order halls required instead being side content
-retarded rep grinds
-retarded mana grinds in suramar that offer no gear progressions

blizzard has less and less time to fix it up

Just watch the slow motion train wreck for what it will be.

To me the rep grinds for part one of patch finder pretty much nails what will be wrong with the entire expansion. This will blindside a lot of players and a lot of players goodwill towards patfhinder for WoD will evaporate for patch finder in Legion.

[Apo84]

No flying until lets say, last patch, will be rubbish.

[CheeseSandwich]

That is probably a bug.

99% sure it's a bug

Let's hope, but haven't seen an official response to it yet.

Yeah they are putting in gimmicks again because there is no garrison hearthstone or class order hall hearthstone to cut down on travel time.

"Want help skipping the world on your way to skipping the world? Then use this!"

Losing the class order hall teleports is a real shame imo, from what I saw each class had there own animation, and some of them looked really cool.

[Dhrizzle]

Just watch the slow motion train wreck for what it will be.

To me the rep grinds for part one of patch finder pretty much nails what will be wrong with the entire expansion. This will blindside a lot of players and a lot of players goodwill towards patfhinder for WoD will evaporate for patch finder in Legion.

I'm not too happy about rep grinds but at least it isn't like MoP where gear progression is gated behind them, with the final stage being a patch or two down the line there should be plenty of time to get them out of the way. Ideally it will be like Tanaan where the rep was finished whilst I was still doing the content for gear and upgrades.

[SirCowdog]

not surprising at all - looking at the stunt they did with talent system and how shitty they made it atm legion shapes up slowly to be another turd just like wod wrapped into silver paper of PR of "we giving you world quests"

-talent system is shit
-no flying till god knows when
-1000% more rng in form of titanforged and legendaries
-tunign will be all over place probably due to artifacts required to be maxed out
-classes got oversimplified
-order halls required instead being side content
-retarded rep grinds
-retarded mana grinds in suramar that offer no gear progressions

blizzard has less and less time to fix it up

They also just locked Suramar dungeons behind rep grind on the beta servers as well. What a trainwreck this expansion is looking to be.

[Dhrizzle]

They also just locked Suramar dungeons behind rep grind on the beta servers as well. What a trainwreck this expansion is looking to be.

I'm in a wait-and-see mood about the rep grinds. Some people actually liked the way MoP and TBC made rep important to your progression and my guess is this is Blizzard trying to bring back a similar feeling.

[Deleted]

Flying in Draenor is fun, but after playing abit on the beta, the landscape is too good-looking to spend the first few days grinding an achi to instantly fly and then ignore it for the rest of the expac.

[MoanaLisa]

They also just locked Suramar dungeons behind rep grind on the beta servers as well. What a trainwreck this expansion is looking to be.

I'm pretty sure you are correct. The sort of player who wants everything given to them or available for a simple gold cost are going to dislike having to play the game to get rewards and will probably view it as some sort of nightmare.

Others will be happy enough to have things to do to unlock those rewards. That at least is clear as day.

[SirCowdog]

I'm pretty sure you are correct. The sort of player who wants everything given to them or available for a simple gold cost are going to dislike having to play the game to get rewards and will probably view it as some sort of nightmare.

Others will be happy enough to have things to do to unlock those rewards. That at least is clear as day.

Gimme a break. You know damn well the issue isn't that simplistic. Frankly, I'm disappointed you'd even try to imply that this is about lack of effort, or a desire to have everything instantly available without effort. When has anyone ever suggested that everything be purchasable for gold? Or that they "want everything given to them"?

[MoanaLisa]

Gimme a break. You know damn well the issue isn't that simplistic. Frankly, I'm disappointed you'd even try to imply that this is about lack of effort, or a desire to have everything instantly available without effort. When has anyone ever suggested that everything be purchasable for gold? Or that they "want everything given to them"?

A lot of the discussion as of late is complaining about gating of one kind or another. Gating is inherent in any form of progression: X before Y and finish Y before Z. You are convinced that developers are designing the game to be a money-grab. There is another point of view in which the developers are now reacting to the avalanche of complaints from Warlords about nothing to do. My preference is to have something to do. And all of those things should contribute a bit toward character progression which by necessity has gating as a piece of it. It's an obvious observation that if you do not care for having to do much to obtain rewards then it much be true that you want rewards for doing less. Little or much is a subjective thing but after the Warlords experience I'll be happy enough to keep busy pursuing rewards of personal interest. Including flying.

[Dhrizzle]

A lot of the discussion as of late is complaining about gating of one kind or another. Gating is inherent in any form of progression: X before Y and finish Y before Z. You are convinced that developers are designing the game to be a money-grab. There is another point of view in which the developers are now reacting to the avalanche of complaints from Warlords about nothing to do. My preference is to have something to do. And all of those things should contribute a bit toward character progression which by necessity has gating as a piece of it. It's an obvious observation that if you do not care for having to do much to obtain rewards then it much be true that you want rewards for doing less. Little or much is a subjective thing but after the Warlords experience I'll be happy enough to keep busy pursuing rewards of personal interest. Including flying.

From what I've read, the issue isn't so much having to do X before Y, but rather the activities to achieve X having a daily cap, so players may only be able to work towards X for half-an-hour a day before they run out of things they can do and have to wait until tomorrow.

That isn't to say that this sort of gating is good or bad, but some people will like it and others will dislike it. Personally I tend towards the latter camp depending on how restrictive it is. I didn't have a problem with Tanaan but I really wasn't a fan of MoP's dailies.

[SirCowdog]

A lot of the discussion as of late is complaining about gating of one kind or another. Gating is inherent in any form of progression: X before Y and finish Y before Z. You are convinced that developers are designing the game to be a money-grab. There is another point of view in which the developers are now reacting to the avalanche of complaints from Warlords about nothing to do. My preference is to have something to do. And all of those things should contribute a bit toward character progression which by necessity has gating as a piece of it. It's an obvious observation that if you do not care for having to do much to obtain rewards then it much be true that you want rewards for doing less. Little or much is a subjective thing but after the Warlords experience I'll be happy enough to keep busy pursuing rewards of personal interest. Including flying.

I am convinced that PARTS of the design are designed to extend the amount of time required to complete certain stages of progression. It's no different than how a high-end raider will fully optimize their gear down to the smallest percent of performance increase. Or if you don't like that analogy, then think of it like having the odds always be in the favor of the house at a casino. When you're dealing with profits that are based on MILLIONS of subscriptions, even the smallest change can net an increase.

My problem is that Blizzard is putting these filler and extending mechanics into as many aspects of the game as possible. It's not about making the game better, it's about pushing the limits of what players will accept. Slowing down flight paths, gating dungeons behind rep grinds, gating flight behind pathfinder, removing Order Hall hearths, bad ratios of travel vs completing on world quests, forcing players to return to base to change talents, etc, etc, etc. Taken individually they don't seem like that big of a deal, but when you start looking at them all combined it forms a pattern.

Having objectives to pursue is one thing. But having those objectives locked behind filler is another.

[Mafic]

Flying in Draenor is fun, but after playing abit on the beta, the landscape is too good-looking to spend the first few days grinding an achi to instantly fly and then ignore it for the rest of the expac.

Legion is too maze like to enjoy the design. To me the fact they abandoned vanilla style maps shows they don't understand the problems.

[wing5wong]

Legion is too maze like to enjoy the design. To me the fact they abandoned vanilla style maps shows they don't understand the problems.

What are you talking about? the zones and hubs flow well into one another.
Do you want every zone to be ungoro crater or something because damn, that would be terrible

[Kyriani]

What are you talking about? the zones and hubs flow well into one another.
Do you want every zone to be ungoro crater or something because damn, that would be terrible

A zone designed to be what amounts to a single winding path, that snakes back and forth, purely to lengthen travel time, with few if any direct routes to places you want to go, is equally terrible. Spires of Arak makes for a good example.

[Mafic]

A zone designed to be what amounts to a single winding path, that snakes back and forth, purely to lengthen travel time, with few if any direct routes to places you want to go, is equally terrible. Spires of Arak makes for a good example.

Yeah it doesn't work for an open world MMORPG to make it maze like. It makes it feel like a single player game and exploration is punished.

That is why sand box MMORPGs and even theme park MMORPGs agree on this principle that player exploration shouldn't be restricted by forcing players on certain paths throughout the world.

[wing5wong]

A zone designed to be what amounts to a single winding path, that snakes back and forth, purely to lengthen travel time, with few if any direct routes to places you want to go, is equally terrible. Spires of Arak makes for a good example.

No.just no.
its not designed purely to lengthen travel time. it suits the zones terrain.

Get off this idea that everything blizzard does it to extend the time you are doing nothing.

wow is not an open world mmo with the same idea of 'exploration' that some games have.
You can go do your own thing, thats fine, but it doesnt mean the content is there.

[MoanaLisa]

A zone designed to be what amounts to a single winding path, that snakes back and forth, purely to lengthen travel time, with few if any direct routes to places you want to go, is equally terrible. Spires of Arak makes for a good example.

This is how mountainous regions are in the real world. It's not necessarily to lengthen travel time. It would look and frankly be stupid to have straight roads over terrain of this type. The statement that the zone amounts to a single winding path is incorrect as a look at the map would easily show. Get your flying achievement and fly over zones of this type if you wish. It's perfectly legitimate to have winding roads in this type of terrain.

[Mafic]

This is how mountainous regions are in the real world. It's not necessarily to lengthen travel time. It would look and frankly be stupid to have straight roads over terrain of this type. The statement that the zone amounts to a single winding path is incorrect as a look at the map would easily show. Get your flying achievement and fly over zones of this type if you wish. It's perfectly legitimate to have winding roads in this type of terrain.

No that isn't true at all.

Winding trails in mountainous regions in the real world (eg goat paths) are human constructs designed to easier navigate mountainous terrain.

As for game play there are vanilla maps that retain realistic gemorphological features of mountainous regions without punishing exploration like the WoD and Legion maps do (eg Stormheim).

- - - Updated - - -

A zone designed to be what amounts to a single winding path, that snakes back and forth, purely to lengthen travel time, with few if any direct routes to places you want to go, is equally terrible. Spires of Arak makes for a good example.

Agreed and a good example of poor zone design.

[wing5wong]

No that isn't true at all.

Winding trails in mountainous regions in the real world (eg goat paths) are human constructs designed to easier navigate mountainous terrain.

As for game play there are vanilla maps that retain realistic gemorphological features of mountainous regions without punishing exploration like the WoD and Legion maps do (eg Stormheim).

- - - Updated - - -



Agreed and a good example of poor zone design.

Just stop. stop.
Winding trails are not even an issue in spires outside of what, the entry point? after that every piece of content is in pretty much flat ground, with the only mountainous areas being on the edges of the paths.
You arent required to trek up down and around the sides of mountains, you follow the (pretty much) straight path to the next quest hub.