No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Deleted]

Flying isn't content, it's convenience. You could say this about heirlooms, and see that it wouldn't really change many opinions.

The fact that you have flying available to you is already more than you can ask for. If you don't understand that, why not ask how Legacy people feel for not being able to play Vanilla. Unlocking an achievement is better than not having the option at all.

They are locking suramar dungeons behind rep and I believe the suramar raid behind those dungeons and I love it. I miss attunements. Flying isn't the same as all those things you listed. Flying can't stand toe to toe with BGs or raids in terms of content. Flying is just a convience not content.

I read "flight is just convenience". If that is the case, why has it being announced as "no flight ever again" had such a huge impact to Blizz and WoW? I mean in WoD, where the top of convenience has been the garrison so you have most content AND almost all rewards right in one place. Flight will never be as convenient as garrisons have been, not in a thousand years. It isn't Blizz made content, that is true. But it certainly is Player made/driven content and definitely more than just "convenience" to others.

No, flight is not only about convenience to others. And just because you don't want / can not understand that doesn't make it being not true. Sure, flight offers convenience. But additionally it offers freedom to pick what ever content you want to do whenever you want. It offers another perspective on the world and the content. And it offers a lot of fun for people.

So if you are just using it to swoop up, hit autofly and land at point B for the convenience of things..... well it isn't my or any others fault if you are just doing it wrong.

[Saiona]

I read "flight is just convenience". If that is the case, why has it being announced as "no flight ever again" had such a huge impact to Blizz and WoW? I mean in WoD, where the top of convenience has been the garrison so you have most content AND almost all rewards right in one place. Flight will never be as convenient as garrisons have been, not in a thousand years. It isn't Blizz made content, that is true. But it certainly is Player made/driven content and definitely more than just "convenience" to others.

No, flight is not only about convenience to others. And just because you don't want / can not understand that doesn't make it being not true. Sure, flight offers convenience. But additionally it offers freedom to pick what ever content you want to do whenever you want. It offers another perspective on the world and the content. And it offers a lot of fun for people.

So if you are just using it to swoop up, hit autofly and land at point B for the convenience of things..... well it isn't my or any others fault if you are just doing it wrong.

I'm "doing" flying wrong lol? What content does flying offer? It would make world quests faster to complete (convenience). It would increase the rate at which you gather materials (convenience). It would be a faster method of getting to raid/mythic+ dungeon entrance (sounds convenient). Faster to get to world bosses (convenience). I'm getting redundant now, but you get the point. I don't see what content flying offers. All I see is the lessening of other content. People want to say vanilla was so filled with content (it was) but a lot of time spent playing vanilla was getting from point A to point B. Flying just makes the game go by faster. You can call that money-grubbing or watering down the game all you want, but I prefer a system that keeps me wanting to play longer. You will get flying after we have exhausted 7.0 content and chances are we won't be able to fly in Thal'Danath come 7.2 even if you have pathfinder.

[Deleted]

So many whiners. I'm glad they are sticking to their guns. People complaining about getting revered. Jesus fucking christ none of you actually want to play the game do you? You just want to log in and fly around hurp durp

Like they stuck to their guns with the flight in WoD? They never have and never will. They will however, like they always have, bend over instantly when there's a slightest sub loss or a community uproar over anything. Because it's all about the bottom line. Or maybe they just don't care anymore after everybody left already during WoD.

[Saiona]

Like they stuck do their guns with the flight in WoD?

Putting it in later in the expansion's life cycle was a fair compromise. I mean WoD sucked ass regardless though. I am fine with flying after we are done with 7.0 and then I imagine we wont be flying in the new 7.2 zone kinda like Throne of Thunder and Timeless Isles

[SirCowdog]

Putting it in later in the expansion's life cycle was a fair compromise.

Every time I read something like this it immediately identifies the person as not having any idea what they're talking about.

What exactly was fair about it? We went from paying gold at level cap to having to play the entire expansion without flight, then having to grind a pile of garbage to unlock flight AFTER all the content was already cleared. It would be like withholding all your raid drops and gear, then giving it to you only after you finished the final raid. What a joke.

Also, what part of this was a compromise? Blizzard got everything they wanted for the entire lifespan of the development process. No-flying all the way until the final patch of the expansion. They gave up nothing! And by all the information we have so far, Legion is looking to be the same thing.

[Deleted]

Going by past Blizzard comments on the removal/changes/whatever of things for "not feeling fun" on a wide variety of issues, I get the impression the dev team go entirely by what they find fun in a game. Shouldn't the failure of WoD kinda point to the game being made through a small group of peoples scope of fun, rather than previous expacs where the scope was larger?

Don't get me wrong, I would hope they didn't develop the game this way, but honestly, to me, this current crop seem to be just the right mix of arrogant and stubborn that they KNOW they are right, they just have to force people playing to agree.

I'm primarily talking about how WoD was designed btw. I would agree that Legion is looking kinda bad if some of the assorted grinds are as gated as some beta posters are reporting. More and more like a mobile game where you have daily or half daily bonuses just for doing stuff, then your free to log out and do w/e. Feels hollow to me.

Well they should be doing someting which is fun to them if the result would be better because they have a stronger commitment to it. Alas, the result - WoD as we know it - had not been better than any previous expansion.

The other thing is, you can design a product as you like it, but if you want to sell it, especiall if you also want to hold a playerbase, you should be considering their wants and needs as well. You can make a totally artsy game, but if it will not sell except to some niche audience, then you surely will not get out much from your time and effort invested. You can do something like that as an artist or hobby artist who does not depend on the income generated by such creations, but if you are a company, you have to generate income to be able to pay your staff, and any other fixed and variable costs. They can afford to push their vision to some degree because of many die-hard fans of the game (also because there are some people here who have invested 10 or more years into the game and probably cannot part with it that easily), but if they totally contradict their playerbase, they will go down.

[SirCowdog]

Doing quests and obtaining rep is not excessive.

But withholding flight until the end of the expansion IS. Don't try to downplay it.

[Saiona]

Every time I read something like this it immediately identifies the person as not having any idea what they're talking about.

What exactly was fair about it? We went from paying gold at level cap to having to play the entire expansion without flight, then having to grind a pile of garbage to unlock flight AFTER all the content was already cleared. It would be like withholding all your raid drops and gear, then giving it to you only after you finished the final raid. What a joke.

Flying is not content why are you comparing it to a whole raid (big content) lol? It isn't your game. You aren't the one developing it. I gave my reasons why I like delayed flying and I believe it will make Legion last longer and feel better. WoD was dogshit with or without flying. Clearly they abandoned WoD mid development and put all their apples into Legion. I mean the content difference in the 2 is vast.

[SirCowdog]

The fact that you have flying available to you is already more than you can ask for. If you don't understand that, why not ask how Legacy people feel for not being able to play Vanilla. Unlocking an achievement is better than not having the option at all.

The difference is that WoW hasn't had the vanilla experience since the moment TBC launched. Flying has been in the game since the moment TBC launched. Vanilla legacy players are asking for something that hasn't existed for a solid decade. Flying players are asking for something they've HAVE had for nearly a decade.

I feel your pain about wanting a Vanilla server, but the comparison is way off.

[Deleted]

What I want is what I've outlined in this threads before - a quest line tailored to why we can't fly and that thematically makes sense as to how we get flight back. Something like "We cannot take to the air because of the massive amount of fel magic the Legion incursion has released. You, hero need to (gather things, destroy Legion emplacements, etc)" You then do that for a series of quests that coincidentally take you all over the zones. Once done, we cast a spell or something and voila we can fly. That's the right way. WoD pathfinder was bullshit not because it was hard, but it was obvious that the team just kept adding things until everyone was OK with it. What do treasures or reps have to do with why we can't fly? Nothing.

"But that's a lot of one time content!!!!"

So what? They don't HAVE to choose to delay flight. If they're going to, they least they can do is give us good, interesting content to do in order to regain it.

This would be the best way to handle this whole thing if we are not able to unlock flight with buying the skill. It is a meaningful approach, it is based on some kind of lore, and it is an accomplishment which has a direct impact on your world and you style of play. I still would prefer buying flight (because I have already spent at least a quarter of a million gold on flying skills alone, not counting the gold for mounts (some I bought multiple times before they have become account-wide), and cash in the shop), but such type of unlocking flight would definitely be a good thing.

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Flying is not content why are you comparing it to a whole raid (big content) lol? It isn't your game. You aren't the one developing it. I gave my reasons why I like delayed flying and I believe it will make Legion last longer and feel better. WoD was dogshit with or without flying. Clearly they abandoned WoD mid development and put all their apples into Legion. I mean the content difference in the 2 is vast.

Flying is part of world content. Netherwing or Cloud Serpent races, access to farming points or quest qubs not accessible on the ground, even the flying jousting of Cata are all content which is possible with flying.

[Saiona]

This would be the best way to handle this whole thing if we are not able to unlock flight with buying the skill. It is a meaningful approach, it is based on some kind of lore, and it is an accomplishment which has a direct impact on your world and you style of play. I still would prefer buying flight (because I have already spent at least a quarter of a million gold on flying skills alone, not counting the gold for mounts (some I bought multiple times before they have become account-wide), and cash in the shop), but such type of unlocking flight would definitely be a good thing.- - - Updated - - -

Jousting in cata was awful more like flapping then falling. I will give you netherwing races I had fun with those back in the day. Legion is built around ground content it seems so flying doesn't fit with any of the content. So in Legion we cannot call flying content. Just gotta wait man. I really don't see how thread got to 300 pages.

Flying is part of world content. Netherwing or Cloud Serpent races, access to farming points or quest qubs not accessible on the ground, even the flying jousting of Cata are all content which is possible with flying

[Deleted]

Jousting in cata was awful more like flapping then falling. I will give you netherwing races I had fun with those back in the day. Legion is built around ground content it seems so flying doesn't fit with any of the content. So in Legion we cannot call flying content. Just gotta wait man. I really don't see how thread got to 300 pages.

Flying is part of world content. Netherwing or Cloud Serpent races, access to farming points or quest qubs not accessible on the ground, even the flying jousting of Cata are all content which is possible with flying

The other thing with flying and open world, what all people seem to forget: The MMO world has to be held in a "usable" status by respawns of mobs, of nodes, of quest objectives. This is necessary because different players are in a different stage of progression, and there is more or less a constant influx of characters who still need someting to accomplish an objective (either new players / slower progressing players or alt characters of players, who have already done this content on any other character). But for the single character (or the player with alts), things end up in repetition fast. Flying is a great tool to combat the fatigue which arises from such repetition (like killing mobs over and over, which should be dead already because you have killed them at some point of the story before), because it allows you to skip irrelevant things. It has its function as a compromise to prevent burn-out.

And especially for people who like flying, and who steer the mounts of their character all the time (I find it rather enjoyable, because I can pretend that my character is doing some kind of maneuver or is moving with the winds or whatever, you know, roleplaying stuff), flying adds a new level of enjoyment in the game, which turns a necessary evil (travelling to a quest area) into a good experience. Having the possibility of reaching new vistas is also a bonus. There are many people out there who not only like to appreciate the world from the ground, but also in the air.

[Saiona]

The other thing with flying and open world, what all people seem to forget: The MMO world has to be held in a "usable" status by respawns of mobs, of nodes, of quest objectives. This is necessary because different players are in a different stage of progression, and there is more or less a constant influx of characters who still need someting to accomplish an objective (either new players / slower progressing players or alt characters of players, who have already done this content on any other character). But for the single character (or the player with alts), things end up in repetition fast. Flying is a great tool to combat the fatigue which arises from such repetition (like killing mobs over and over, which should be dead already because you have killed them at some point of the story before), because it allows you to skip irrelevant things. It has its function as a compromise to prevent burn-out.

And especially for people who like flying, and who steer the mounts of their character all the time (I find it rather enjoyable, because I can pretend that my character is doing some kind of maneuver or is moving with the winds or whatever, you know, roleplaying stuff), flying adds a new level of enjoyment in the game, which turns a necessary evil (travelling to a quest area) into a good experience. Having the possibility of reaching new vistas is also a bonus. There are many people out there who not only like to appreciate the world from the ground, but also in the air.

So what if they made flying available via gold, but it was only 60% speed. That was the original flight speed I had for most of BC until the end. Would that not fulfill your desires?

[rda]

So what if they made flying available via gold, but it was only 60% speed. That was the original flight speed I had for most of BC until the end. Would that not fulfill your desires?

Answering for myself: no (and let's stop these idiotic attempts at a "compromise" which boil down to "you like flying? well, we don't, so please give away half of it just because").

[Saiona]

Answering for myself: no (and let's stop these idiotic attempts at a "compromise" which boil down to "you like flying? well, we don't, so please give away half of it just because").

Ok people who have no interest in compromising are probably people Blizzard Devs really don't bother to listen to. Neither will I.

[rda]

Ok people who have no interest in compromising are probably people Blizzard Devs really don't bother to listen to. Neither will I.

Here, I propose a compromise. You are paying $15 per month for a sub, right. Well, I think you should pay $5 more to me personally. Just because. What, you don't agree? Well, that just shows that you have no interest in compromising. I am standing right there and am ready to drop my number from $5 to $4.95, yet you aren't willing to talk, which means you are just unreasonable.

[Saiona]

Here, I propose a compromise. You are paying $15 per month for a sub, right. Well, I think you should pay $5 more to me personally. Just because. What, you don't agree? Well, that just shows that you have no interest in compromising. I am standing right there and am ready to drop my number from $5 to $4.95, yet you aren't willing to talk, which means you are just unreasonable.

That doesn't make any sense. We both pay 15 dollars a month to Blizzard and they deserve to hear feedback from both of us. You are all "flying at 280% speed with gold cost at lv 110 OR WE RIOT". Then here I am a player who pays the same amount you do trying to find a way the community could agree on flying. So fuck me continue your crusade and not get heard. 7 million people did not quit because of flying. They quit because WoD was dogshit.

[Deleted]

Here, I propose a compromise. You are paying $15 per month for a sub, right. Well, I think you should pay $5 more to me personally. Just because. What, you don't agree? Well, that just shows that you have no interest in compromising. I am standing right there and am ready to drop my number from $5 to $4.95, yet you aren't willing to talk, which means you are just unreasonable.

You are now using an offtopic and downright idiotic reasoning of compromise. You cant argue a realistic comprimise such as say you cant fly at the the start but we'll will give you aviannas feather for short bursts of flight instead, and then come out with some bullshit counter like people have to pay you money cos reasons cos herpderp its the same thing when that has absolutlely fuck all to do with the discussion, isnt even a compromise since you arent giving anything of worth back.

[rda]

That doesn't make any sense. We both pay 15 dollars a month to Blizzard and they deserve to hear feedback from both of us. You are all "flying at 280% speed with gold cost at lv 110 OR WE RIOT". Then here I am a player who pays the same amount you do trying to find a way the community could agree on flying. So fuck me continue your crusade and not get heard. 7 million people did not quit because of flying. They quit because WoD was dogshit.

I agree that they quit mostly because WoD was bad, but I am sure no flying contributed to that.

I also don't care about you, we have that in common. You can continue posting your stupid "compromises", the difference between you and me is that you aren't going to be "heard", while I will be - proof: reversal of no flying in WoD. Because I actually have a case and you don't.

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You are now using an offtopic and downright idiotic reasoning of compromise. You cant argue a realistic comprimise such as say you cant fly at the the start but we'll will give you aviannas feather for short bursts of flight instead, and then come out with some bullshit counter like people have to pay you money cos reasons cos herpderp its the same thing when that has absolutlely fuck all to do with the discussion, isnt even a compromise since you arent giving anything of worth back.

Google the word "analogy". I am glad you noticed that the "compromise" I proposed was idiotic, the original "compromise" was similarly idiotic, that was the point of my post.

[wing5wong]

having to grind a pile of garbage

Playing the game you mean yea?

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But withholding flight until the end of the expansion IS. Don't try to downplay it.

Ive never said that is not the case

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even the flying jousting of Cata are all content which is possible with flying.

You actually want that back.
UGHHHHHH

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(like killing mobs over and over, which should be dead already because you have killed them at some point of the story before), because it allows you to skip irrelevant things. It has its function as a compromise to prevent burn-out.

This has to be a joke, right?

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Answering for myself: no (and let's stop these idiotic attempts at a "compromise" which boil down to "you like flying? well, we don't, so please give away half of it just because").

Its not an acceptable solution because it doesnt do what you want: remove travel time and "inconvenience" by making it more efficient to travel by land

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Google the word "analogy". I am glad you noticed that the "compromise" I proposed was idiotic, the original "compromise" was similarly idiotic, that was the point of my post.

Except the original proposal is not idiotic, it just doesnt meet your demands