No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Connll]

There was a slight majority in WoW-East when they were announcing the subs separately but the quarterly sub reports have said they're mostly losing numbers from the East so it could be very slightly more or even less by now. China also went monthly subs instead of hourly in the beginning of August.

OK, thanks.

[Hexxidecimal]

More like telling a painter to go back to doing the dynamic pin up art that they were doing only a little while ago. Keep in mind that what I'm talking about is just making the content not break when someone comes along with a flying mount. I'd agree with you if we were talking about having actual, real flying content, however.

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Ahh I thought that is what you were implying, real flying content. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Sorry, I know it's a gross cut-down of your post, but this one sentence sums up the fundamental problem with a LOT of Blizzard's approach to the game lately. There is a distinct LACK of this type of gating. Instead of presenting a game full of challenges and obstacles that a player can sink their teeth into and work on, they've decided to, more and more, rely on an arbitrary time-based unlock that is 100% out of the players' hands.

I know that people will say that it's part of the nature of an MMO to have such things. But it is entirely possible to go overboard on it.

I already feel like legion is more balanced. Not entirely balanced of course, but better than WoD, at least in regards to most non flying content. The obvious gated stuff currently is some rep and flying, maybe raids if you count those. I don't. I suppose you could count the order hall quests but honestly you start them then you go level. 99% of the order hall stuff is done when your busy getting to 110 anyway. Most everything I want to do I can do from the outset. Also, and I am not defending time gating but I feel like part of the reason they do that is because players can consume content waaaaaaay faster than they can create it. So the reason is not arbitrary. It's there specifically to bottle neck us. Which sucks. I wish they would develop a better way to combat this issue. I don't have any suggestions though.

[rebecca191]

That's kind of the point of the zone, it's the enemy's main city, of course it will be heavily guarded and hard to move around for a solo player.

Suramar is probably one of the main reason why flying is not available at launch.

They could have just disabled it longer in that zone , and unlocked it in other zones, if that was their reason. Regardless, it wasn't fun for me and I really suggest anyone who already dislikes no flying shouldn't buy Legion at launch. When it is faster to just die twice rather than kill mobs on the way to an area because there is no road, I don't think that is enjoyable game design. Daze mechanic can go die in a fire too. I am honestly even dreading doing that zone's achievement in the future, but I suppose there will probably be higher ilvl catch up gear at that point.

[Sluvs]

It's amazing that this thread is still alive.

[Mafic]

...Flying isn't going to make artifact grind faster...at least not by a huge margin (not even 5% tbh). Seems like you have no idea what you're talking about. Doesn't surprise me though.

You are apparently not in the alpha/beta.

World quests and emissary quests slow you done by traveling to do them. With flying your time traveling to do these for order hall resources is cut in half.

Thanks for showing everyone in this thread that you jump in head first without realizing what is being discussed and what has already been discussed. Thank you!

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It's amazing that this thread is still alive.

The other thread stayed alive because new players came into the pro flying mold as the months dragged on and then the surprise announcement. Legion is going to be more swift, sudden and brutal for the devs once players are aware of the patchfinder requirements for Legion.

[Sluvs]

You are apparently not in the alpha/beta.

World quests and emissary quests slow you done by traveling to do them. With flying your time traveling to do these for order hall resources is cut in half.

Thanks for showing everyone in this thread that you jump in head first without realizing what is being discussed and what has already been discussed. Thank you!

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The other thread stayed alive because new players came into the pro flying mold as the months dragged on and then the surprise announcement. Legion is going to be more swift, sudden and brutal for the devs once players are aware of the patchfinder requirements for Legion.

People are already aware of it. Legion flying should be smoother than the draenor flying, simple because they have a plan laid out and more experience in the subject.

[Mafic]

People are already aware of it. Legion flying should be smoother than the draenor flying, simple because they have a plan laid out and more experience in the subject.

No people are not fully aware of the massive rep grind for patchfinder part one that awaits them.

And it is clear the plan is to agitate players as much as possible and only overturn if there is a massive outcry. For example, zoom nerf, legion xp nerf, talent restrictions, etc.

[Sluvs]

And it is clear the plan is to agitate players as much as possible and only overturn if there is a massive outcry. For example, zoom nerf, legion xp nerf, talent restrictions, etc.

That it's not clear at all. Actually all examples that you gave show that they are listening to player feedback, which i think it's a good thing.

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And because they said that the biggest part of the achievement will be do-able at legion's launch.

[Connll]

No people are not fully aware of the massive rep grind for patchfinder part one that awaits them.

And it is clear the plan is to agitate players as much as possible and only overturn if there is a massive outcry. For example, zoom nerf, legion xp nerf, talent restrictions, etc.

Talent restrictions? Care to elaborate?

[Mafic]

That it's not clear at all. Actually all examples that you gave show that they are listening to player feedback, which i think it's a good thing.

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And because they said that the biggest part of the achievement will be do-able at legion's launch.

They didn't listen to player feedback before going through dumb heade decisions...they reverted the changes when the complaining reached fever pitch. Same thing will happen with Legion flying as it happened in WoD flying.

Want another example? Shadow Dance bar change when most Rogues told them don't do it but they went through with it. With enough complaining they finally caved.

Blizzard only listens to feedback that is based on pressure/player pushback and lost subs. That's it.

The biggest part of the achievement doable at launch? There is a reason why it is called part 1 and it entails massive rep grinds along with other silly requirements.

No you can not do most of the achievement at launch because you are only doing part one which will take a while to complete on its own. Don't fall for Blizzard's buzzwords designed to obfuscate from what is really going on.

[Sluvs]

Talent restrictions? Care to elaborate?

He probably means that you can only change your talents in a rest area.

[Mafic]

Talent restrictions? Care to elaborate?

They originally wanted talents to only be changed in peace zones. Players revolted and they decided to add something that scribes could make allowing talent changes in dungeons.

Preach covered an entire video how the talent system came full circle and how it was superfluous to make such changes.

[Sluvs]

They didn't listen to player feedback before going through dumb heade decisions...they reverted the changes when the complaining reached fever pitch. Same thing will happen with Legion flying as it happened in WoD flying.


Okay, so let me get this straight. You are saying that they responding to player feedback and changing things that the playerbase did not like it, it's not actually listening to players feedback? And you want the players to give feedback on something that never happened? That doesn't not make sense at all

Want another example? Shadow Dance bar change when most Rogues told them don't do it but they went through with it. With enough complaining they finally caved.

Well, good example, they didn't change something, the player base brought to their attention and then they changed it. You make it sound like people were wuitting over it. When it was just a simple part of game design, design it, test it, get feedback, repeat process. That it's not a bad thing.

Blizzard only listens to feedback that is based on pressure/player pushback and lost subs. That's it.

That's is clear. So what? every company does that and it's no a bad thing at all.

The biggest part of the achievement doable at launch? There is a reason why it is called part 1 and it entails massive rep grinds along with other silly requirements.

No you can not do most of the achievement at launch because you are only doing part one which will take a while to complete on its own. Don't fall for Blizzard's buzzwords designed to obfuscate from what is really going on.

Yes you can. They already said that part one is the biggest part of it, and part one is do-able when legion hits. So yeah, you saying that you can't do it at launch is at best speculation, at worst misinformation. Please, no speculation or conspiracy theories about what is REALLY going on because you have no proof whatsoever.

My answer are bolded. How can you make player feedback and responding to it sound bad it's beyond me. Anyway, this wont be like wod because they alreayd have the plan laid out. They already have the achv for you to complete, something that they did not have on wod. They reached a good compromise i believe.

[Mafic]

They did change Shadow Dance bar by removing it completely where you couldn't even access it with stance macros. Only when players voiced feedback did they revert it.

Player told them not to go through with it and they said most players would be okay with it they were proven wrong.

Edit: There is no speculation on my part, because implying Part 1 is the biggest part of the achievement is speculation on your part. Projection much?

There is a reason why it is called part 1 and to imply most of it is the achievement is the height of hubris.

[4dahorde]

been a few days since I have been here, and just as I expected..the same couple of people who have set up shop here and do nothing but quote other peoples posts and try to tell them how wrong they are. Then when you make a point back at them, they only answer with a question. Which in turn results in more post quoting and how you are wrong.

Some people act like flying is the end all be all of this game. Nothing is going to change their minds..even typing out page long posts explaining things in detail, how their ideas on flying are flawed. They will instead only point out that your idea is also flawed. never ending cycle that gets nowhere.

Blizzard has made their decision on flying...play the game or don't. Back and forth arguements where nothing new is ever stated and everything is "I am right and you are wrong"......NOTHING IN THIS ENTIRE POST IS ANYTHING OTHER THAN AN OPINION.

Looking at the majority of posts on MMO-C...they are nearly ALL nothing but whiny ass arguements about something in a game, that make ZERO difference in the real world..yet you all continue to argue, call names, and force your opinion down someone elses throat. There is rarely ever an intelligent conversation that lasts more then a few pages.

Game forums are the cancer of the gaming community.

You all stay here and beat your heads on the wall trying to convince someone else your opinion is the only one that matters and the only one that is correct. I for one am done. Forums are nothing but hate fueled back and forth, beating a dead horse, arguements, this has been the same arguement for over a year..and guess what...you have flying...if it is not HOW you wanted it, then go fucking somewhere else. If you think so shitty on Blizzard and the content they put..go the fuck away. All you people do is spread hate, lies, and assumptions. You give nothing positive to the community.

[Connll]

You all stay here and beat your heads on the wall trying to convince someone else your opinion is the only one that matters and the only one that is correct. I for one am done.

Goodbye and thanks for the free bump.

Forums are nothing but hate fueled back and forth, beating a dead horse, arguements, this has been the same arguement for over a year..and guess what...you have flying...if it is not HOW you wanted it, then go fucking somewhere else. If you think so shitty on Blizzard and the content they put..go the fuck away. All you people do is spread hate, lies, and assumptions. You give nothing positive to the community.

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Well, your post was certainly material adequate for a My Little Pony episode. I can smell the friendship and rainbows already!

[Sluvs]

They did change Shadow Dance bar by removing it completely where you couldn't even access it with stance macros. Only when players voiced feedback did they revert it.

Player told them not to go through with it and they said most players would be okay with it they were proven wrong.

Edit: There is no speculation on my part, because implying Part 1 is the biggest part of the achievement is speculation on your part. Projection much?

There is a reason why it is called part 1 and to imply most of it is the achievement is the height of hubris.

There is speculation on your part. They said that and it was posted like 10 pages ago.

Also, to know if it's going to work or not, you have to test it. The player base tested. they received feedback, they changed it. The players were right. Whats the problem with that?

I think things looks good. You don't think so, I would like to know why.

Also, i genuinely curious, I dont have any horse in this race because i believe both sides have viable arguments. So i'm not trying to pull the rug on you or anything

[Hexxidecimal]

They did change Shadow Dance bar by removing it completely where you couldn't even access it with stance macros. Only when players voiced feedback did they revert it.

Player told them not to go through with it and they said most players would be okay with it they were proven wrong.

Edit: There is no speculation on my part, because implying Part 1 is the biggest part of the achievement is speculation on your part. Projection much?

There is a reason why it is called part 1 and to imply most of it is the achievement is the height of hubris.

Okay I want to clarify a few things. Firstly my understanding of your argument and then your understanding of something.

Firstly, the Shadow Dance Bar. You are correct in that they made it so it was no longer accessible. They thought this was a good idea. Rogues gave feedback, saying this sucks change it back. Blizzard did. Assuming you aren't refuting any of my points here, this is how feed back works. It's not like Blizzard communicates there idea before implementing them (most of the time). They make a change, only then can we give feed back accurate feed back. I am not sure how this is a bad thing. Hell I am not sure if you are saying it is even.

Secondly you said

There is no speculation on my part, because implying Part 1 is the biggest part of the achievement is speculation on your part. Projection much?

It's not speculation. Watcher has stated that part 1 is the bulk of the achievement.

Lastly I am wholly unconvinced that this sort of implementation of flying is going to impact things like you think it will. Neither of us have any sort of proof of anything. We can point to things that happened, like the mega loss of subs that happened during WoD, but to say that was due to flying is at best confirmation bias. We could both sit here and say. "Uh huh" and "Nuh Uh" at each other all day. You don't have proof that it was that way, I don't have proof that it wasn't. I could maybe be semantic about it the whole thing and say "well since you're the one who is making a claim that sub loss happened because of lack of flying then the burden of proof is on you" but that isn't really useful here either.

The best you could do is point out they eventually implemented flying via pathfinder. However if you do then you also have to realize that version of pathfinder that is coming in legion isn't much different.

As far as the "massive" rep grind, it's all tied to shit you'll be doing anyway. Getting AP in Suramar? You'll get Rep. Doing Emissary quests? You'll be getting Rep. Doing world quest for gear? You'll be getting rep. There are very few, only for rep quests that actually exist in beta at the moment. Or very few that I have seen anyway.

[Mafic]

There is speculation on your part. They said that and it was posted like 10 pages ago.

Speculation that I point that there is more than a part 1 for patchfinder? Okay. Moving on.

Also, to know if it's going to work or not, you have to test it. The player base tested. they received feedback, they changed it. The players were right. Whats the problem with that?

Do you need to remove two wheels from a car to figure out the car will not work? The removal of Shadow Dance paging did not need to be "tested". There is a reason why it was already tested in WotLK Beta nearly a decade ago and introduced. What Blizzard was "testing" to see how much bullshit Sub Rogues would tolerate, because Blizz removed Shadow Dance paging so Sub Rogues would have more "buttons" to bind. If that isn't a textbook reason why Legion pruning is a bad idea or I do not know what is.

I think things looks good. You don't think so, I would like to know why.

Also, i genuinely curious, I dont have any horse in this race because i believe both sides have viable arguments. So i'm not trying to pull the rug on you or anything

No flyers lost the viable argument with WoD's design.

[MoanaLisa]

If people want to discuss the Shadow Bar do it in the Rogue Forum. It has zilch/zero to do with flying.