No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Zalamander]

I preferred having the level-cap content feel like the leveling content. WotLK, Cata and MoP all gave you flight once you hit lvl 80 and suddenly the open world changed from feeling like an adventure to you zipping around completing chores to compliment your dungeons, raiding or whatever you were repping up for. WoD's level-cap content was poorly incentivised and restricted but I found the treasure-hunting and Apexis zones to be far more fun than any of the daily-zones that came with an expansion's release.

Yeah, I agree WotLK didn't have much of world content to offer in terms of exploration except a few rare things to camp for or so. MoP however was WoW at its prime for me. plenty of fun rare mobs to kill over and over again, lots of treasures to find. None of this was broken because of flying, on the contrary because there was no flying in WoD I coulden't be arsed to enjoy this simlar world content. However I'm very sad that you got maps spoiling where all treasures are in WoD and all rares could only be killed once and gave you all the spoils then the game was finished... :< sure tanaan brought some real rares again but then it was already too late to be enjoyable.

[skannerz22]

[Mafic]

WotLK offered a lot of exploration...pick pocketing zombies, cultists, exploring Crystal Song Forest....flying to the tower in Dragon Blight...flying to Zul Darak...flying to the PVP areas of Wintergrasp, going underground in Dragon Blights caverns...

WotLK was the perfect expansion for exploring a sandbox environment from surface level, underground, from the air or even inspecting Titan architecture. Everything about that expansion was amazing.

[Zalamander]

WotLK offered a lot of exploration...pick pocketing zombies, cultists, exploring Crystal Song Forest....flying to the tower in Dragon Blight...flying to Zul Darak...flying to the PVP areas of Wintergrasp, going underground in Dragon Blights caverns...

WotLK was the perfect expansion for exploring a sandbox environment from surface level, underground, from the air or even inspecting Titan architecture. Everything about that expansion was amazing.

Ye it sure was ok probably I just don't remember spending much time outdoors because I don't like winter zones much. I spent most of my time in the only none winter zone kinda, my favorit, scholazar basin. :P all other time I spent camping for Timelost proto drake, since I liked something cool to fly.

[MoanaLisa]

I'll put it this way - do you enjoy getting dazed and dismounted by everyone and their grandma? If yes you're in for a treat. If no - I'm sure you'll learn to love it eventually.

People complained about this in Warlords. From what I saw it was pretty much bad players who this happened to all the time. I think I got caught and stunned twice all expansion and both times it was my fault. You just need to pay attention and not do dumb things like try and run right past mobs that you don't want to fight.

[Mafic]

People complained about this in Warlords. From what I saw it was pretty much bad players who this happened to all the time. I think I got caught and stunned twice all expansion and both times it was my fault. You just need to pay attention and not do dumb things like try and run right past mobs that you don't want to fight.

In Legion with mob scaling that will be more frequent with mob dazing as well as larger aggro radius and leashing. Also the distribution of NPCS is more clustered given how tiny the Broken Isles is as they are dropped on the map in a clustered manner.

There is a reason why players are saying they are going to "save" Stormheim/High Mountain as last level zones to complete. I would argue with scaling of NPCs it would be better to do those zones first if the goal is to reach 110 quickly.

[wing5wong]

Mob dazing is only an issue for players running directly through mobs with their backs to them, exactly as it is now

- - - Updated - - -

You also out scale mobs as you level with gear. Again, not an issue.
It is very easy to pull and kill multiple mobs

[Daffan]

A content drought is when the game has no new content released in over a year. It's a legitimate question to ask why that is.

Sure but most people have never done Highmaul, or mythic dungeons lel

[clevin]

Just look at the bads now for proof of this in WoD. They are;

Happy about: Free & easy high item level conquest/honor gear (700), LFR gear (695), Baleful (705).

Complaining about: No relevant content, nothing worth doing, why is there content drought?

It's like a self fulfilling prophecy. When all they do is hit level 100, afk in a battleground/lfr.

TO be fair... what else IS there to do in WoD? It's not like they shipped new high level quest hubs (*cough* Faralhon...) or any post release 5 mans. Yes, there are mythic 5s but a) try doing those with quest greens at 100 and b) they're not new content, they're a new difficulty level. If you've run them a lot as heroics there's nothing really new about them

[SirCowdog]

Sure but most people have never done Highmaul, or mythic dungeons lel

I agree that people complaining about having nothing to do is silly if they still have both heroic, mythic, and challenge modes to do. But that has nothing to do with the development cycle that includes year long periods with nothing new being released.

[Dhrizzle]

WotLK offered a lot of exploration...pick pocketing zombies, cultists, exploring Crystal Song Forest....flying to the tower in Dragon Blight...flying to Zul Darak...flying to the PVP areas of Wintergrasp, going underground in Dragon Blights caverns...

WotLK was the perfect expansion for exploring a sandbox environment from surface level, underground, from the air or even inspecting Titan architecture. Everything about that expansion was amazing.

Borean Tundra, Dragonblight and Icecrown were all pretty dull (apart from the mechanognome bit in the Tundra.) Grizzly Hills had some good bits but spent too long recycling the corrupt Furbolg theme from Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale and Felwood. Zul'Drak was cool but got a bit samey after a while.

Howling Fjord, the eastern side of Grizzly Hills and Stormpeaks were all excellent, the genesis of the human, gnomes and dwarfs with the corruption of the Titan watchers peaking in Ulduar was some of the best content in WoW and easily overshadowed the Scourge and dragon parts of the expansion.

[Deleted]

WoW's subs could decline at a steady rate for half a decade and some players will blame it on their most recent gripes.

Yes, if they keep ignoring things like statements from Blizzard on why people quit according to their data from the cancelation sheets. There still those.... let's call em "less bright people" that keep saying that "making the game harder will bring back more people", ignoring the FACT that Blizz already tried that and had their first big drop in subs in history. And Blizz stated that most cancelation sheets showed "to hard heroics" as the main reason for quitting. So making the game harder again, won't bring back more players, it makes them leave.

And look at WoD now. Blizz didn't tell what has been the main reason for people to quit. maybe several different reasons divided equally between players that left so that there is no clear main reason. But the Fact that they change their "no flight ever again"-stance way faster than they changed hard heroics after their first "huge sub-loss in WoW history", should speak volumes. But still, you have those "not so bright people" that like to live in denial of simple, obvious facts. It is just the way the community is.

So in the end it doesn't matter what every single players most recent gripes are. There are facts and clues that give a distinct and very well drawn picture of what went wrong. Sure, the age of the game did play a roll, so did the fact that there hasn't been much content outside of raids and facebook style minigames. So all play a big roll in this last incident of player leaving, but looking how many did leave in such a short, never happened before time it should tell you that taking away flight as an idea has been a as bad as forcing the garrison onto everybody or focusing on raiding only.... maybe even more. But none of us knows.

- - - Updated - - -

That's not what the official sub numbers say. Cata's lowest point was 9.1m, a year later MoP had 7.7m (losing 1.4m) after which subs stabilised for a while. MoP's lowest point was 6.8m, a year later WoD had 5.6m (losing 1.2m) after which subs seemed to be stabilising.

You missed the Point between Mop and WoD where the game GAINED massive subs up to a 10 Million peak again. So the people wanted to play, the people wanted WoD to be good.
But you are right: there is always a way to make disastrous numbers look "not so bad" after all If you just leave out half of the information and actual data ;-)

[caervek]

You missed the Point between Mop and WoD where the game GAINED massive subs up to a 10 Million peak again. So the people wanted to play, the people wanted WoD to be good.

Indeed, I think the fact that MoP ended with 7.4m subs and WoD is ending with <5m after spiking to >10m at launch shows that WoW still has an potential audience, just not one that will deal with something as bad as WoD. Te hype around WoD gained WoW 2.5m players, WoD itself cost WoW 5m players lol.

Having seen how much better Legion is, it will be interesting to see if there is another spike and how many players it retains.

[Dhrizzle]

You missed the Point between Mop and WoD where the game GAINED massive subs up to a 10 Million peak again. So the people wanted to play, the people wanted WoD to be good.
But you are right: there is always a way to make disastrous numbers look "not so bad" after all If you just leave out half of the information and actual data ;-)

People wanted to play, people did play, people left again. I don't find it surprising that a game which has had over 100 million people playing it will get a surge when a new expansion comes out, I also don't find it surprising that those players are happy to see the new content and move on again. Let's face it, ignoring a peak with an easy explanation (the new expansion) is a more logical way of looking at the subs than the people in this thread who only look at the peak and claim WoD lost half of WoW's subscribers.

[Deleted]

Integrated as in, flying to the ground zone. So excite

- - - Updated - - -



Because it's not needed for the content

The downside... You have to use a flight path and actually work towards obtaining something.
I just can't imagine having to grind rep from honoured to revered. Ridiculous, I actually even start a couple thousand in after levelling

Flying does not magically finishes your quests for you, does not award any loot and only helps to avoid some irrelevant mobs when farming nodes. You still have to do quests, and move from place A to B if you want to achieve something. You just do it in the air and control your character 100%.

[Mafic]

Ye it sure was ok probably I just don't remember spending much time outdoors because I don't like winter zones much. I spent most of my time in the only none winter zone kinda, my favorit, scholazar basin. :P all other time I spent camping for Timelost proto drake, since I liked something cool to fly.

WotLK still felt like an organic game which integrated ground and flying exploration by giving players choices as there was no hand holding. WoD questing and end game experience felt like a lot of hand holding and this burned out players.

That is why Blizzard's ground and pound vision crashed and burned in WoD and it is going to be far worse and far sudden in Legion because they do not have garrison to hide this atrocious design.

[Deleted]

here guys, we spent months buildings this content.
please, dont play it

You don't seem to think about people who play more than one character. I finish all zones and all quests on my main for the story. With my alts, I decide which parts I want to replay - either because of the rewards, or because of story and fluff. A totally linear experience denies me this freedom. WoW is very good in denying freedoms nowadays.

[wing5wong]

Flying does not magically finishes your quests for you, does not award any loot and only helps to avoid some irrelevant mobs when farming nodes. You still have to do quests, and move from place A to B if you want to achieve something. You just do it in the air and control your character 100%.

happy to skip areas and irrelevant mobs at 60% speed (base flying) until you unlock pathfinder then?

- - - Updated - - -

You don't seem to think about people who play more than one character. I finish all zones and all quests on my main for the story. With my alts, I decide which parts I want to replay - either because of the rewards, or because of story and fluff. A totally linear experience denies me this freedom. WoW is very good in denying freedoms nowadays.

i only play 6 alts, guess i dont have a clue how i leveled them.
flying doesnt change the fact that the levelling process is largely linear, at all

[Mafic]

Flying does not magically finishes your quests for you, does not award any loot and only helps to avoid some irrelevant mobs when farming nodes. You still have to do quests, and move from place A to B if you want to achieve something. You just do it in the air and control your character 100%.

Flying also enables you to do side activities that is not associated with questing in a timely manner. Most people do not bother with pet battles or archaelogy without flying.

[Deleted]

You're trying to change the core of the game though, that's the point.
Wow is not an open world adventure game, and has never been designed that way.

Flying 'content' has been limited to targeting reticule bombs and 'extreme gating' of content by requiring you to fly up the mountain to do something.

- - - Updated - - -



I know your stance. You want more flying content. An admirable stance, and I've never said this is a bad position.
Flying as a requirement for playing the game how you want to is not a thing. Wow isn't made as a play your own adventure game.

Flying can be in at 60% speed, the base flight speed, then upgraded after pathfinder is complete. Still an issue? I bet the complaints would remain because the argument isn't actually about flying at this point, it's about doing things as quickly as possible with as little imbetween as possible to slow you down.

We have had 60% flight at the beginning of BC and it was OK. You have had to decide if you will get around faster on the ground (because the way was short enough and did not had many unpassable obstacles) or in the air (because there was this long mountain blocking your path, so you would be faster on the other side by hopping on your flying mount than riding around it). You got your basic flying and could work on to achieving better flying and unlocking addional content like he Netherwing faction. It was a good thing. Now, we are not allowed to take decisions anymore. This is insulting.

Edit: Wrath worked out with flying before max level, because it required for some high level areas. Was a good thing, too. You don't have to be chained to the ground to be able to appreciate that. In fact, I appreciate things more if I am not forced to do them, but decide to engage these activities by myself. This is called intrinsic motivation and it has proven to be stronger than extrinsic motivation, which is achieved solely by rewards and evaporates as soon as the rewards vanish or become irrelevant. Blizzard is all over into extrinsic motivation, and this is wrong, because people only look to the rewards and stop caring about many other things. Blizzard actively destroys the attachment of their players to the game.